I'm looking at trying to stream line and go with one factory bullet (or bullet weight) to be able to handle the two main jobs of....
1. Most importantly able to handle black bears for protection and put them down fast.
2. Deer hunting. I don't know if a good bear protection bullet and good deer bullet can be compatible in the same job.
Now advice on what factory loads could handle such criteria would be mostly and greatly helpful for me. Oh I'll be using a Glock 40. I got barrels for lead bullets also.
I don't have brown bears around here, and I only shoot bears only if I have to. Like if they don't want the food pack or other food and ignore it and are intent on me. I have lost LOTS of food packs to bears over the years and I'm still here, so I guess letting them have it worked out for me.
Underwood 200 grain offerings would be my suggestions. 200 gr cast WFN or the 200 XTP... The solid cast bullets should yield deeper penetration to possible exits depending on the bullet encountering heavy bone or softer tissues...
For those two jobs my recommendation would be:
Buffalo Bore 155gr TAC-XP
Underwood 200gr XTP
I'd be very comfortable with either of those choices and had
excellent results with.
Other options I wouldn't be least bit afraid to go with:
Underwood 180gr XTP
Sig Sauer 180gr JHP
Hornady 180gr XTP JHP
Federal 180gr Bonded
Underwood 115gr Xtreme Defense
Underwood 200gr WFN Hard Cast - Gonna leave entrance and exit wound.
remember to get an instant "stop" on any living organism you need to shut down the central nervous system.
So if the threat is real and you are in mortal danger hit or central nervous system hits are nessecery to stop that threat instantly.
So practice practice practice under high stress conditions the response should be born from muscle memory and expereince gleaned from training.
For my money, you will have a hard time beating a 200 grain flat nose cast from 12-15 BHN lead. Penetrates deep, cuts nice holes for good bleed. Downside is they are hard to find in factory loads.
Underwood 200gr XTPs. Nuffs said.
Thanks people!
I been wondering what ones would work and such, then I remembered to ask people who know!
One of my main reasons for getting my 10mm besides wanting one for ever and ever and ever and ever, was for deer hunting and feral dogs. The later are the main problem that has only been some what controlled with the local wolf population rise. Another thing that I saw last deer season was cougar that the DNR says don't exist that was in the old farm yard area, it looked BIG but healthy so it probably should be no worry.
Underwood 200 or 220 grain hard cast is what I would use.
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Absolutely 😊
I would recommend the Underwood loading of the Lehigh Defense Xtreme Penetrators. The 140gr XPs come out of my Glock 20 in the low 1500s. They penetrate on par with 200gr hard casts with better weight retention on hard targets. I have taken a mule deer with my Glock and the wound cavity through the heart looked consistent the to that of ones shot in gel.
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Quote from: Mike D on January 09 2019 07:03:56 AM MST
Underwood 200 or 220 grain hard cast is what I would use.
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+1
Quote from: CrawldaBeast on January 11 2019 08:55:33 PM MST
I would recommend the Underwood loading of the Lehigh Defense Xtreme Penetrators. The 140gr XPs come out of my Glock 20 in the low 1500s. They penetrate on par with 200gr hard casts with better weight retention on hard targets. I have taken a mule deer with my Glock and the wound cavity through the heart looked consistent the to that of ones shot in gel.
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Those Xtreme Snakeoil pills just dont cut the mustard. OP, the hardest will out penetrate the "Xtreme (Under)Penetrators" 3:1. Not to mention, the weight comparison is like car crashes. If you were getting T-Boned at a 4 way intersection, would your rather be hit by a Sportbike going 100 mph or a Semi with trailer running 50 mph ?
Quote from: Overkill338 on January 12 2019 05:54:24 PM MST
Quote from: CrawldaBeast on January 11 2019 08:55:33 PM MST
I would recommend the Underwood loading of the Lehigh Defense Xtreme Penetrators. The 140gr XPs come out of my Glock 20 in the low 1500s. They penetrate on par with 200gr hard casts with better weight retention on hard targets. I have taken a mule deer with my Glock and the wound cavity through the heart looked consistent the to that of ones shot in gel.
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Those Xtreme Snakeoil pills just dont cut the mustard. OP, the hardest will out penetrate the "Xtreme (Under)Penetrators" 3:1. Not to mention, the weight comparison is like car crashes. If you were getting T-Boned at a 4 way intersection, would your rather be hit by a Sportbike going 100 mph or a Semi with trailer running 50 mph ?
Funny, that you say that. I did tests between the XPs and the hard casts going through hard targets. The XPs lose less than 5 grains of weight. The 200gr hard casts lose about 90 grains. So which one is the motorcycle supposed to be?
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Quote from: Overkill338 on January 12 2019 05:54:24 PM MST
Those Xtreme Snakeoil pills just dont cut the mustard. OP, the hardest will out penetrate the "Xtreme (Under)Penetrators" 3:1. Not to mention, the weight comparison is like car crashes. If you were getting T-Boned at a 4 way intersection, would your rather be hit by a Sportbike going 100 mph or a Semi with trailer running 50 mph ?
The hyperbole and false equivalency aside. A good 200gr to 220gr Hard Cast will certainly out penetrate the Underwood Xtreme lines but the 3:1 ratio business is provably inaccurate. This question has been conclusively resolved by member(s) here and the information is easy to find on this forum. Not that it matters in the slightest with respect to the original question posed by the OP.
The OP was asking for a single factory recommendation for two specific jobs (medium sized game hunting & Black Bear defense). There are any number of factory offerings in 10mm which will do an excellent job in those two jobs (Hard cast & Xtreme lines certainly among them). Lots of excellent ammunition options in 10mm that'll make a deer or black bear very dead if the shooter does his or her part and puts them where they need to go. The great thing is the ammo choice list gets bigger all the time.
Not sure if the Glock 40 factory barrel had the same problems as Glock 20 factory barrel with 220gr Underwood Hard Cast and it's tendency to not destabilize the projectile which often allowed bullet to keyhole. Not that great an outcome for either job OP seeking a solution for. At any rate Glock itself advises against shooting hard cast in their polygonal rifled barrels.
Right on the money, Thanks Rojo!
The Dumb OP said Glock 40. ;D
Quote from: Rojo27 on January 12 2019 09:09:08 PM MST
Quote from: Overkill338 on January 12 2019 05:54:24 PM MST
Those Xtreme Snakeoil pills just dont cut the mustard. OP, the hardest will out penetrate the "Xtreme (Under)Penetrators" 3:1. Not to mention, the weight comparison is like car crashes. If you were getting T-Boned at a 4 way intersection, would your rather be hit by a Sportbike going 100 mph or a Semi with trailer running 50 mph ?
The hyperbole and false equivalency aside. A good 200gr to 220gr Hard Cast will certainly out penetrate the Underwood Xtreme lines but the 3:1 ratio business is provably inaccurate. This question has been conclusively resolved by member(s) here and the information is easy to find on this forum. Not that it matters in the slightest with respect to the original question posed by the OP.
The OP was asking for a single factory recommendation for two specific jobs (medium sized game hunting & Black Bear defense). There are any number of factory offerings in 10mm which will do an excellent job in those two jobs (Hard cast & Xtreme lines certainly among them). Lots of excellent ammunition options in 10mm that'll make a deer or black bear very dead if the shooter does his or her part and puts them where they need to go. The great thing is the ammo choice list gets bigger all the time.
Not sure if the Glock 40 factory barrel had the same problems as Glock 20 factory barrel with 220gr Underwood Hard Cast and it's tendency to not destabilize the projectile which often allowed bullet to keyhole. Not that great an outcome for either job OP seeking a solution for. At any rate Glock itself advises against shooting hard cast in their polygonal rifled barrels.
The 3:1 was just overstating my point with a bit of sarcasm. Most of the folks that have already spent money on the xtreme this and that will defend them to the death. They will fade away though.
Rojo, I'm curious as well about if the 220 will stabilize in a G40. I would think it's more about twist rate than barrel length, wouldnt you?
Quote from: Overkill338 on January 20 2019 07:36:52 PM MST
Rojo, I'm curious as well about if the 220 will stabilize in a G40. I would think it's more about twist rate than barrel length, wouldnt you?
Hey Overkill,
I honestly don't know if the barrel length of the G40 helps it stabilize the hardcast better than G20 or not. The twist rate would logically make sense but I don't know what that is in G20 vs. G40 or any of the other pistols that seem to be able to stabilize the heaviest hardcast bullets. The polygonal rifling that Glock uses could also be the culprit. I'll defer to others here more informed than I on the physics of internal & external ballistics.
Quote from: Rojo27 on January 21 2019 04:59:10 PM MST
Quote from: Overkill338 on January 20 2019 07:36:52 PM MST
Rojo, I'm curious as well about if the 220 will stabilize in a G40. I would think it's more about twist rate than barrel length, wouldnt you?
Hey Overkill,
I honestly don't know if the barrel length of the G40 helps it stabilize the hardcast better than G20 or not. The twist rate would logically make sense but I don't know what that is in G20 vs. G40 or any of the other pistols that seem to be able to stabilize the heaviest hardcast bullets. The polygonal rifling that Glock uses could also be the culprit. I'll defer to others here more informed than I on the physics of internal & external ballistics.
Stock Glock 20 and 29 barrels are 1 in 9.84". So I guess it is the length.
Actually, it would be the extra velocity the length imparts.
Length, twist rate and speed are all factors. Assuming the same twist rate, a barrel half as long only rotates the bullet half as much over (roughly) half the time. The rotational force ends when the bullet exits the barrel.
It's illustrated well in .38s. A .38 snubbie may struggle to stabilize 158gr bullets and a 6" .38 may shoot them like a tack driver. Both may work great with 125s.
Sqlbullet isn't wrong, though. Traveling faster through the same twist increases the revolutions as the time factor is decreased. There is a point of diminishing return there if you run out of barrel to impart that spin.
Since black bear attacks are fantastically uncommon, and black bears are not particularly hard to kill, I'd recommend the OP concentrate on whatever cartridge they think will work best for deer. Whatever that is will be MORE than enough to deal with any bear issue.
If it's accurate out of the OP's gun, I'd look no further than the Federal Trophy Bonded 180 grain.
Quote from: sqlbullet on January 22 2019 08:27:55 AM MST
Actually, it would be the extra velocity the length imparts.
So a 4.6" Glock has issues with the 220gr hardcast but similar barrel length 10mm like the Tanfolio don't?
Hadn't heard same issue plaguing 5" 1911 pistols. Does it?
Quote from: Roguer on January 08 2019 12:03:43 AM MST
Thanks people!
One of my main reasons for getting my 10mm besides wanting one for ever and ever and ever and ever, was for deer hunting and feral dogs. The later are the main problem that has only been some what controlled with the local wolf population rise. Another thing that I saw last deer season was cougar that the DNR says don't exist that was in the old farm yard area, it looked BIG but healthy so it probably should be no worry.
You sound like you are in MI. Rouger. I have a DNR friend who for a long time would privately admit the cougars were in MI., but publicly the DNR STILL won't make those confirmations it seems....
if it walks like a duck...
(https://www.michigan.gov/images/dnr/cougar_636904_7.jpg)
:)) MI resident myself. Always got a chuckle out of the DNR's position on this. Dead deer parts and cougar tracks on the Lake Superior shoreline and lots of sightings for the last 20 years = nothing to see here people. Just misidentification caused by big house cats.......... ;)
Lots of state DNR's don't acknowledge the presence of certain non-native species. It is for political and budgetary reasons. If they acknowledge the cats presence officially, then they are legally required to produce documentation and planning for how to manage the species. That can be a very large monetary and workload burden on an already under-funded department. So, as a result, they have policies that allow them to not list a species until certain thresholds are met.
Almost all of the valid cougar sightings in MI are in the upper peninsula. The economy there is heavily tourist dependent. They won't acknowledge cougars there until one eats somebody. They don't want to scare off anyone from spending their money up there and they don't want to draw any ill intentioned people who may want to shoot one. Our DNR, while they don't acknowledge their existence officially, have made it know many times that it is illegal to shoot them.......
In the last ten years we've had some other interesting non native cats loose in southeastern MI :) At least one leopard and a tiger that was running around the Detroit suburbs.
Quote from: Graybeard on January 22 2019 11:12:27 AM MST
Length, twist rate and speed are all factors. Assuming the same twist rate, a barrel half as long only rotates the bullet half as much over (roughly) half the time. The rotational force ends when the bullet exits the barrel.
It's illustrated well in .38s. A .38 snubbie may struggle to stabilize 158gr bullets and a 6" .38 may shoot them like a tack driver. Both may work great with 125s.
Sqlbullet isn't wrong, though. Traveling faster through the same twist increases the revolutions as the time factor is decreased. There is a point of diminishing return there if you run out of barrel to impart that spin.
Quote from: Rojo27 on January 22 2019 08:18:42 PM MST
So a 4.6" Glock has issues with the 220gr hardcast but similar barrel length 10mm like the Tanfolio don't?
Hadn't heard same issue plaguing 5" 1911 pistols. Does it?
Bullets stabilize based on their length and diameter when using the classic Greenhill formula.
twist = 150*(projectile diameter^2/projectile length)
But, this simplistic formula assumes a lead bullet traveling at velocity around 1900 fps.
In all reality we are looking for gyroscopic stabilization, which is determined by the spin rate (revolutions/time), projectile geometry, projectile density. Given the modern complexity of bullet shapes and composition, we are lucky that averages of these last to attributes work just fine for the most part.
The Bowman equation extended Greenhill to account for the impact of velocity on spin rate. Increase velocity (distance/time) for a given twist (revolutions/distance) and the spin rate goes up, increasing stability. This equation assumes that velocity is in inches per second:
twist = (sqrt(velocity)) * (projectile diameter^2/projectile length)
However, since we usually measure velocity in feet per second, and the square root of 12 is 3.4641, Bowman's equation is usually simplified to:
twist = 3.5 * sqrt(velocityFPS) * (projectile diameter^2/projectile length)
As different materials are used in bullet construction, the specific gravity (SG) of the bullet changes, usually going down since very few elements available to reloaders are more dense than lead. As SG goes down, the bullet has to spin faster to compensate. Different shapes also impact this as long boat tail hollow point bullets are longer than their mass would suggest, but in general these factors do not play heavily into handgun bullets.
Barrel length has no bearing on stabilization except as it impacts velocity. Increasing barrel length usually increases velocity and therefore spin rate, allowing bullets to better stabilize. But this really only applies if you have a bullet the is barely stabilized. In general twist rates are faster than needed because there is a big delta between the minimum spin rate to stabilize and the maximum spin rate before the bullet rips itself apart. (Although that can happen if you shoot super-light varmint bullets out of a fast twist barrel meant for heavy, long range target bullets. Think 36 grain .224 bullets out of a 22-250 in a 1:7 twist barrel meant for 90 grain bullets.)
Increasing barrel length does not impact twist rate. A bullet fired from a 1" barrel and a 30" barrel in a 1:16 twist will both rotate 1 full revolution for every 16" of travel. The rifling does not accelerate the spin the longer the bullet is in the barrel. Unless it is gain twist rifling or the bullet is skidding in the rifling.
When talking about 10mm and doing the math assuming a 200 grain bullet of about .625" of length, any twist faster than 1:20 should be more than fine for any velocity above 600 fps.
So, we are left with the mystery of why a longer barrel on a Glock seems to make a difference but the same bullet stabilizes fine in other guns with similar length barrels. On the face of it, the Glock's faster twist should provide for success with even shorter barrels and corresponding velocity and spin rate reductions.
I personally think three factors are at play here and I think they are resulting in some bullet skid in the rifling.
Factor one is the ridiculously fast twist in the Glock barrel. 1:16 is pretty standard for pistols in 9mm and larger. As we have said, 1:20 is fast enough for even the most anemic 10mm loads in long bullets, and shorter bullets require less spin to stabilize. So, the Glock spin is more than twice as fast as needed, and more than three times as fast as needed at 10mm velocities (1:31 at 1200 fps)
Factor two is the loose Glock groove diameter. Every Glock I am aware has slugged at .402" give or take. I have not measured bore diameter, but the excess groove diameter provides some slop.
Factor three is the polygonal rifling that Glock uses. This results in less abrupt, sharp, grabby rifling.
I think these three factors together allow the bullets a significant amount of skid that you don't see in a 1:16 cut rifled barrel. As a result, spin is not being fully imparted to the bullet at the time of engraving, and the bullet behaves more like it is being fired from a gain twist barrel
my 2¢
And some citations:
Here are some twist calclulators. Note that none of them ask for barrel length.
http://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
https://thebarreloutlet.com/twist-calculator/
https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi
And finally, another calculator with sources and additional info about Greenhill Bowman and others twist formulas:
http://kwk.us/twist.html
Quote from: Graybeard on January 23 2019 06:36:45 AM MST
:)) MI resident myself. Always got a chuckle out of the DNR's position on this. Dead deer parts and cougar tracks on the Lake Superior shoreline and lots of sightings for the last 20 years = nothing to see here people. Just misidentification caused by big house cats.......... ;)
Nope. MN. ;D
I found my old stash of 10mm DT 200 grain HC Lead solids. I'll have to see if there is a feeding issue with my LWD barrels for it. It appears the feed ramps might be to small for the broad bullet flat nose from what I Googled-Fued. Since we are going to have some cold weather the 416R LWD barrel will be going in it for the lead ones. When I had money I invested in a few "On sale LWD barrels" seems my idea was a good one, even got one with a comp. They make the same type of barrels under double diamond brand of the LWD ones I have, not the Alpha Wolf ones.
Good added info I see. Very informative.
Quote from: sqlbullet on January 23 2019 02:06:56 PM MST
Bullets stabilize based on their length and diameter when using the classic Greenhill formula.
twist = 150*(projectile diameter^2/projectile length)
But, this simplistic formula assumes a lead bullet traveling at velocity around 1900 fps.
In all reality we are looking for gyroscopic stabilization, which is determined by the spin rate (revolutions/time), projectile geometry, projectile density. Given the modern complexity of bullet shapes and composition, we are lucky that averages of these last to attributes work just fine for the most part.
The Bowman equation extended Greenhill to account for the impact of velocity on spin rate. Increase velocity (distance/time) for a given twist (revolutions/distance) and the spin rate goes up, increasing stability. This equation assumes that velocity is in inches per second:
twist = (sqrt(velocity)) * (projectile diameter^2/projectile length)
However, since we usually measure velocity in feet per second, and the square root of 12 is 3.4641, Bowman's equation is usually simplified to:
twist = 3.5 * sqrt(velocityFPS) * (projectile diameter^2/projectile length)
As different materials are used in bullet construction, the specific gravity (SG) of the bullet changes, usually going down since very few elements available to reloaders are more dense than lead. As SG goes down, the bullet has to spin faster to compensate. Different shapes also impact this as long boat tail hollow point bullets are longer than their mass would suggest, but in general these factors do not play heavily into handgun bullets.
Barrel length has no bearing on stabilization except as it impacts velocity. Increasing barrel length usually increases velocity and therefore spin rate, allowing bullets to better stabilize. But this really only applies if you have a bullet the is barely stabilized. In general twist rates are faster than needed because there is a big delta between the minimum spin rate to stabilize and the maximum spin rate before the bullet rips itself apart. (Although that can happen if you shoot super-light varmint bullets out of a fast twist barrel meant for heavy, long range target bullets. Think 36 grain .224 bullets out of a 22-250 in a 1:7 twist barrel meant for 90 grain bullets.)
Increasing barrel length does not impact twist rate. A bullet fired from a 1" barrel and a 30" barrel in a 1:16 twist will both rotate 1 full revolution for every 16" of travel. The rifling does not accelerate the spin the longer the bullet is in the barrel. Unless it is gain twist rifling or the bullet is skidding in the rifling.
When talking about 10mm and doing the math assuming a 200 grain bullet of about .625" of length, any twist faster than 1:20 should be more than fine for any velocity above 600 fps.
So, we are left with the mystery of why a longer barrel on a Glock seems to make a difference but the same bullet stabilizes fine in other guns with similar length barrels. On the face of it, the Glock's faster twist should provide for success with even shorter barrels and corresponding velocity and spin rate reductions.
I personally think three factors are at play here and I think they are resulting in some bullet skid in the rifling.
Factor one is the ridiculously fast twist in the Glock barrel. 1:16 is pretty standard for pistols in 9mm and larger. As we have said, 1:20 is fast enough for even the most anemic 10mm loads in long bullets, and shorter bullets require less spin to stabilize. So, the Glock spin is more than twice as fast as needed, and more than three times as fast as needed at 10mm velocities (1:31 at 1200 fps)
Factor two is the loose Glock groove diameter. Every Glock I am aware has slugged at .402" give or take. I have not measured bore diameter, but the excess groove diameter provides some slop.
Factor three is the polygonal rifling that Glock uses. This results in less abrupt, sharp, grabby rifling.
I think these three factors together allow the bullets a significant amount of skid that you don't see in a 1:16 cut rifled barrel. As a result, spin is not being fully imparted to the bullet at the time of engraving, and the bullet behaves more like it is being fired from a gain twist barrel
my 2¢
And some citations:
Here are some twist calclulators. Note that none of them ask for barrel length.
http://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
https://thebarreloutlet.com/twist-calculator/
https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi
And finally, another calculator with sources and additional info about Greenhill Bowman and others twist formulas:
http://kwk.us/twist.html
WOW! Where else anywhere on the internet can you ask a question and get that kind of knowledge, information, logic, reason, experience annotated with citations and source material laid out for you? :o
AMAZED!!
Quote from: Muskrat on January 22 2019 05:27:18 PM MST
Since black bear attacks are fantastically uncommon, and black bears are not particularly hard to kill, I'd recommend the OP concentrate on whatever cartridge they think will work best for deer. Whatever that is will be MORE than enough to deal with any bear issue.
If it's accurate out of the OP's gun, I'd look no further than the Federal Trophy Bonded 180 grain.
All most didn't see this one.
I been around black bears to know what to expect about them. I helped my old man when he was a game warden "return" bears to nature for years. I've lost many a food pack and other things to them. But a few times they never wanted the salami and cheese sandwiches or the Doritos and kept doing the huff huff trying to get closer and closer with a predator lock on. Break in to the old farm house with me in it. I want to be ready for that just in case again. Bears are like people, most just want your tastie tidbits, some want more. My rule of thumb is NEVER shoot a bear unless your hunting it or HAVE to shoot it. Being on the business end of a bear a few times taught me to have enough to over kill when it comes to a gun for them.
My last encounter was when I was steel head fishing he climbed down the rock cliff I did (there were steel rings in the cliff some one put there), huffed to try and steal my steel head. The Doritos and sandwiches seemed to buy him off, his patients told me he made his living off of tourists. Hint spread them out so they eat one by one and takes longer. I climbed up poured out the second bag of Doritos and got the heck out of there! I had a 44 mag I could of used, but he showed no signs of wanting to get me. He could of had me if her wanted me so I knew it would be dumb to put a hole in him. I still lost the steelhead though...took the over 20 pounder I think to show off my my uncle and my aunt came with her walker saying "Oh you brought us a steelhead!" and put it in the fridge. How could I say no to two people who gave me free medical care for a while when I needed it?
Quote from: Rojo27 on January 22 2019 08:18:42 PM MST
Quote from: sqlbullet on January 22 2019 08:27:55 AM MST
Actually, it would be the extra velocity the length imparts.
So a 4.6" Glock has issues with the 220gr hardcast but similar barrel length 10mm like the Tanfolio don't?
Hadn't heard same issue plaguing 5" 1911 pistols. Does it?
220 grain hard cast stabilization gets even weirder. The Underwood 220 won't stabilize in my G20, but the Buffalo Bore 220 do and even shoot quite accurately. They do have a slightly different profile.
For deer and smaller bear or hogs I'd almost say an expanding round would be better, like the Buffalo Barnes 155. The heavy solids don't come to mind unless we are talking quite large animals.
For what it's worth, I have fired the Underwood 220 grain powder coated hard cast load out of my G40 and they stabilized just fine. They were powerful too.
YMMV. Always best to test your carry loads in your weapon of choice prior to serious social, hunting, or animal defense work.
I haven't tried the new coated ones. I'll have to get some of the 220 and see if it changes anything. Either way does the coating seem to reduce leading potential in a Glock as advertised?
Quote from: SPDSR on March 11 2019 04:41:11 AM MDT
I haven't tried the new coated ones. I'll have to get some of the 220 and see if it changes anything. Either way does the coating seem to reduce leading potential in a Glock as advertised?
I believe it does. I only fired a box of it, but there was no leading in my G40 barrel that I could see.
Thanks I'll have to try some out. Do they seem like the same exact bullet profile as the old ones? Same meplat and all?
I don't have any hands on experience with the old ones. But they do look similar to me....just powder coated.
Thanks
Quote from: Roguer on January 24 2019 10:34:45 PM MST
My last encounter was when I was steel head fishing he climbed down the rock cliff I did (there were steel rings in the cliff some one put there), huffed to try and steal my steel head. The Doritos and sandwiches seemed to buy him off, his patients told me he made his living off of tourists. Hint spread them out so they eat one by one and takes longer. I climbed up poured out the second bag of Doritos and got the heck out of there! I had a 44 mag I could of used, but he showed no signs of wanting to get me. He could of had me if her wanted me so I knew it would be dumb to put a hole in him. I still lost the steelhead though...took the over 20 pounder I think to show off my my uncle and my aunt came with her walker saying "Oh you brought us a steelhead!" and put it in the fridge. How could I say no to two people who gave me free medical care for a while when I needed it?
Feeding the bear is the worst thing you could possibly do! A black bear shouldn't be that aggressive. Any black bear that will force the issue like that needs to be put down. Your just reinforcing the bad behavior to reward that bear with food.
Black bears aren't really that tough to kill. Any good factory load that will work for whitetails or hogs will do fine on black bears as well. Any of the 180-200 gr JSP or JHP loads are good, placement trumps bullet.
I generally carry 200gr TMJ @1250fps. Buffalo bore or hand loaded copycat. Our bears come in bigger sizes than most black bear and the solids tend to penetrate better. I saw the blazer 200gr FMJ go thru a 6' black bear neck shoulder junction exited out back leg, two shots. Broke neck and spine vertebrae shutting him down on the spot.
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