Just purchased some 135 grain 40/10mm Federal HST pulled bullets and was checking if anybody else has tried these bullets yet.The bullets have not arrived yet. Have and will not find reloading data on these bullets and was going to do some testing.Current powders i have are power pistol,longshot and 800 X and was thinking starting around 9.5 grains of power pistol and working up.Had good luck and accuracy with the 135 grain nosler with and 10.1 grains with a coal of 1.255.Do not know if these bullets are longer then the nosler 135 gr. and will hold up to speeds of 1500 + unlike the noslers do.If these bullets hold up to that type of speed they may be a very good self defense round and hunting round.
Any information would be appreciated and Merry Christmas to all.
Thanks
I wish I had some info for you. I don't really. I do suspect to some extent the HST bullets will be tougher in construction than the Nosler bullets. Not on purpose, but because of general design parameters. I am very curious to hear about your future results. I would be very interested in a pic of the expanded bullet after an encounter with water jugs, and the higher the velocity, the more I'm interested.
Good Luck with the venture!
What gun will you be launching them from? Stock barrel?
Any of PP, LS, or 800-X, should be relatively superb for the 135gr bullet. Depending on the gun, both Longshot and 800-X should get you to or beyond 1600fps.
Forgot to mention; The_Shadow and I have disected a total of 5 of Underwood's 10mm 135gr Nosler bullet load that Underwood claims will do 1600fps (they do, and higher).
Those loads use new Starline brass. COL ranged from 1.249"-1.252". The powder used in all Underwood 10mm loads is 800-X. For the 135gr Nosler bullet load the charge weight ranged from 11.4-11.8 grains. I have no idea what primer was used. Hope this gives you a good clue of where you may want to begin your venture.
You can view the Underwood disection thread by The_Shadow here; http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/underwood's-lineup-135155165180220/ (http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/underwood's-lineup-135155165180220/)
You can view the Underwood disection thread by me here; http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/finally-5-underwood-10mm-ammo-disections/ (http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/finally-5-underwood-10mm-ammo-disections/)
I've never been impressed with the Hydro-Shocks (since they were first introduced in the 80's). They are designed for controlled expansion at lower velocities. My guess, having some experience with factory level powered rounds, is they would just splat at higher velocities. This may not be in itself a bad thing, if they can hold together. I'd have to see some results in tissue.
Quote from: DM1906 on December 25 2012 09:12:13 PM MSTI've never been impressed with the Hydro-Shocks
Isn't there a 135gr HST?
Quote from: REDLINE on December 25 2012 10:21:03 PM MST
Quote from: DM1906 on December 25 2012 09:12:13 PM MSTI've never been impressed with the Hydro-Shocks
Isn't there a 135gr HST?
Apparently, since he has some pull-downs.
The 240 grain HST in 45acp expands exceptionally well at standard velocities as well as +P velocities through water. I am curious to know if a 180 grain would expand similarly or if it would peel the petals all the way back from the high velocity, say 1200-1250fps.
Here is an Underwood Gold Dot 180 grain DE 10mm load (1240fps) next to a standard pressure 240 grain HST in 45acp. Water jug test. 4 jugs for 10mm, 3 for 45acp.
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REDLINE
I will be using Glock 20 with a 6" storm lake barrel for testing and probably use power pistol,Have LS in stock and have never used yet and do not know where to start with LS ? I have tried 800x 135 grain nosler up to 13.5 gr and backed off to 12.8 gr and chrono up to 1713 with 6" barrel.
DM1906
I have also tried the Federal Hydro Shock and was not impressed,The HS has a pin in the center and the HST does not,Different bullet design,I researched the HST online and appears only Law enforcement can purchase the complete rounds,The expansion appears to be awesome and appears to be like the black talon bullet.
I have yet to see anybody try these bullets in a 10mm, 40 SW only and sure someone has tried these little puppies out but have not found any resource's yet.Hope to receive order in later this week or first of next week and give it a try and see if they can withstand the velocity of the mighty 10mm.Just got back from NY working Hurricane Sandy and have Honey do list first ::)
once that's complete head to the shop and play time, I will keep you posted and if anybody know's a starting point for LL load and 135 gr let me know?
Deadguy
Good Pic, That picture of bullet on right of the HST is what i am hoping to get with the 135 gr.We will see if the petals hold together at 1500+,If so might have found good self defense round. At time of order no 180 grain found in HST 40 cal bullet.Love to try the 180 gr. also.These are all pulled bullets and never tried pulled bullets before.
My curiosity is peaked.
Hi guys, this is my first post but I've been lurking here for a while.
1000 180 gr pulled HSTs just arrived at my house this evening. I already have some longshot and CCI 300s, but I'm waiting for dies and brass so it may be a month or so until I can start working up a load. I am currently in law school and am just getting started reloading, but have been researching and reading on the subject for a long time now.
Anyways, I haven't seen anyone really push these bullets to see how they'll perform at 1200+ fps. I wish that I could send some to tnoutdoors9 to test in the simtest with denim after getting them worked up, but I doubt that he would dare shoot them! I wouldn't blame him, I wouldn't shoot just anyone's handloads myself.
I am going to be shooting them out of a Gen3 G20SF with the stock barrel. I have both the stock 17lb spring and a 22lb brass stacker/ISMI setup.
My plan is to compare the overall dimensions to the XTP, and if they are similar, start at the minimum book load for 180gr. XTP and work up from there.
I am at the great disadvantage of not having a chrono. I won't be able to acquire one until at least next summer (birthday) due to living on a student budget. My wife was kind enough to allow me to buy $500+ of reloading stuff, for which I had to "trade" some other toys for.
I will just have to be careful, cautious, and methodical as I work up this load. As far as I can tell, this is uncharted territory that I am stepping into. I'm not planning on going "nuclear", but a nice warm load ~1250 FPS load should be doable.
Welcome to the forum RMM.
Good luck on your experiments. I would suggest you try AA#9 until you have a chrony. It should push a 180gr bullet above 1200 and do so without pressure concerns. You will likely run out of case capacity before you have pressure issues with that powder.
Longshot will do it too, but to explore the upper end you really need a chronograph to tell you what is happening. Working up an above max load without one is kinda like heading into trial without deposing the witnesses. You could really get hammered.
sqlbullet,
Thank you for the kind welcome.
It looks like AA#9 should be able to develop ~1200 FPS without exceeding max book loads.
No. 9 HDY 180gr XTP 13.5 gr. 1.250 COAL 1242 FPS 34,100 PSI - Standard LPP
I think that I'll use the longshot for "mid power loads" to start with then move to AA#9 for the "max power" stuff.
What are your thoughts on using magnum primers with AA #9? I have read that several people think it is beneficial with the densely packed and slower
burning AA#9. However, I have never seen any published 10mm data where a magnum primer was recommended.
I don't find any need for magnum primers in any 10mm load. A few people think it helps somehow, but I haven't found any evidence of that myself. Pretty much any modern standard LP primer should work fine with AA9 in the 10mm.
If you don't mind disclosing your state, there might be a member who could loan you a chrono. You may also want to check some of the other firearm and reloading forums. Never hurts to offer some brass. ;)
I am currently in Seattle, Washington.
Like Yondering, I don't use magnum primers in any 10mm loads. My rifle loads all get magnum primers, but they are all touching off big, 40, 60, 80 grain charges of ball powders.
I might use magnum primers in 357 or 44 magnum with AA#9, but I would test both ways to see if it decreased the extreme spread before I settled on a primer type.
Quote from: RMM on February 06 2013 10:39:44 PM MSTI wish that I could send some to tnoutdoors9 to test in the simtest with denim
That would be awesome, but like you suggested...
Welcome to the forum!
Where are you guys buying pulled bullets from?
I got them from RMR Bullets, but they sold out pretty fast. Gotta keep your eyes peeled.
Here are a few pictures of the 180 Gr. HST, next to a 124 Gr. 9mm for comparison :D
The pictures aren't that great (phone camera, low light, slightly out of focus).
[attachment deleted by admin]
Just thought I'd post some quick measurements. 8)
Bullet Dia. at base: 0.400 in.
Bullet tip dia.: 0.296 (approximate, not all were the same)
Length: 0.644 in.
Does anybody know where I can find or have the length measurements for the 180 and 200 gr. XTP?
And a few case measurements (measured just above the extractor groove):
Underwood 165 gr.
Unfired: 0.4205 in.
Fired: 0.431 in.
COAL: 1.246 in.
PMC 200 gr.
Unfired: ? Will have to see if I have any more
Fired: 0.429 in.
Quote from: RMM on February 16 2013 10:42:48 PM MSTDoes anybody know where I can find or have the length measurements for the 180 and 200 gr. XTP?
I don't happen to have any 180gr or 200gr XTP at the moment, but the 155gr XTP bullets I have come out to a length of .5515" - .5520" and a diameter of .3995".
Thanks for the info!
I'm just trying to figure out how long the XTPs are because there is a lot of book data for them. If I can't find anything I'm going to start with 200 gr. load data just to be safe.
I also picked up some AA #9 and Power Pistol last week. I'm still waiting on backordered dies so it may be a few weeks before I get anything loaded. I'm also waiting on brass from Starline, but I've got about 50 once-fired casings that I could use to start with.
The strange part for me is I could swear I had a few new unloaded 200gr XTP bullets laying around, but can't find them for the life of me to measure them for you. If I come across them I'll put up some measurement numbers on them for you.
180 gr XTP: 0.618"
200 gr XTP: 0.676"
Thanks for the measurements!
Looks like the 180 gr. HST length is about right in the middle of the two XTPs. .618"+.676"=1.294"/2=.647"
The 180 gr HST measured approximately .644".
I am excited to see what these bullets will do when pushed 200+ fps faster than their 40 S&W factory loading. I wonder if they will completely peel back to the core ala the GoldDot "starfish", or if the cannelature will prevent further expansion. Maybe they'll blow apart. I guess we won't know until we try!
If anyone that actually has access to some sim-test or ballistic gel would like to load a few of these up and test them I'd be happy to send some your way, for the sake of science (and to satisfy my curiosity). I am not interested in sending any loaded rounds for obvious safety and liability reasons.
I'd sure like to give that a try. I'll PM you my address.
I wonder what, if any, difference there is in bearing surface. The length and weight of the projectile aren't anywhere near as important to pressure as the bearing surface. It shouldn't be far out of line for other 180 gr JHP, though.
I got the bullets today. I'll start at a moderate, mid-level load that I've used for several other 10mm bullets and then work up. I'm pretty excited because I've never really heard of this bullet being loaded into 10mm. I'll send you back a few of something to play with as soon as I get a chance to hit the post office.
Quote from: Raggedyman on March 12 2013 06:26:24 PM MDT
I got the bullets today. I'll start at a moderate, mid-level load that I've used for several other 10mm bullets and then work up. I'm pretty excited because I've never really heard of this bullet being loaded into 10mm. I'll send you back a few of something to play with as soon as I get a chance to hit the post office.
Great! I'm glad they made it ok. No hurry on sending anything back. I'm also excited to see how they perform.
Posted results for the first HST test in my gel tests thread.
Quote from: Raggedyman on April 02 2013 01:38:36 PM MDT
Posted results for the first HST test in my gel tests thread.
Rock on! Thanks for all of your work testing these out and posting the video!
Looks like they held together pretty good at ~1200 FPS. No major fragmentation that I could see. Did the petals peel back to the cannelure? Any plans for a 1300 FPS test? ;)
Thanks. Yeah, it looks like expansion stopped right at the cannelure. Hard to get a pic in there. I believe I will go for 1,300 fps. 9.6 gr of 800-X ought to get me right in that neighborhood without even getting up to the max listed in the Hornady book.
Quote from: Raggedyman on April 02 2013 02:47:43 PM MDT
Thanks. Yeah, it looks like expansion stopped right at the cannelure. Hard to get a pic in there. I believe I will go for 1,300 fps. 9.6 gr of 800-X ought to get me right in that neighborhood without even getting up to the max listed in the Hornady book.
(Not asking for an ETA)
Are you still planning on testing the HST at 1300 FPS?
Absolutely. I just want to cycle through some of the other loads first.