I have a box of each to load up and test. Obviously, I want to do more than just run them over the chrono. I don't really see much point in clear ballistics jell as it's been done and too expensive for my budget right now. I'm thinking cheap, but fun. Maybe an old bowling ball, lawn mower engine, pieces of Lexan with water jugs in between, etc.
I'll be testing these in a 5" 1911 and a 10mm AR. I expect the AR will send them pretty fast.
So, cheap, easily available, and fun are the criteria (safety too). Thoughts?
If they are the same grain, then what would a chrono tell you anyway? Seems to me the only differences will be due entirely to the bullet shape/profile. In that case, penetration and damage would seem to be the prime differentiators.
The penetrator is a 140gr and defender is 115gr. The front is different as well. The chronograph will tell me what's going on with my loads.
People have shot clear gelatin, water jugs, body armor, ballistic clay, bullet resistant glass,etc, already and the videos are readily available. I was just looking for suggestions as to what might be fun to shoot with these that was out of the ordinary. Not looking for anyone to volunteer their mother in law or anything like that :D
Quote from: Graybeard on June 14 2018 02:26:15 PM MDT
The penetrator is a 140gr and defender is 115gr. The front is different as well. The chronograph will tell me what's going on with my loads.
People have shot clear gelatin, water jugs, body armor, ballistic clay, bullet resistant glass,etc, already and the videos are readily available. I was just looking for suggestions as to what might be fun to shoot with these that was out of the ordinary. Not looking for anyone to volunteer their mother in law or anything like that :D
How about a sister-in-law ;D
Quote from: 5pins on June 14 2018 04:27:56 PM MDT
How about a sister-in-law ;D
While I can actually relate to that suggestion :)) I'll have to pass.
I wonder how these work on feral hogs?
I bet you can get those 115g pills up to an amazing velocity.
Quote from: Randy99CL on July 06 2018 05:21:26 AM MDT
I wonder how these work on feral hogs?
I bet you can get those 115g pills up to an amazing velocity.
Underwood 115gr Xtreme Defender clock in at 1.700fps (muzzle).
I shot a bowling ball with the 140 Lehigh out of a 40SW Baby Eagle. The point of aim was the thumb hole. I figured it would get a little explosive, it didn't. It blew a small hole out of the back side and that was about it until I tried to pick the ball up. Then in fell in pieces. Was kinda disappointed but then the bullet design is meant to work on soft targets, not hard targets. A 3 liter bottle of water wasn't much different. Hopefully these things work more on something like flesh as they are my carry ammo and the Baby Eagle is the carry gun of choice.
Couldn't tell you about these on a hog but I shoot a 7.62x 39 AR I built for varmint hunting. I use their Controlled Chaos bullet. It's devastating is an understatement. I've popped hogs to the 350lb range and none took a step. Just went down like the sky fell on them. Yardages out to 200yds. I haven't stretched out any farther. Accuracy is near one hole at 100 yards. Considering the hogs in S Texas are either carriers of Pseudo- rabies or Brucellosis, we don't pick up, eat, or touch the hogs. Most commonly they are so covered with fleas and ticks you don't get real close to the carcass anyway. So there's no description of the wound channel.
These are very light although fast moving bullets they may not impart their energy to topple a big hog. As in a pass through and it my require some searching for the wounded animal. The frontal area of the WFN of a cast bullet is probably better on Mr. Hog...
I recently built my first AR to take into Texas for some hog hunting. 6.5 Grendel.
Bought a 10mm 1911 and would like use that also if conditions are right; only close carefully aimed shots. Like at a feeder, from a blind.
Randy, if you're going any where near the Texas/ Mexico border, before you go afield, find a creosote bush, pull a bunch of leaves and rub your clothes down with it. The leaves are oily and have a very distinct smell. Hogs can't see very far but they have great noses and great hearing. Since they can't see you, if they can't smell you, all they can do is hear you. You can get real close, sometimes too close. Some of the guys I hunt with don't use a gun at all, they use a Bowie knife. And that my friend is too close for me. The 6.5 is a great gun for hogs in Texas. Just don't load light.
Creosote bush
(http://www.ethnoherbalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Creosote_Larrea_tridentata.jpg)
Quote from: Trapper6L on July 06 2018 05:36:07 PM MDT
Some of the guys I hunt with don't use a gun at all, they use a Bowie knife. And that my friend is too close for me.
Did a dog/knife hunt on a ranch between Burnett & Lampasas TX couple of years ago. Incredibly exhilarating but its a hard core experience. Had a blast but not the type of hunting I want to do a lot of.
Sorry to highjack the thread.
The guy at AP2020 Outdoors Adventures has done a lot of videos of on the Lehigh projectile and he really loves the "fluid transfer monolithic" bullets. He also claims to have taken several hogs with it.
I'd insist on the WFN hardcast if I was in area with Brown Bears, but anywhere else (contiguous US) in the sticks; 10mm 115gr Underwood loaded extreme defender wouldn't give me pause.
Those knife hunts are a level of barbarism I want nothing to do with. But to each his own.
I've always preferred light bullets at high velocity over heavier/slower. I like the increased accuracy (less time to target) and lower recoil. With a flatter trajectory there is more of a chance of hitting your exact aiming point.
So these bullets are right in my ballpark, along with the 6.5 LFPs for my Grendel.
I read an article some years ago from a writer who works on a game ranch in Texas and has witnessed hundreds of hog kills. He said that high velocity bullets kill hogs quicker and more reliably than slower projectiles like 12-gauge slugs, the old 45/70 or 45acp.
Don't confuse fast pistol for fast rifle, there is a big difference there... I'm not saying the 115's won't work from the 10mm, just know that they are what they are... 8)
Quote from: Randy99CL on July 06 2018 11:00:53 PM MDT
Those knife hunts are a level of barbarism I want nothing to do with. But to each his own.
That's a relief; your forbearance means a lot. 8)
Quote from: Randy99CL on July 06 2018 11:00:53 PM MDT
I read an article some years ago from a writer who works on a game ranch in Texas and has witnessed hundreds of hog kills. He said that high velocity bullets kill hogs quicker and more reliably than slower projectiles like 12-gauge slugs, the old 45/70 or 45acp.
You might not want to believe everything you read. Terminal ballistics of rifle rounds and wounding theories are extreme complex but the blanket assertion (by whomever made it) that "high velocity bullets killing hogs quicker and more reliably" is wrong to the point of being beyond absurd. Otherwise people that actually HUNT hogs would use .17 WSM, 220 Swift or 204 Ruger.... Those "high velocity bullets run 3,500fps to 4,000fps. Don't recommend it but your free to try.
270 Winchester is an excellent flat shooting choice (with appropriate ammo selection); but by itself isn't any quicker or reliable a hog killer than a 30-30 Winchester. 12 gauge shotgun loaded with slugs is often the most desired & effective tool to defend against critters with teeth and claws up to a charging 1,400lbs Grizzly, so ability to reliably and quickly put down a 350lbs hog is paltry in comparison. The old 45-70 by the way was very effectively used (unfortunately) to eradicate countless American Bison herds in the 1900th century. That was using old lead bullets on a wild animals tipping the scales north of a ton. 45-70 also used to cleanly harvest all of the Big 5 in Africa (elephant, rhinoceros, Cape buffalo, lion, leopard) so again a 350lbs wild boar isn't much of an obstacle to it.
Light, fast/slow, big yada, yada, yada.... 223 caliber, 308 caliber, 45 caliber, 10mm....The most important variables for quickly and reliably putting down a wild hog or any other game is shot placement, shot placement (yes I said it twice)and then appropriate bullet material & construction for the specific game being hunted. Oh, yea and don't forget shot placement.
Ok I learned something new today, knife hunting hogs, wow
That is barbaric primal poo there, reminds me of a guy I saw hunting cougar on t.v. who shot/wounded and then crawled in (20+ ft) a very small narrow cave (think viet nam tunnel rat only smaller) with a 1911 to finish the job!
Brother if you want to get "up close and personal" I'll back ya up with the 10!
All that being said....
Considering the hogs in S Texas are either carriers of Pseudo- rabies or Brucellosis, we don't pick up, eat, or touch the hogs. Most commonly they are so covered with fleas and ticks you don't get real close to the carcass anyway.
!Filthy swine!
** A friend of mine in Texas regularly rounds up dozens in traps, (uses WiFi to close the pen when the hogs set off sensors without leaving home) keeps a couple for the freezer and sells live hogs to the local butcher.
Knife huntin" hogs, the sport of Kings!