Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: CORBON 135gr Self-Defense JHP
Ballistics Information: 10mm Auto
Muzzle Velocity: 1400 fps
Muzzle Energy: 588 ft. lbs
Brass Make/Headstamp: CORBON - Brass
Bullet Make/Weight/Construction/Info; Length 0.4935"/Dia. 0.4010": 135gr. SD JHP
Actual weight 135.2 grains Crimp squeezed bullet to 0.3995"
C.O.A.L.: 1.2500"
Primer: Brass color
Case: Diameter 0.4210" Crimp Diameter 0.4215" (Tight) Length 0.9865"
Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Power Pistol Weight: 10.4 grains
Tested in 10mm S&W1006 5" 1432 fps / 1455 fps June 8, 2013
Cases expanded to 0.4285" / 0.4285", primers slightly flattened, cases look good.
(https://s20.postimg.cc/s9p9nhrzh/IMG_0455_zps624abd73.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/z05qwxmv1/IMG_0457_zps7441bfc5.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/9u4sq3tal/IMG_0458_zpsa511aa48.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/essb4n4t9/IMG_0459_zpsaf8fcbb2.jpg)
Power pistol. I think MAC used it too.
Any clue what actual at home chrono results showed for other rounds from the same box of ammo?
What does Shadow's estimated range work out to for that load?
Alliant shows this for data 10.6 grains of Power pistol @ 1,530 fps 35,600 PSi from 5.5" barrel, Fed. 150 primer, COAL 1.250"
Therefore they will probably be inside the 1400 fps window of performance...
My result was 1456 FPS average.
Thanks
I always felt that if that round would have been available earlier, the 10mm would be much more popular today. Thanks for the research, Shadow.
Good point, enid.
Doc clocked this load at 1375 out of his Glock. See line #32:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjsXvXEryDJjdFhsRUcwSHRUcktCMmhOMTVFa25xa1E#gid=0
Quote from: enidpd804 on February 08 2013 10:44:37 PM MSTI always felt that if that round would have been available earlier, the 10mm would be much more popular today.
I too tend to agree.
Quote from: enidpd804 on February 08 2013 10:44:37 PM MST
I always felt that if that round would have been available earlier, the 10mm would be much more popular today. Thanks for the research, Shadow.
I like to think that too, but I am not sure that this is true. The 38-40 is pretty much between 40S&W and 10mm in performance, and has been around a LONG time. But the 45 Long Colt got it done, and was the foundation for the 45 ACP.
Don't get me wrong, I love the 10mm and think it is about the best. Great power, small package, good capacity numbers in magazines, etc. But, the idea of a .400 bullet in these power ranges is not new. It just hasn't ever caught on.
Good points, sir. All true. My thought on the topic is this: I remember the negative reports coming in at the time. Too much recoil...and... A street failure of the 175 Silvertip. The first documented shooting I remember reading about was four torso hits with ST with no immediate results. :o Of course, we all know ...stopping power...drugs...psycopathy...exact shot placement...etc. Still, that info had to have an effect on the market. A friend and I lamented the fact that Corbon wasn't currently making a 135 gr. 10mm at the same velocity as their (and, of more relevance-Federal's) .357 125 gr. Man, that would be a whopper! It was and is. It was just too late.
That was my thought process at the time anyway. Of course, I was in my early 20's and not quite as smart or as handsome as I am now. ;D
Quote from: sqlbullet on February 10 2013 11:09:22 AM MSTBut, the idea of a .400 bullet in these power ranges is not new. It just hasn't ever caught on.
What do you mean by
these power ranges? At first I was simply thinking you meant the 10mm Auto power range. But since you said it in a plural sense I'm not sure what you meant, and would prefer clarification before jumping to a conclusion that may be inaccurate.
There is a whole scope cartridges in the .400 size. The ones in factory offerings over the years have included:
38-40 - 180 gr @1200 fps for 575 ft-lbs energy in 1874
41 Colt Special - 210 gr @1150 for 616 ft-lbs energy in 1877 (and again in the 1932)
41 Magnum - 180 gr @1800 fps for 1294 ft-lbs energy in 1964
10mm Auto - 180 gr @1350 fps for 728 ft-lbs energy in 1983
41 Action Express - 180 gr @900 fps for 323 ft-lbs energy in 1986
40 S&W - 180 gr @1050 fps for 440 ft-lbs energy in 1990
There have also been a whole host of wildcat and semi-wildcat offerings. The 40 Eimer, the 40 G&A, etc.
I agree with enid, and disagree. It think if introduced under the right confluence of events, the 10mm would be THE cartridge today. I have to run to a meeting...More thoughts later.
Unfortunately, the confluence of events stacked against the 10mm. First were the (unfounded) fears about longevity which caused the FBI ballistics team to download the 10mm for their testing. They effectively validated what Elmer Keith, Sketter Skelton and Bill Jordan campaigned for years would be the ideal personal defense round: 200 grains at 900 fps in .400. Turned out that 180 at 1000 worked just as well, maybe better.
Then came big heavy guns for such a light load (1006, 1076), which agents didn't like to carry.
And a bunch of gun mfg's that had just invested big money in tooling and design for wonder-nine pistols. Everyone had just introduced their high capacity 9mm variant, and there was no way to tweak those designs to handle a 10mm.
But, a 40 S&W fit nicely in those designs. Small tweak and off they went. Except, they needed a reason to have the FBI switch and get behind the same ballistics in a new package.
Suddenly the big heavy 1076 were recoil monsters when firing a 180 grain bullet at 950 fps, but a light Glock 23 was tame when firing the same bullet at the same speed. That must be new math.
None the less, this confluence of events gave us the hugely popular 40 S&W. It is the cartridge that Elmer, Skeeter and Bill wanted. Heck, it is even the cartridge that Jeff Cooper wildcatted before the 10mm auto (40 G&A). In a lot of ways, the 10mm made all the same mistakes the 41 magnum made. Rather than deliver what was asked for they added a touch more power. And the perception became it was too much.
Makes you wonder if the story would have been different in the FBI had chosen a 170 grain bullet at 1400 fps as 'their' load. I wonder if the mighty 10mm would be the gun used by 75% of the law enforcement agencies today.
I am glad Norma did what they did with the 10mm, even if it was more spec than was asked for by Elmer, Skeeter, Bill and Jeff. We all know that Jeff liked the 10mm, and I gotta think from what I have read, the other three would have liked 10mm in self loading guns too. Skeeter was kinda the 41 magnum champion and his idea of the best LE/personal defense load for the 41 magnum lines right up with what the 10mm does. I am sure he would take 15 shots in a Glock over 6 from a S&W model 57.
The 125 grain 357 is more comparable in my mind to a 155 grain 10mm. The 155 gr 10mm doesn't make quite the velocity, but it has the energy and more importantly, the sectional density. A 135 grain 10mm doesn't have the penetration of the 125 grain 357, but a 155 grain 10mm does.
Quote from: sqlbullet on February 10 2013 11:09:22 AM MSTBut, the idea of a .400 bullet in these power ranges is not new. It just hasn't ever caught on.
Thanks for the clarification. I see what you're saying and agree.
As for what I quoted you on immediately above, I do agree the idea of a .400 bullet in these power ranges is not new.
At this point though I'ld say it's caught on quite well in the likes of 40S&W and 10mm Auto. In regard to the 10mm Auto itself, outside of LE/Military, in my book it is currently a common pistol round, and in various circles (self defense, hunting, and just plain old fun). There are really only a handful of pistol (semi auto) rounds more common than it, and in my view it is still only gaining in popularity, pretty much by leaps and bounds compared to any other semi auto pistol cartridge out there. There is also now a wide range of factory ammo (both large and boutique manufacturers) available for the 10mm, along with no shortage of available platforms from various manufacturers with which to launch it from.
BTW, I do realize much of anything is hard to get a hold of right now in our current governmental state of affairs. But that's with all cartridges, and 10mm Auto components haven't stayed on the shelves any longer than anything else either. Yes, the 40 S&W is partly at fault, but not when it comes to 10mm brass itself, which normally otherwise isn't generally that difficult to get ones hands on.
Anyway, not to turn anything into something it isn't, I'm simply of the opinion that 10mm has come a long way toward popularity after the FBI dumped it, and is still only growing in popularity by leaps and bounds outside of LE/Military. At this point in time, to suggest the 10mm Auto hasn't caught on seems way off base to me. Other's veiws may vary, and much of our views will vary just based on perspective. Just my 2 cents. ;D
I think that after the FBI dropped the 10mm, and other agencies like the Kentucky State Police followed suit, the 10mm took a dive as far as popularity goes.
I do believe that by introducing the Delta Elite, Colt saved the 10mm from extinction. I also believe that Glock kept the 10mm alive from there with the introduction of the Glock 20.
The 10mm seemed to wane in popularity for a while. For this reason I did not get involved with the 10mil earlier on, because I didn't know if the cartridge would die out and if ammo would become difficult or impossible to get. Forums like Glocktalk helped me to realize the 10 is not only here to stay but is gaining in popularity. This forum is also helping in that regard.
My prediction is that the 10mm will remain a viable cartridge and will continue to be popular with handgun enthusiasts and outdoorsmen. I would love to see the 10mm used by law enforcement agencies again, but the higher pressure loads will be too difficult for most police officers to handle. And if we are going to shoot .40 S&W level ammo, we might as well issue a .40 and take advantage of the smaller grip for the officers (both male and female) with smaller hands.
Other than that, 10mm rules.
Off topic, but are police departments have any problems with supply of 40 cal ammo? The government is buying in such massive quantities it has to affect supply chains.
I couldn't give you a proper answer Ed, because we carry 9mm.
I haven't heard of any .40 shortage though, and I correspond with a lot of LEO's on line and off.
Military and LE ammo is being supplied as contracted. This is why the civilian supply is so short, but non-existent. .40 S&W is still available occasionally in small quantities to us insignificants. We are 3rd in line, so their supply hasn't changed.
Tested the CORBON 135 Self Defense JHP in the 10mm S&W1006 5" 1432 fps / 1455 fps June 8, 2013
1456 here. This was just a tad faster than the Powerball with the additional powder correct?
yes, 0.2 grains difference more on this one.
Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: CORBON 135gr JHP (OLD) may be Nosler
Ballistics Information: 10mm Auto
Muzzle Velocity: 1450 fps
Muzzle Energy: 630 ft. lbs
Pictures: Before/After disassembly:
Brass Make/Headstamp: Star Line - Brass
Bullet Make/Weight/Construction/Info; Length 0.4860"/Dia. 0.4000": 135gr. JHP
Actual weight 135.0 grains Crimp squeezed bullet to 0.3955"
HP depth 0.210" / HP dia 0.1215" / mouth dia 0.2300"
C.O.A.L.: 1.2490"
Primer: Nickel color
Case: Diameter 0.4220"" Crimp Diameter 0.4200" (tight) Length 0.9890"
Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight: AA#9 17.6 grains
(https://s20.postimg.cc/71bl62dil/IMG_0440_zps38755911.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/bagb88w7h/IMG_0441_zps44439086.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/478fsmyhp/IMG_0442_zps03c7978c.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/bn7peftwt/IMG_0443_zps6aa83de4.jpg)
Accurate Arms handloading data(Accurate Arms Data AANo.9 17.5 grains @ 1507 29,200 PSI)
Makes sense! The 1500 FPS is real and I wonder why they changed to Power Pistol in the new offering?
Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: CORBON 135gr JHP (OLD) may be Sierra
Ballistics Information: 10mm Auto
Muzzle Velocity: 1400 fps
Muzzle Energy: 587 ft. lbs
Pictures: Before/After disassembly:
Brass Make/Headstamp: Star Line - Brass
Bullet Make/Weight/Construction/Info; Length 0.5000"/Dia. 0.4000": 135gr. JHP
Actual weight 135.0 grains Crimp squeezed bullet to 0.3955"
HP depth 0.2075" / HP dia 0.1550" / mouth dia 0.2500"
C.O.A.L.: 1.2520"
Primer: Nickel color
Case: Diameter 0.4215"" Crimp Diameter 0.4175" (tight) Length 0.9880"
Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight: RamShot Silhouette 10.4 grains
(https://s20.postimg.cc/vtfsqzuct/IMG_0444_zps8681880f.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/odgj57ed9/IMG_0445_zpsbbfa1f27.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/s9tv18p31/IMG_0446_zpsab78f510.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/p2zbhkmml/IMG_0447_zps139ccc82.jpg)