I have used the Lee factory crimp die with lead bullets in 45 acp and 9mm but it has always been a light crimp. What I am running into with With my Lonewolf barrel in my G20 is FTF with the reloaded lead bullets. When comparing factory ammo (which runs 100% ) I find I need more crimp . I have loaded 30 bullets and will make it to the range this weekend to check function.
Ammo is passing plunk and does not seem to be gouging lead.
I guess my question is "what is to much crimp" ?
Well, If they pass the plunk test, it could be an issue with the nose design of the bullet if it has a large MEPLAT or WFN. Then the tipping angle can only be changed by seating slightly deeper to improve the way the cartridge enters the chamber.
It is much better to use a true case gauge as the plunk test as it is of tighter tolerances than the barrel chamber. Be careful with that LEE FCD as your final crimp as it can squeeze those lead bullet smaller than their sized diameters and that can lead to leading of the barrel.
Good luck!
Here is the bullet I am using , If I seat much deeper it will be past where the bullet starts tapering to the flatpoint
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That bullet should feed like silk by design. It should work well at 1.2500" and even 1.2550", Some of the WFN designs have been seated to 1.2420" - 1.2450", not sure if you could seat that deep and still be at or above the tapered section of the bullet...
How does it hang up when it cycles? It may be dragging on the edge at the feed ramp as it tips into the chamber. Might need to be polished at that area.
Do you tap the magazine to seat the cartridges to the rear of the magazine?
What recoil spring are you running? I run the non captive Wolff recoil rod and 22lbs spring in my 20SF 3rd gen
I have the G20 3rd gen running the same recoil spring you are . OAL is 1.230 which I want to bring back out if I can get the pistol feeding.
I have not been tapping the mags and will polish the feed ramp, it looks smooth under a magnifier, but at this point.....
Thanks for the help Shadow! :)
What exactly is the problem you're having, that makes you think you need "more crimp?"
Quote from: Univibe on September 21 2018 10:08:37 PM MDT
What exactly is the problem you're having, that makes you think you need "more crimp?"
This is a good question I would like to know the answer to as well. FTF can cover a wide range of items and may or may not be related to crimp. In fact, I would say "usually not".
If you crimp irons out any flare and the rounds cleanly pass a plunk test, chances are more crimp isn't going to change a thing. You need to seat a bit deeper is a more likely correct answer.
If OP's problem is the bullet being pushed back in the case when feeding, there's no way you can "crimp" your way out of that problem. The cause of that is insufficient case tension. I went through this 40 years ago when I first started reloading. I had a 1911 in .45 which might have had a chamber on the large side. I sent some fired cases and my die to RCBS, and they made me (no charge!) a custom carbide sizing die that was a bit smaller than spec. This cured the problem instantly. I'm still using that die and I have zero problems with bullet setback.
If this is the problem for OP, that's the solution. And it should be corrected immediately, because the bullet forced back in the case can create high pressures upon firing.
Quote from: Univibe on September 21 2018 10:08:37 PM MDT
What exactly is the problem you're having, that makes you think you need "more crimp?"
When I compare factory ammo to my reloads the only measurement I can find that is bigger than factory is the crimp area of the bullet.
I have loaded some with a tighter crimp so that area matches factory . In other calibers I load using lead I go a light crimp and have never had an issue . I have read that to tight a crimp can cause accuracy issues so I am wondering what is to tight! Or is this just one of the try it and see type deals.
Quote from: sqlbullet on September 22 2018 11:01:03 AM MDT
Quote from: Univibe on September 21 2018 10:08:37 PM MDT
What exactly is the problem you're having, that makes you think you need "more crimp?"
This is a good question I would like to know the answer to as well. FTF can cover a wide range of items and may or may not be related to crimp. In fact, I would say "usually not".
If you crimp irons out any flare and the rounds cleanly pass a plunk test, chances are more crimp isn't going to change a thing. You need to seat a bit deeper is a more likely correct answer.
If I go any deeper I will have the mouth of the case past where the bullet starts tapering toward the flat point.
Is this a three point jam then?
There are lots of failures to feed that fall under the heading of failure to feed.
Another thing to consider when handloading and reusing cases is the extractor rims. They can be dented, bent or beat up from several different things, especially hitting hard surfaces.
These issues ever so slight may cause hamper the cartridge from sliding up the breech face as it goes between the extractor hook. The imparted drag can slow things down or cause the FTF.
Most minor nicks and dings usually polish out with case cleaning in the tumbler. I have seen new brass with thicker than normal extractor rims. If you get a case that is difficult to fit the shell holder that can be a sign.
Not my pistol but this is what it does
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Is this happening as you shoot or when chambering the first round? or both? Three point jamb.
You might need to load longer COL to help your situation...to help your tipping angle. I was thing yours may have been long but you need to try longer... 1.2500" - 1.2550"
(https://i.postimg.cc/CKxnVPj9/chamber_tip.jpg)
Thinks like the feed lips of the magazine if damaged could play into this also.
It is happening as I shoot, I am going to the range this evening and will load some at the OAL that you suggest. Lee loading manual had me start at 1.240 and I went shorter from there. Thanks for the diagram... Think when I first started having issues with this load I seen this diagram and skimmed right over it!!! :-[ 8)
Ding,Ding,Ding. We have a winner!! Loaded 50 up at the longer 1.250 and all 50 ran flawlessly!! That is a first with reloads since I installed the Lone Wolf barrel. Thanks for all the input . Now i can start working on an accurate load instead of beating my head on the wall trying to figure out the FTF. 8)
Really helpful info, Thanks!
I pay little or no attention to listed OAL when loading a new bullet design. My method is to load five or six to determine max magazine length. Making sure that the new bullets feed smoothly out of the mag without any nose drag against the front of the mag. To accomplish this I make a few that are too long and gradually reduce their OAL until they flick smoothly out of the mag with no hang ups due to nose drag. Then I do a plunk test making sure that the new carts seat fully at that max mag length. If the new carts pass the plunk test then I have my ideal OAL. I have always followed the 'longer is better' dictum for best feeding in self loaders. Also, all my feed ramps are polished to a bright mirror finish with Craytex bobs and Dremel. I am another LFCD devotee, using one on all auto loads.
edit....OOPS, I see that you have achieved success, and my comments were unneeded. Good on you!