I'm sorry if this has been hashed out before. I tried the search feature and apparently I wasn't using the correct key words.
I'm running a Glock 20 and a Glock 40. Which powder will give me the best velocity?
Thank you,
'Dood
I would say 800X or Longshot, but the experts can answer better than myself
800x is one of the best results producing powders, BUT ( big but ) , it meters like crap and each drop should be weighed ... which is why I don't use it.
IMO, the couple out there that will do almost any thing you want are Blue Dot and #9
also read this thread; http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo/longshot-or-blue-dot/
For super accurate midrange loads, my favorite is 10.4gr Blue Dot under a 180gr XTP or HAP
Magnumdood, welcome to the forum.
The powders that yield best velocity are LongShot, IMR800X, Blue Dot & AA#9 for the heavy hitters in 10mm.
Then the next step to the 10mm are Power Pistol, BE-86, AA#7, CFE Pistol, Auto Comp, Silhouette, Shooters World MAJOR PISTOL = LOVEX D037-01
Some of the above mentioned powders are more economical than others for velocity yield vs. using less powder = more bang for your $$$
There are many more powders (faster burning) that can be used but are probably better suited to target play.
I'd suggest a good study of the documentations listed here as you will not find this information in any of the handloading books; http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo-pull-downs/ (http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo-pull-downs/)
Gentlemen,
Thank you very much for the replies! Thank YOU The_Shadow (Super Moderator) for not chewing me out for posting a question I'm certain has been debated on this board many many times. I very much appreciate the help.
'Dood
We aren't much for the chewing out. We have all been the new guy before. Search works great for some people and not for others.
Once on another forum I got into a "discussion" with a moderator. There was one very common question asked, and the mod would always reply "Just search for [common question]". I pointed out that the problem with that was this: A search for [common question] returned several hundred threads of the moderator telling people to "just search for [common question]", meaning no one could search for and find the answer anymore. :o
Glad you are here. I second the powders mentioned. I have used all of them except 800X, auto-comp and Lovex. I tend to favor lately Blue Dot and BE-86.
As mentioned above, if you're chasing speed 800X and Longshot seem to be the winners. BlueDot and Power pistol work well too, just a little slower. BlueDot can make for a very accurate load. I recently posted some chronograph results for Power Pistol, LongShot, and 800X loads here http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo/chrony-results-for-10mm-ar-and-kimber-tle-ii/msg75017/#msg75017
very helpful info, Thanks folks!
A pet peeve with me is when some new guy asks for load help on some forums and get the "use the search button" spanking. It's like we still only have the same powders as in 1988 and none of the powder companies ever develop new magic dust. ;D
If we don't discuss bullets/powder/primers/data/technique on occasion we might as well abandon the Internet and go back to reading magazines.
FWIW I'm using a lot of BE-86. Meters well, velocities are decent, and accuracy is great. If I want top velocity from a .40+ bullet I'll break out the .44. :o
The only problem I have with Longshot and BE-86 is they eat the coating from Powder Coated, cast bullets and probably degrades the powder in the process.
Longshot is especially bad about this.
I'm currently loading Blue Dot.
I've ordered a plain base gas check maker in 40 caliber and plan to chase a few loads in the 10 MM and .40 S&W with aforesaid Longshot and BE-86.
Quote from: Timberhawk on May 20 2018 04:42:41 PM MDT
The only problem I have with Longshot and BE-86 is they eat the coating from Powder Coated, cast bullets and probably degrades the powder in the process.
Longshot is especially bad about this.
What!!!??? I just loaded up 150 rounds of cast PC bullets over Longshot. How did you come to this conclusion, Timberhawk? Can you upload an image? Was this "eating the powder coating" during storage or during firing the round? Never heard of this before.
I guess I'm the black sheep in this group. VV N105 for me.
Tony Rumore
Tromix
Quote from: TonyRumore on May 24 2018 01:14:05 PM MDT
I guess I'm the black sheep in this group. VV N105 for me.
Tony Rumore
Tromix
Don't hold back with the load data. Very curious.
Quote from: Pablo on May 24 2018 01:17:37 PM MDT
Quote from: TonyRumore on May 24 2018 01:14:05 PM MDT
I guess I'm the black sheep in this group. VV N105 for me.
Tony Rumore
Tromix
Don't hold back with the load data. Very curious.
Ditto, details please?
This is a PC'ed bullet after being covered up with Longshot for two weeks.
Most of these kernels will not just brush off, but are stuck on like glue.
BE-86 is nearly as bad.
[attachment deleted by admin]
I like Blue Dot, but it produces a fireball the size of a basketball!
Always get comments from the other shooters on the range, especially the guys next to me.
Yes, the solvents in the powder can attack the poly paint coatings. It is one reason I haven't started PC'ing my own cast bullets yet.
I've had PC'ed boolits covered with Unique, Universal, Blue Dot, Red Dot, Green Dot, 2400, Longshot, BE-86 and AA1680 for over a year and a half.
Longshot, Be-86 and AA1680 were bought 18 to 24 months ago. Everything else is older powder from the 1990s.
Longshot and BE-86 are the only ones to be effected by the PC coating.
All the other powders don't even have one flake, ball or kernel adhered to the boolit.
The Longshot and BE-86 boolits have 2 and 3 layers of flakes stuck to the boolits.
The older powders seem to be immune to the coating. Maybe it has something to do with the new manufacturing process.
I spoke with an Alliance Powder rep by email and he said "Sport Pistol" is the only powder that is specifically formulated for PC'ed boolits.
Sadly, Sports Pistol is a faster powder that seems to be formulated for mild loads in everything.
If you are that worried about it, stand them up and static electric spray them. Then the bases won't be coated, resulting in no powder interactions.
Quote from: sqlbullet on May 26 2018 09:36:02 AM MDT
If you are that worried about it, stand them up and static electric spray them. Then the bases won't be coated, resulting in no powder interactions.
it's too easy to shake and bake them.
I've got a plain base gas check maker that I'm going to use with aluminum checks. should solve the problem.
Quote from: Timberhawk on May 26 2018 04:37:05 PM MDT
I've got a plain base gas check maker that I'm going to use with aluminum checks. should solve the problem.
That works great too.
Quote from: Magnumdood on May 17 2018 01:14:17 AM MDT
I'm sorry if this has been hashed out before. I tried the search feature and apparently I wasn't using the correct key words.
I'm running a Glock 20 and a Glock 40. Which powder will give me the best velocity?
Thank you,
'Dood
From a poll that I conducted 15-Jun-2018 on FB in 'Reloading Central' group, here are the results:
Ques: What do you use for powder in 5" 1911 10mm with 200 gr JHP for SD/HD purpose?
Longshot
+14
CFE Pistol
+8
Titegroup
+5
Unique
+3
Power Pistol
+2
BE-86
+2
A #7
+1
W231
+1
Quote from: Bob Lee Swagger on June 18 2018 02:10:45 AM MDT
Quote from: Magnumdood on May 17 2018 01:14:17 AM MDT
I'm sorry if this has been hashed out before. I tried the search feature and apparently I wasn't using the correct key words.
I'm running a Glock 20 and a Glock 40. Which powder will give me the best velocity?
Thank you,
'Dood
From a poll that I conducted 15-Jun-2018 on FB in 'Reloading Central' group, here are the results:
Ques: What do you use for powder in 5" 1911 10mm with 200 gr JHP for SD/HD purpose?
Longshot
+14
CFE Pistol
+8
Titegroup
+5
Unique
+3
Power Pistol
+2
BE-86
+2
A #7
+1
W231
+1
I'm surprised that tight group came in so high. ? And no mention of Blue Dot??
Me too, love that BD, regardless of the fireball the size of my head. As for a carry load, my prefferance is is a factory built, flash suppressed powder; but to each his own : )
You know, you really can't ask what is your favorite powder for 10mm. I use a half a dozen. Depends on the load, the bullet, the use for the load, the gun and so forth. For my favorite heavy hitting load which is 200g XTP I use 12.5 gr of Lovex ds037.2 which is a great powder, similar to AA9, but not exactly. I average around 1270 fps with this load. You MUST work up to heavy loads like this slowly. I only shoot this in my GP-40 (Grand Power 40). Not your average action at all. I believe it is stronger than most, however I really like how it is much kinder with launching the brass, it only travels around 6 feet or so. I don't believe I could get this performance safely without the GP and the Lovex powder.
I should mention that this is with Starline brass and S&B primers which I have been using for the last 5 years at least.
[attachment deleted by admin]
a slow work up is critical, at least in my book, Thanks PC!
Quote from: Kenk on June 18 2018 11:23:08 PM MDT
Me too, love that BD, regardless of the fireball the size of my head. As for a carry load, my prefferance is is a factory built, flash suppressed powder; but to each his own : )
I've started competing again in USPSA and IDPA. I carried a Glock 20 on duty, and have a Glock 40 fitted with a Bar-Sto barrel and am using it, for now, to shoot competition. The 9mm guys load their ammo down to where it barely operated the slide, and they can shoot a lot faster than I can. However, I knock pepper poppers loose and knock over steel plates on rebar tripods. I'm sort of entertainment for them to watch, but I'm getting better. I can't afford to buy factory ammo to practice and compete with. I have a Dillon 650 with the auto-case feed and a Mr. Bullet auto bullet feeder. I can reliably produce 800 rounds an hour rather easily. I just have to keep the powder, bullet and brass hoppers full. I'm going to purchase either an STI 10mm built on a 1911 platform or a Les Baer Combat Master.
I guess I could ask this question here also; who makes the best 10mm competition pistol? I have enough $$$ to buy the best if I can identify it. For competition it sure isn't the Glock 40.
There are some who compete with the Tangoflio guns and some with Glocks, but if you are into 1911 styles STI would be good but don't forget about Fusion Arms as Mr. Serva also builds quality 1911 10mm guns.
Quote from: Magnumdood on August 05 2018 04:23:28 PM MDT
I guess I could ask this question here also; who makes the best 10mm competition pistol? I have enough $$$ to buy the best if I can identify it. For competition it sure isn't the Glock 40.
For a Limited pistol, hands down SV 2011. (Total custom build to your specs)
For a Single Stack gun, Dan Wesson http://danwessonfirearms.com/product/razorback-rz-10/
Jeff
Thank you again gentlemen. I will explore the other options you've given me.
I completely agree that a no-holds-barred build would be SVI for me. And if I had any kind of budget, Tanfoglio.
But...
I gotta question why. A no-holds-barred competition build is for winning competitions, and to be honest has evolved to where it is not great for other purposes. And given the rules and power factor requirements of competition, there is no advantage to 10mm Auto and there IS a recoil penalty which will result in slower times.
It would be cool. But I would not drop the money on an SVI competition build in 10mm.
https://www.doublealpha.biz/uspsa-gear-report
Here's a survey of the 2016 nationals. Seems that the 180 gr Bullets were the most popular. Most of those guys are shooting .40 through SVI's.
I don't see why you couldn't just download 10mm for the gun games. The added cost would just be the price of brass. 1k 10mm starline brass is $162 w/ free shipping. 1k 40 cal starline brass is $154.50.
I called STI today and only spoke with a secretary/receptionist. She said they don't produce anything in 10mm anymore. I probably need to talk to one of the gunsmiths. Tangoflio has some interesting looking pistols that can come in 10mm. I've never even held a Tangoflio firearm whereas I have shot several high end STI offerings, all in 9mm. I compete to hone my personal skills. I doubt I would have a full open pistol built, but am open to the limited class. I just don't like the compensator on the end, although if any cartridge would benefit greatly from it it would be the 10mm. I'm as competitive as the next guy, but I'm also 58 and don't harbor anyillusions that my sight or reflexes can even come close to the youngsters. There's two 17 year olds who make it to all the local meets; they SMOKE everyone there. Of course, local talent ain't all that talented when compared to nationally recognized shooters.
On the 10mm issue; I realize I am saddling myself with a disadvantage due to recoil. I just really like the 10mm.
i have a witness match and a stock 2 in 10mm and they are the most comfortable double stack pistols I own
Just to keep everyone who assisted me updated, I talked with a gunsmith at Tangoflio this morning and have gotten the ball rolling. I picked a 2011 in 10mm with a 6" bull barrel and Trijicon red dot and a few other choices. He's sending me an itemized list of the pistol build tomorrow. I'm supposed to look it over and call him back to hammer out the rest of the details (add or subtract options). Sounds like I'm gonna be a happy camper when this process is complete. Any suggestions on compensators? Hanging off the end? Integral to the barrel and slide like the Glock 20C?
My mistake...it wasn't Tangoflio, it was Fusion Arms. The base Pistol I'm working from is the STI/SVI 2011.
Quote from: Magnumdood on August 07 2018 03:48:02 PM MDT
My mistake...it wasn't Tangoflio, it was Fusion Arms. The base Pistol I'm working from is the STI/SVI 2011.
If you go SV, make sure you order the steel grip. Well worth the money.
I'm going with the SV for sure. Fusion Arms is the only company I've found that will build me whatever I want...completely custom. Now I've gotta be smart enough to ask for the right options. I need to read all the rules and regulations for IDPA and USPSA to configure this pistol so that they'll let me compete even if I break a couple of rules. Local matches are usually run pretty loosely; anyone who wants to shoot, can. The bigger matches that attract shooters from across the country are sticklers for the rules.
I have been an USPSA RO for going on twenty years. Last 5-6 years I've been working the chrono stage for our western PA section, rather than chase shooters half my age around a stage.
If you have any rules questions, feel free to ask.
Jeff
Thanks Jeff,
I shot a small local match last weekend and they let me use my Glock40 even though it has a Bar-Sto fitted barrel that protrudes from the slide far enough to allow 3 ports cut in the end of the barrel to clear the slide. The guy who talked me into going is getting pretty in to it, and I'm sure I'l attend a larger shoot at some point. At the small meet a couple of guys had STI full blown race guns shooting with limited pistols and even a few stock pistols. There weren't enough shooters to break it up into classes.
The question I have is how do I stay in the limited class? Can I shoot 38 Super in limited?
You can shoot almost any open sight, non ported/comped pistol, 9mm Luger (9X19, 9NATO, etc) and up.
The difference is scoring. Bore diameter .400 and up, (40 S&W, 10mm, 45 acp, 44 mag, etc) can be scored "Major caliber" as long as they make the minimum 165 power factor. (Bullet weight X velocity divided by 1000)
Anything below .400 bore diameter is scored "Minor" power factor (125-164.9) even if they make major.
The scoring is:
Major : A= 5 points, C= 4 points, D= 2 points
Minor : A= 5 Points, C= 3 points, D= 1 point
If you git all A zone hits on the targets, it's irrelevant if you are shooting major or minor. But it's the C and more importantly the D hits where it matters. If your shooting major on a 100 point stage and score 15 A hits and 5 C hits your only down 5 points. Shooting Minor your down 10, the equivalent of a miss. And D Hits...that's where it really hurts. :-[
I tell everyone just starting out to get a 9mm, (CZ, EAA, Glock, S&W, etc) some 140mm mag extensions, and shoot Limited minor.
Why? Several reasons.
Cost. 9mm is cheap so you can afford to practice more.
Your just learning, Your going to be at or near the bottom of the score sheet anyway so scoring Major/Minor is irrelevant.
Mag changes suck.
Shooting Minor forces you into an accuracy mindset.
And one more thing. When your at the matches, ask those guys with the "full blown race guns" if you can check them out at the safety table. Ask lots of questions, and be prepared to test fire those guns, cause 99.9% of USPSA shooters are very proud of their race guns and the little things they've done to them to personalize them...and they love showing them off.
After a season or so, you'll have a better idea of exactly what you want to do. Weather it's building a race gun of your own, getting into another division, or staying where your at.
Sorry this is so long winded but I'm old, I tend to ramble. ;D
Jeff
Quote from: fltbed on August 11 2018 09:41:06 PM MDT
...Sorry this is so long winded but I'm old, I tend to ramble. ;D
Jeff
Not at all, Jeff, not at all. Your "ramblings" contain a tremendous amount of information that will aid me in the configuration of my first limited pistol.
Than you very much for taking the time to respond wit such a well thought out post!
Thanks again,
Ralph