Not to lose buffalo bore any business as I bought 100 rounds of their 783 foot pound loaded ammo but I find I have 500 rounds of empty starline brass and 500 rounds of the Speer 180 grain bullets they used and would love to purchase some equivalent powder to load my own.
They mentioned flash suppression in their loads. Graphite?
Any help on an equivalent loading would be nice. I did write to them and ask to purchase a small qty but no response. Duh.....
Anyone get similar energy and velocity in a 5 inch barrel?
Bob
Try a search here for Longshot data. You are going to be over book to get that velocity and energy, probably by about half a grain.
The "flash suppression" refers to the powder selection (which may include a custom formula), not something they "put" in it. Powders such as Longshot and AA9 are labeled "low flash" powders. I seriously doubt BB is using a custom formulated powder (cost prohibitive). Buffers can be used with a powder charge to reduce the flash of a high-flash powder, but the case capacity of auto pistol cartridges prohibits using them effectively (a smaller charge of faster powder will yield the same result with no flash, and more economically, at a cost of bullet velocity/energy).
Getting 783 FPE (1400 FPS) from a 180 gr. Gold Dot or XTP isn't difficult. All the loads, regardless of powder will be over published maximums, though. It's easiest with Blue Dot, but it's not hardly a "low flash" powder. Work up your loads carefully, whichever way you do it.
Like DM1906, I would load Blue Dot, but as he says, it will have flash, which is why I suggested looking for Longshot.
AA#9 gets pretty close too. You will likely run out of case capacity with this powder before you make the desired velocity.
The long shot is low flash from what I am reading?
What charge gets the equivalent power using the 180's and starline brass?
Any difference in results using different large pistol primers?
Thanks. I knew there would be experts 20 years after I bought my 10mm colt.
And I was correct.
Bob
Search here seems to show about 10 grains. But again, that is over book. And Underwood calls out rampless designs as unsuitable for loads this heavy. If you gun is a Delta Elite I would be VERY wary of exceeding book data.
Primers DO make a difference, so be sure to rework loads from the start when using different primers (or any component change, for that matter).
Hodgdon/Longshot shows a starting load of 8.5 gr. (1221 FPS, 31K PSI), and a max load of 9.5 gr. (1287 FPS, 34.6K PSI), C.O.L. 1.260", with no specified primer, and a Sierra JHC bullet.
The listed pressures indicate some room to increase, but you'll be on your own, as a handloader. If you are working them up without a chronograph, you'll have no way of actually knowing what you have. Also understand that published velocities by commercial suppliers are very often optimistic, in that you won't actually see what they say you will. They test their loads in a very controlled environment, often with equipment you won't be handling in the field, such as a stationary test barrel machine. A typical test barrel for auto-loaders is 5", but it isn't likely they are shooting the same gun you are.
Quote from: sqlbullet on January 21 2013 12:52:27 PM MST
Search here seems to show about 10 grains. But again, that is over book. And Underwood calls out rampless designs as unsuitable for loads this heavy. If you gun is a Delta Elite I would be VERY wary of exceeding book data.
Yeah. What he said....
Just for an example I got smileys with 9.0 gr of Longshot behind 180 XTPs in my Colt Delta. Primers were WLPs as I remember. Chrono avg ~ 1260 fps.
Quote from: EdMc on January 21 2013 01:52:54 PM MST
Just for an example I got smileys with 9.0 gr of Longshot behind 180 XTPs in my Colt Delta. Primers were WLPs as I remember. Chrono avg ~ 1260 fps.
Just another reminder to be careful with hot loads in the Deltas. In my stock Glock 20 barrel, I got up to 10.2gr (
this is over max FYI) and still didn't have any smilies or flattened primers. Then again, 9.0gr only got me to 1200fps in the 4.6" barrel.
[/quote]
Just another reminder to be careful with hot loads in the Deltas. In my stock Glock 20 barrel, I got up to 10.2gr (this is over max FYI) and still didn't have any smilies or flattened primers. Then again, 9.0gr only got me to 1200fps in the 4.6" barrel.
[/quote]
I got about the same fps in my 20SF as you (1190), but started seeing changes in the primers at 9.2 gr. What velocity did you get from 10.2 gr? Just curious, I never went above the 9.2.
Quote from: EdMc on January 21 2013 07:00:08 PM MST
Quote
Just another reminder to be careful with hot loads in the Deltas. In my stock Glock 20 barrel, I got up to 10.2gr (this is over max FYI) and still didn't have any smilies or flattened primers. Then again, 9.0gr only got me to 1200fps in the 4.6" barrel.
I got about the same fps in my 20SF as you (1190), but started seeing changes in the primers at 9.2 gr. What velocity did you get from 10.2 gr? Just curious, I never went above the 9.2.
At 10.2gr, I was right at 1290-1300 fps, but I decided it was too hot and just a slight overcharge could be not fun. Around 10.0 I averaged 1262, 9.8 to 10.0 were nearly identical, and going down .2gr every time, I lost about 20-30 fps each time.
It might be of interest to note that I'm using CCI 300 primers, and I understand that they are a little more stout than some others.
I am a novice here and really appreciate the info.
The barrel differences I have heard of on other websites so I have a little background on this.
To avoid the smileys you mention a ramped barrel. What is on my delta elite gold cup now?
Thanks in advance. Looking for some longshot powder now.
I will probably not exceed the 9 grains anyway.
Unless I pick up a 1026 or a glock
Unless you have an after market barrel and frame mods on a Colt 1911 it is NOT a ramped barrel and does not have proper support for MAX 10mm loads.
I've never seen one of the Nat Match Delta barrels so I can't say. The link blow shows a photo of a standard Delta barrel that you can compare. The Delta barrel is on the left..........notice almost 120 deg non support at the lower part of the case. Did you have any problems with the Buffalo Bore ammo you bought? Did you chrono any of those fired to compare?
http://10mm-firearms.com/gunsmithing/bar-sto-delta-barrel/
I have two of the left barrel. Looks like i have a good throwaway if I was a bad guy. Haha.
Have not fired the buffalo bore yet.
I am a slow guy. took me 22 years to pick this up after kings gun works redid it new for me in 1991. Time to make it go again.
Thanks guys.
Is this the same Bob as on KTMtalk? Welcome to the forum!
Those buffalo bore loads - if it was me, I'd fire the first few with the magazine removed from the gun. This way if you do get a case blowout, the gas can escape down the mag well.
Since you're a novice at this, you might seriously consider Accurate No.9 instead of Longshot, just because it's harder to get into trouble with #9. It's a low flash powder, and will deliver high velocity without as much pressure.
I better clarify something here - DO NOT just take someone's hot load data and try to duplicate it. You have to work up from a lower powder charge, carefully, and watch for pressure signs as you go. Be careful!
Quote from: Yondering on January 23 2013 10:27:29 AM MST
Is this the same Bob as on KTMtalk? Welcome to the forum!
Those buffalo bore loads - if it was me, I'd fire the first few with the magazine removed from the gun. This way if you do get a case blowout, the gas can escape down the mag well.
Since you're a novice at this, you might seriously consider Accurate No.9 instead of Longshot, just because it's harder to get into trouble with #9. It's a low flash powder, and will deliver high velocity without as much pressure.
I better clarify something here - DO NOT just take someone's hot load data and try to duplicate it. You have to work up from a lower powder charge, carefully, and watch for pressure signs as you go. Be careful!
Yes thats me. I worked up my 10 and 9 and 308 loads long ago. Thanks for the info. So for less pressure and low flash the accurate #9 is better than the longshot? Lots of great accuracy reports to the longshot. How's the accurate for accuracy.
My ten will hit a 12x12 plate at 100 yards from a bench. Thinking about a compact 10mm and a s&w 1026
Hiya Bob. :D
I can't say for sure if #9 has less flash than Longshot, but #9 is a very low flash powder. It generally produces very accurate loads in my guns. The downside is you use more powder per shot, so it's a little more expensive. A big advantage though is with most bullet weights, it's pretty much impossible to create a dangerous high pressure load, because you'll run out of powder space first. (Alliant 2400 is like this too, and very accurate, but gives low velocity and lots of flash.)
Edit - take a look at the powder flash pictures on this page, particularly images 5 and 6. http://jeffreybehr.zenfolio.com/p548446203 (http://jeffreybehr.zenfolio.com/p548446203) This doesn't show a huge flash with longshot, but definitely less with AA9.
Edit again - On second though, Flash Bob, maybe you should use Blue Dot, based on your screen name. :P
Like Yondering, I am a fan of AA#9 except for the cost per shot. Meters extremely well, good velocity, good accuracy, low flash. But, it works out to 35% more cost per shot. I guess there is no free lunch.
Quote from: Yondering on January 23 2013 08:55:39 PM MST
Hiya Bob. :D
I can't say for sure if #9 has less flash than Longshot, but #9 is a very low flash powder. It generally produces very accurate loads in my guns. The downside is you use more powder per shot, so it's a little more expensive. A big advantage though is with most bullet weights, it's pretty much impossible to create a dangerous high pressure load, because you'll run out of powder space first. (Alliant 2400 is like this too, and very accurate, but gives low velocity and lots of flash.)
Edit - take a look at the powder flash pictures on this page, particularly images 5 and 6. http://jeffreybehr.zenfolio.com/p548446203 (http://jeffreybehr.zenfolio.com/p548446203) This doesn't show a huge flash with longshot, but definitely less with AA9.
Edit again - On second though, Flash Bob, maybe you should use Blue Dot, based on your screen name. :P
Flash Bob, if you're assembling a personal-defense round, DO NOT use Blue Dot. I've never used it personally, but based on comments from lots of people, BD has VERY high muzzle flash.
Again, based on powders I've tested, low-flash powders are HS-6, SR4756, A7, A9, and Universal.
It will be interesting to see if Buffalo Bore starts using BE-86 in the newer loadings, yes flash suppressed, meters well, clean burning and a little less powder for the yield...
Before the shortages they used Power Pistol powder in some loads...