Morning Folks, any of you have, or have shot the RIA Tactical Ultra MS 4.25-inch 8Rds 10mm?
Thanks
Ken
I do not own a RIA pistol nor have I ever fired a RIA pistol. They seem to be selling lots of them and it appears people are generally happy with their RIA pistols. I was deciding what brand of 10mm 1911 pistol to buy and I considered RIA for many reasons. However, I came across the notice below on the home page of Bar-Sto Precision.
QuoteUnfortunately we no longer are going to be able to fit any barrels to the 1911 Rock Island Armory line of firearms. Regretfully we have recently ran into guns that are so far out of spec in areas, that we are un-willing to attempt a barrel fitting. We do apologize for any inconvenience that this may cause. We are not by any means saying anything bad about RIA, just that we have run into some issues and will no longer be able to work on them.
I decided to purchase a different brand of 1911.
Thanks, I currently have their Rock Ultra FS HC 10mm / 17rd and really like, I just don't know anything about the Rock Ultra MS
Ken
That posting by Bar-sto is not new. It has long been the standard of most custom pistolsmiths and job shops not to work on budget guns.
There are two issues they run into.
First, if you buy a $300 RIA and have a $200 barrel fitted at a cost of $265 you are now $800 into a gun that is still worth $250 used if you decide to sell it. And people who didn't get that would pay for the work, fall on hard times and need to sell, and then be mad at the shop because the added cost did not add value. That is hardly the shops fault.
Second, there was a time when RIA guns had dimensional issues. I think the issue was related to worn tooling they purchased used when they got into the 1911 business, but don't quote me on that. However, starting in the mid 1990's they made a big push to quality, and in 2011 they opened a factory in the US. Today's RIA gun is made on modern CNC machines, and I have found the example I own to be a better made gun than my Ruger or Para.
But, issue #1 about custom work on a second tier brand still applies. Buy them to shoot, but not to hold value.
Thanks, I was just wanting to buy the Tactical Ultra MS and leave it as it is, no big updates
Quote from: Kenk on July 31 2018 11:26:00 AM MDT
Thanks, I was just wanting to buy the Tactical Ultra MS and leave it as it is, no big updates
If the pistol has the features you want ... go for it. RIA's lifetime warranty is real; they'll get it running if you experience problems.
I've recently picked up one of these pistols to pack around the orchard as we've been having an issue with a cougar. I shoot 1911's better than most other handguns and it seemed to be a handy sized firearm.
Overall, I'm pretty happy with it. I've had issues with the slide not locking back on empty with the magazine that came with the gun but only that magazine. Replaced it with the 9 round Cobra mags from Tripp Research and that issue went away. I've only put 150 rounds through it so far, all Sig Sauer Elite Performance 180 gr FMJ. Two malfunctions, both stovepipes of fired shells. Right now I'm chalking it up to break-in period, if it continues to happen I'll look into heavier springs. Looking at the Armscor website they did change to a heavier mainspring at some point in production.
One thing I will say is this thing is difficult for me to field strip. The full length guide rod means I need a third hand. Usually have my wife capture the recoil spring with an allen wrench while I hold the slide back to expose the little hole in the guide rod. I think the only way I could manage to field strip it myself would be with a vise.
Being left handed I had to custom order a holster for it, but I'm used to that. However, from what I did see, holsters for right handed shooters may be difficult as well. I didn't see anything for a commander length 1911 with a rail AND a full length dust cover on the shelves of my local gun stores.
Thanks for the info robhub
Quote from: Grenadier on July 31 2018 07:22:42 AM MDT
I do not own a RIA pistol nor have I ever fired a RIA pistol. They seem to be selling lots of them and it appears people are generally happy with their RIA pistols. I was deciding what brand of 10mm 1911 pistol to buy and I considered RIA for many reasons. However, I came across the notice below on the home page of Bar-Sto Precision.
QuoteUnfortunately we no longer are going to be able to fit any barrels to the 1911 Rock Island Armory line of firearms. Regretfully we have recently ran into guns that are so far out of spec in areas, that we are un-willing to attempt a barrel fitting. We do apologize for any inconvenience that this may cause. We are not by any means saying anything bad about RIA, just that we have run into some issues and will no longer be able to work on them.
I decided to purchase a different brand of 1911.
I talked to Irv at Bar sto about this since I am buying a six inch HC Rock Island Ultra and want an extended threaded barrel made for it. That statement on their website only applies to the low end bargain model rock islands. He will still build and fit barrels for the ultras and the tactical series.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Thanks for that information Mike D. That is good to know.
Quote from: robhub on August 01 2018 02:42:10 AM MDT
One thing I will say is this thing is difficult for me to field strip. The full length guide rod means I need a third hand. Usually have my wife capture the recoil spring with an allen wrench while I hold the slide back to expose the little hole in the guide rod. I think the only way I could manage to field strip it myself would be with a vise.
You might see if 1911ultratool.com has anything. My old hands can only get a 10mm plug in with their stuff.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Don't have the Ultra but do have the same gun with the standard dust cover... Bought it for $500 off GunBroker and it shoots as well as the 10mms I have that cost 2-3 times more.
Sights are excellent and easy to see, zero malfunctions, trigger breaks clean but a little heavy. Only think is that it does throw brass a ways....but most of my 10s do...
Bob
Thanks Bob!
Haven't checked this forum in a while...
I mentioned in some other posts that I can only get Tripp Cobra mags to run consistently in my TAC Ultra MS (the box says "Tactical 2011", but it has the full rail and all...). I was having trouble with the slide outrunning the magazine. I also fitted it with a flat bottom firing pin stop. Since getting the mags and doing the change, the pistol has been 100%.
I really enjoy the feel and the balance of the pistol. I did change out the red fiber optic for a green/yellow, because, for me, the red did not light up very well.
I paid way too much for it when I bought it. It had just come out, couldn't find them in many LGSs, I wanted it, etc. Did I mention I paid way too much? TOO MUCH! Oh well, in another 10 years I'll probably get over it. It was lower than the MSRP at the time.
Would I buy one again, at the prices they go for now? Sure, knowing that the factory mag will need replaced, at least.
I had one of the commanders.
Just be patient, from the reviews I have read, my experience, and videos, the few of these that are running out of the box are unicorns, fully expect it to not run worth a crap to start. What you do from that point forward is up to you. It took me several iterations of things including sending mine back to get it running right.
I believe mine was the 51994 model. There are posts from me detailing everything I needed to do to get mine to run reliably and it was a decent amount of work. Utimately I let it go because I never could find a holster that fit it well and my dan wesson ran so much better with so much less work.
Also now that I no longer have it and am no longer enamored with it, I can honestly say it had bar none, the most ghastly barrel I have ever seen on a gun EVER. If it was used when I got it I would have thought someone sorely mistreated it from what that barrel looked like inside and would have passed.
So I took the RI out for another range session yesterday. I've got a work buddy that had never fired a 10 and wanted to try it. So we put another 200 rounds through it. In between sessions I've also picked up a couple more of the Armscor 8 rnd mags.
So in the 200 rounds we fired through the gun we had 3 malfunctions, all failures to feed with the round not fully chambering. Bullet would hit the top of the barrel instead of just sliding into the chamber. Slide will still not reliably lock back on an empty magazine regardless of manufacturer. Maybe about one-third of the time it won't lock back so it looks like the previous trip with the Cobra mags was a fluke.
This was the first real accuracy testing I've done with it also. Looks like the gun shoots about an inch left at 10 yards consistently for both shooters. So at this point I'm thinking I need to adjust the sights a bit and have the slide stop looked at.
Any other bits of advice on improving reliability from you gurus here?
In my experience, as with most pistols, don't over lubricant it
Also, aprx how many rd's do you have through it? Once you have hit the 500 mark, then it's time to consider contacting RIA
Thanks
Ken
I've only put 330 rounds through the pistol so far, all of it the Sig Sauer Elite Performance 180 gr FMJ, and it has definitely loosened up from the last shooting session. Easier to rack the slide now than when I first got it and easier to use the slide stop lever to drop the slide from slide lock. When I first shot the pistol it took a lot of force to use the slide stop lever this way and it was definitely easier to do so this time around.
As for the sights, I'll tinker with them myself since they are adjustable.
It's the failure to lock back on empty that makes me think it needs work.
The shop I got the pistol from offers a lifetime warranty on all new firearms sold there as they also do gunsmithing, so I'd most likely have them take a look at it first and deal with RIA themselves to save me the hassle of shipping.
Absolutely, letem at it if they will do it for you : )
I had to put wolf springs in my mags. Usually the round sitting nose up wedged against the ramp is a sign that the round couldn't come up in the mag fast enough and the slide started forward before the round had fully risen and settled.
Also, a square firing pin retainer, heavier recoil spring and main spring usually gets it close to fully reliable.
Thanks Bruno
Ken
In case you want to look back, here is the thread where I listed the things I had to do to get mine running pretty well. I think that was prior to getting the recoil spring and main spring.
In addition to the mag springs another big thing that stopped the hangups you describe was filing back the bottom of the ejector because it was actually pushing rounds down slightly in the mag. Also removing some material from the hood and polishing it.
http://10mm-firearms.com/gunsmithing/got-the-rock-island-10mm-commander-working-properly!/msg40214/#msg40214
Thanks Bruno, that's way helpful!
Ken
I've heard mostly good things about their single stacks. I had the fullsize High Capacity model and that thing wouldn't feed to save its life. Trigger was fairly heavy and I did not shoot it well. Traded it in for the Ruger SR1911 10mm but I was ripped off by what they gave me for it. Honestly if it was reliable I would've got a trigger job and kept it.
Thanks Dave, my Rock Ultra FS HC has served me well, and for the price, it's hard to beat
Ken
Rock Island makes a fantastic firearm. It's just a shame they are trying to match everyone else's price. I remember when a standard GI model was $350. I've been looking at those two, as Commander frames are my favorite size 1911. The two I want most though, are a new model Colt DE and a Ruger 10mm 1911.
I agree, my Rock Ultra FS HC 10mm was around 650.00 I think
Thanks
Ken
I've been shooting RIA 1911's for years at my friends gun shop. They shoot great. But he had one, if you let the trigger down to decock it, the hammer would hang up so little you couldnt tell it. While in a holster, the hammer dropped the rest of the way, and the gun went off. No one was hurt and RIA fixed it. I just wont own one.
That being said, I wish Colt would make a Commander size Delta Elite!
Quote from: Overkill338 on November 13 2018 12:14:34 PM MST
I've been shooting RIA 1911's for years at my friends gun shop. They shoot great. But he had one, if you let the trigger down to decock it, the hammer would hang up so little you couldnt tell it. While in a holster, the hammer dropped the rest of the way, and the gun went off. No one was hurt and RIA fixed it. I just wont own one.
That being said, I wish Colt would make a Commander size Delta Elite!
This is not unique to RIA. Every single series 70 1911 I own will do this. I don't know if they will fire or not.
And this is why a 1911 should never be placed in condition 2. Condition 3 or condition 1 are both well proven and perfectly safe. Condition 2 is also well proven...well proven as unsafe.
Quote from: sqlbullet on November 14 2018 08:11:11 AM MST
Quote from: Overkill338 on November 13 2018 12:14:34 PM MST
I've been shooting RIA 1911's for years at my friends gun shop. They shoot great. But he had one, if you let the trigger down to decock it, the hammer would hang up so little you couldnt tell it. While in a holster, the hammer dropped the rest of the way, and the gun went off. No one was hurt and RIA fixed it. I just wont own one.
That being said, I wish Colt would make a Commander size Delta Elite!
This is not unique to RIA. Every single series 70 1911 I own will do this. I don't know if they will fire or not.
And this is why a 1911 should never be placed in condition 2. Condition 3 or condition 1 are both well proven and perfectly safe. Condition 2 is also well proven...well proven as unsafe.
Yeah, I wasnt there when it happened. I always kept my 1911s cocked and locked. Is there any other way?
Quote from: Overkill338 on November 15 2018 12:06:22 AM MST
I always kept my 1911s cocked and locked. Is there any other way?
Exactly!
Quote from: Bruno747 on September 22 2018 05:23:55 PM MDT
I had one of the commanders.
Just be patient, from the reviews I have read, my experience, and videos, the few of these that are running out of the box are unicorns, fully expect it to not run worth a crap to start. What you do from that point forward is up to you. It took me several iterations of things including sending mine back to get it running right.
I believe mine was the 51994 model. There are posts from me detailing everything I needed to do to get mine to run reliably and it was a decent amount of work. Utimately I let it go because I never could find a holster that fit it well and my dan wesson ran so much better with so much less work.
Also now that I no longer have it and am no longer enamored with it, I can honestly say it had bar none, the most ghastly barrel I have ever seen on a gun EVER. If it was used when I got it I would have thought someone sorely mistreated it from what that barrel looked like inside and would have passed.
I'm going through this now with my RIA MS 10mm. I'm not trashing RIA. In the past 6 months, I've had to send 1 S&W and 2 brand new Rugers back to the companies for QA issues. It seems as if the current industry standard is having stuff returned is more lucrative than comprehensive Quality Assurance before it leaves the factory. But I digress.....
Within 20 rounds, my RIA had a binding trigger, spent-round stove pipes, live-round stove pipes, 3-point jams and hammer follow (to half-cock). To be honest, I was so disappointed with sending other guns back and waiting, I elected to give my RIA to a local 1911 guru. According to him, the trigger bow was bent to lessen take up and the sear had a negative angle cut into it. He corrected those issues and performed an action job.
Having lurked here and read Bruno's fixes (among others), I then tuned/polished the extractor and breech face, chamfered and polished the hood/chamber, polished the ramp, installed a flat-bottomed firing pin installed a 26lbs mainspring, and tried a 22lbs recoil spring. It worked pretty well for about 30 rounds before it had a failure to return to full battery. I replaced the 22lbs recoil spring with a 24lbs recoil spring, loaded up some more 200gr coated LCTFPs over 11.8gr of AA9 in virgin brass and went back to the range.
After 8 rounds, I dropped the empty mag and just happened to check for hammer follow and the hammer followed the slide all the way to the firing pin. I then tore the gun down and noticed the disconnect wasn't moving and the trigger travel was shortened. Apparently, I broke it, so I dropped it off to the guru this morning. I have a feeling a Wilson or Ed Brown hammer, sear and disconnect are in my future.
Update: The gunsmith said the frame was interfering with the disconnect. The frame looked fine, but the disconnect was a few degrees off, causing it to fail to function. Never heard of that one. He replaced the disconnect with a Wilson. We shall see.
While I don't own a RIA , I did handle a few years ago when shopping for my first 1911 platform. I specifically was looking for a match grade 1911 chambered in 9mm. I wanted a smooth and mild alloy / steel framed platform to also get my wife involved into handgun. I handled RIA'a , Taurus , SA , and Sig. When all the smoke cleared I went with the SA RO 9mm . Think I payed $725 back in 2015. The SA's are a great compromise of awesome quality and cost value. The RIA's and Taurus felt not "cheap" but just looked and felt of lesser quality. Just recently I bought the Kimber Target II 10mm and side by side against my SA I'd say that the Kimber is just a bit above the SA in build quality, but I also payed $940 for the Kimber.