Posted this on the Glock ID forum, but apparently there were less 10mm fans than I thought. So I am reposting it here:
So why do we think the 10mm made such a great comeback from near extinction?
The FBI agents carried a loaded down version of it. The FBI Marksmanship Training Unit used a Colt Delta Elite to test the original Norma Power loads. They determined the 10mm had too much muzzle blast and recoil for the average FBI agent, so the 10mm was downloaded to 10mm "light," which is basically a .40 S&W load.
When the FBI dropped it for the .40 cal (some older agents were still permitted to carry the 10mm, which was also chambered in the FBI MP 5's), the round was near extinct. Colt pulled the 10mm out of the water with their refusal to stop manufacturing the Delta Elite. Glock kept the 10mm out of the water with it's Gen G20 model.
Even so, the round floundered. It had been carried by some police agencies and then was dropped for other calibers, mostly the .40. Ammunition manufacturing companies stopped making the round, with only a few companies continuing to offer it, mostly in the 10mm "light" version. Double Tap ammo was a boutique ammo company which made a better version of the 10mm compared to the mainstream ammo companies and their light loads.
But why the 10mm comeback? Is it due to the fact that the .40 caliber is now losing popularity?
Is the 10mm popular as a "niche" round for hunters and hikers?
Why the 10mm and not the .50 AE?
Has the cost of 10mm come down to make it more popular?
Did the introduction of more boutique ammo companies like Buffalo Bore and Underwood bring the 10mm back?
Yes with the FBI dropping the S&W models, the 10mm was no longer a contract offering, so the numbers of 10mm guns and ammo dropped.
However many 10mm fans knew of the power the 10mm bring to the party. We continuously asking for new 10mm guns and ammo, Mike McNett of Double Tap ammo was also a huge fan and started loading 10mm ammo and his business grew because his ammo was far better than the big commercial establishments. This also help fuel the fire for more 10mm enthusiast searching for more guns,
Companies like Buffalo Bore, SwampFox and Underwood also came along to bring full power 10mm ammo that also raised more awareness over time.
The continuous asking and pestering the gun makers had some like Rock River, Colt, Ruger, Sig and more recently Highpoint to produce new guns.
Hunters knowing the power is sufficient for many game animals, and firearms like the Glock having 3 models and plenty ammo capacity helps to maintain its popularity!
I do my part to bug the ammo makers bullet makers and gun makers to bring new and possibly better things to market.
Kimber and Springfield have just come out with some new models.
Looks like all the pestering is working!
I don't know but I'm glad it has. It has always made some sense to me because it is such a versatile round. Nice to see lots of platforms and a great range of factory ammo. I still like 9mm, but would probably never buy a 45 again if I could get the same gun in 10mm.
The market for handguns of all kinds has been extraordinarily good for a lot of years with the Democrats in power. When you can sell everything you make you do not spend much time or money on R&D. I have been told that the gun companies got caught with huge inventories thinking that Hillary would be elected.
I think that now they have the time and production space to do some R&D and bring out new products that many have been asking for for many years.
What a great question. Been following the 10mm story since Jeff Cooper started writing about it in the 1980's. Got my first one about 5 years ago. Since then the 40 has come, peaked and is on it's way down. Same for the 357 Sig. The 45 is forever. 45 Super and the Rowland are custom propositions. As a long time reloader (48 years now) and experimenter there are 2 semi auto pistol cartridges that have a unique trait IMO. That is the 9mm and the 10mm. You can rev up a 9mm from SAAMI standard to NATO standard to +P standard and all the way to +P+ pretend standard. As long as the gun and components are up to it, nothing bad happens even when pressures go way up. The 10mm's SAAMI standard is already revved up and proper guns are fine with that. Like the 9mm, the 10mm can be loaded from mild to wild with nothing bad happening. The 40 and its guns won't put up with that and neither will the Sig round. The 357 Sig has been downloaded to 9mm +P+ velocities so it's far from it's youth. Hot rod the 45 and it will blow and/or quickly beat the gun to death. But the 9mm and 10mm (done properly... this is not a challenge or necessarily a good idea) can be run from idle to flat out wide open with a lot of tolerance not found in other semi auto cartridges. I have shot nuclear 10mm loads and do not like them at all. Glock smiles scare me. But those red hot factory loads just keep shooting and shooting and shooting. Some guys love those loads and all is well. If you shoot 9mm guns and 10mm guns you have all the bases covered.
So if I had to make a guess why the 10mm made it and is growing it would have to be for the same reason the 9mm made it and is growing.
Strange, I've wanted a 10mm for several years, but if I ask myself "why?", I can't come up with a clear reason. It may have to do with being able to share projectiles and dies with my 40 cals. My SR1911 is a pleasure to shoot and is so surprisingly accurate. So I've got no regrets, and am considering other 10mms as well. I've drunk the kool-aide and there's no turning back.
Because women prefer men packing the longer cartridge with respectable diameter?
Quote from: SPDSR on February 24 2018 09:07:58 PM MST
Because women prefer men packing the longer cartridge with respectable diameter?
Lol...could be!
So from the above responses....versatility (mild to wild) and guns that can handle it? Is this the reason the tn mike mike is on it's way back?
Is this a fad? Or do shooters just like something different? I know I am bored with my 45 ACP pistols. I still carry a Springfield XDS in 45 because of the compatibility, but I don't bother bringing my 45's to the range anymore.
I think 10mm is here to stay now. It will take a fade in the demand for guns/ammo to be put on the back-burner now. IMO our dollars should also go to the places that kept it going and at the proper 10mm level. Every so often throw a few dollars to these 10mm guys:
Underwood Ammo, Buffalo Bore Ammo, Reed's Ammo, PBR Ammo, Doubletap Ammo, Sig Sauer Ammo, etc...
Glock, EAA, Sig Sauer, Springfield, Ruger, Armscor/RI, Kimber, Colt, Dan Wesson, etc...
If Springfield fields the XD 10mm this year I will throw them a few bones! ;)
I my reply to your post on GID ( This was the first post I had made in the GID forum in long time )
When I first saw the Colt Delta Elite back in the 80's I knew I wanted one, however it took me a long time before it actually happened. Got my G20 Gen 4 last spring and it was everything that I hoped it would be and more. Not sure if the G29 or the G40 will be the next one in the safe, but there will be more.
Funny thing is I don't care for the metric system, but my safe is filling up with 9 and 10 mm's.
Quote from: CurtisM on February 25 2018 07:20:09 AM MST
I my reply to your post on GID ( This was the first post I had made in the GID forum in long time )
When I first saw the Colt Delta Elite back in the 80's I knew I wanted one, however it took me a long time before it actually happened. Got my G20 Gen 4 last spring and it was everything that I hoped it would be and more. Not sure if the G29 or the G40 will be the next one in the safe, but there will be more.
Funny thing is I don't care for the metric system, but my safe is filling up with 9 and 10 mm's.
I just saw your response over on GID Curtis. For me it will be the other way around...G20 first and then a Delta Elite.
I should have purchased the Delta years ago.
Quote from: Intercooler on February 25 2018 07:01:31 AM MST
I think 10mm is here to stay now. It will take a fade in the demand for guns/ammo to be put on the back-burner now. IMO our dollars should also go to the places that kept it going and at the proper 10mm level. Every so often throw a few dollars to these 10mm guys:
Underwood Ammo, Buffalo Bore Ammo, Reed's Ammo, PBR Ammo, Doubletap Ammo, Sig Sauer Ammo, etc...
Glock, EAA, Sig Sauer, Springfield, Ruger, Armscor/RI, Kimber, Colt, Dan Wesson, etc...
If Springfield fields the XD 10mm this year I will throw them a few bones! ;)
I agree IC...let's support the companies who supported us!
Back when the D&D Bren Ten was coming about I was very enthusiastic about the gun and the cartridge and its ballistics. However I continued my research and waited because at that time I didn't even own a semi auto pistol only revolvers. I watched intently as S&W started their production of the 10xx series and decided 1989 the 1006 was going to be the one for me! I was glad I waited and took delivery of it Mar 1990. I had even collected some 10mm brass as shot mostly from HK MP5's that the FBI and Navy Seals were kind enough to leave at the range. I had ordered my RCBS dies (not Bren Ten marked) but they were 10mm only and the seater die was too long to crimp 40S&W which came about shortly afterwards.
The Smith & Wesson 10xx series proved to be a heavy duty robust 10mm platform...many LE agencies adopted the various models.
I avoided the Delta Elite because it was Single Action and it held one less round...
Oh well as time when on I started collecting several 10mm guns, was on the hook to buy the VLTOR which never did materilize but used that money to purchase a real Bren Ten. Now fast forward to current tiimes I am patiently waiting on Elite Armament to build the CSP "Combat Service Pistol" which will be for all practical purposes a Bren Ten but with a different magazine...
I am inside the first 25 of the first 50 scheduled to be produced... ;D
I'm not sure why either as there's really nothing no one didn't know before now. Ammo is still expensive compared to 9MM and not as easy to find as .45ACP, but there has been more offerings such as the Sig and Grand Power. I'm glad though and I'm on the list for a reproduction of the Bren Ten from Chuck Warner too.
Quote from: The_Shadow on February 25 2018 09:09:49 AM MST....
I am inside the first 25 of the first 50 scheduled to be produced... ;D
;D
8)
Ditto
Quote from: Sonny10MM on February 25 2018 09:18:08 AM MST
I'm not sure why either as there's really nothing no one didn't know before now. Ammo is still expensive compared to 9MM and not as easy to find as .45ACP, but there has been more offerings such as the Sig and Grand Power. I'm glad though and I'm on the list for a reproduction of the Bren Ten from Chuck Warner too.
OK where are the details on this reproduction?!
The one thing that has changed since introduction is the intended use. If I recall, originally it was touted only as a more powerful personal defence round. The recognition that it was suitable for hunting small and medium game and for general backwood protection is relatively recent, and there is a good market for that.
Let me offer another reason why the 10mm did not die. In 1873 Winchester came out with the 44-40. In lever action rifle form it was known as "the gun that won the west". Yet all it could manage was to launch a 200 gr lead bullet at about 1,200 fps out of a 20" rifle barrel (you should already know where I am going with this :D ). It was never too much. Never bowled anything over and it's ballistics are humble. But it has the remarkable trait of nearly always being enough to get the job done. Small enough to carry a lot of ammo. Light enough so recoil was easy. Big/heavy enough to make the tough shots. If there were gun writers in that day I am sure they put it down. The 44-40 (in the lever form) had enough positives and few enough negatives that was simply without equal in it's day. A friend of mine still uses one for deer & hog. Hundreds of deer and hog later he will not trade that rifle for anything.
If you have a 5" barrel in your 10mm handgun you effectively have the cartridge that won the west only with rifle ballistics. I constantly read about how the 10mm in a handgun is usually enough to get the job done in the wild. Often not the best choice but, like the 44-40, gets the job done. IMO that fact (along with some fantastic handguns) has turned a lot of heads and breathed life into the 10mm when it was dying. IMO, the 10mm cartridge properly loaded in a good handgun simply has no equal in 2018. Pretty cool!
Quote from: Spudmeister on February 25 2018 12:58:04 PM MST
Let me offer another reason why the 10mm did not die. In 1873 Winchester came out with the 44-40. In lever action rifle form it was known as "the gun that won the west". Yet all it could manage was to launch a 200 gr lead bullet at about 1,200 fps out of a 20" rifle barrel (you should already know where I am going with this :D ). It was never too much. Never bowled anything over and it's ballistics are humble. But it has the remarkable trait of nearly always being enough to get the job done. Small enough to carry a lot of ammo. Light enough so recoil was easy. Big/heavy enough to make the tough shots. If there were gun writers in that day I am sure they put it down. The 44-40 (in the lever form) had enough positives and few enough negatives that was simply without equal in it's day. A friend of mine still uses one for deer & hog. Hundreds of deer and hog later he will not trade that rifle for anything.
If you have a 5" barrel in your 10mm handgun you effectively have the cartridge that won the west only with rifle ballistics. I constantly read about how the 10mm in a handgun is usually enough to get the job done in the wild. Often not the best choice but, like the 44-40, gets the job done. IMO that fact (along with some fantastic handguns) has turned a lot of heads and breathed life into the 10mm when it was dying. IMO, the 10mm cartridge properly loaded in a good handgun simply has no equal in 2018. Pretty cool!
Great post....the ten mm gets the job done. I like it..
Quote from: 4949shooter on February 25 2018 08:22:57 AM MST
I just saw your response over on GID Curtis. For me it will be the other way around...G20 first and then a Delta Elite.
I should have purchased the Delta years ago.
4949shooter, I haven't bought a Delta Elite yet either, I was misleading in the statement I made. The original blued/black Delta Elite with the red Delta in the grip is what caught my eye, plus it was a 10mm! I still want to get a Delta Elite. The G20 Gen 4 was the first 10mm in my safe.
Quote from: CurtisM on February 25 2018 06:39:10 PM MST
Quote from: 4949shooter on February 25 2018 08:22:57 AM MST
I just saw your response over on GID Curtis. For me it will be the other way around...G20 first and then a Delta Elite.
I should have purchased the Delta years ago.
4949shooter, I haven't bought a Delta Elite yet either, I was misleading in the statement I made. The original blued/black Delta Elite with the red Delta in the grip is what caught my eye, plus it was a 10mm! I still want to get a Delta Elite. The G20 Gen 4 was the first 10mm in my safe.
Sounds good Curtis. Maybe we'll both get a Delta sometime soon.
Notification of this new topic was the last email I got before I got on a plane in Delhi to fly back to the US. I was really bummed that I was gonna miss this dialog in realtime, and reading through the posts, there has been a lot of good dialog.
I also had 24 hours on a plane to just think and I thunk a good bit about this.
There are a lot of different events on the course, but I think it started with the 94 AWB. At that point, the 10mm was not looking super viable long-term. The FBI was moving away from it and the 40 S&W was the super darling new LE round to end all LE rounds.
The first thing the 94 AWB did was created a resurgence in viability of lower capacity, high power handguns. If I was limited to ten rounds, why not make it ten rounds of 45 ACP or 10mm over ten rounds of 9mm or 40 S&W. This helped the 1911 platform, and it helped "magnum" and "big-bore" calibers.
The 94 AWB was not renewed after sunset in 2004 and immediately created a renewed interest in the AR-15. The AR-15 is, of course, the lego set of gun building. And in no time that started to extend the platform to calibers beyond 5.56/223. And a whole new generation became enamored with wildcatting cartridges, myself included.
Of course, the journey to wildcat cartridges is to first find out what has been done. This learning process leads people to "find" all the cool cartridges that aren't uber mainstream. And in learning and trying some of those cartridges they find some real gems. Great cartridges that for whatever reason didn't quite catch the eye of huge government production.
The 10mm isn't the only cartridge that is enjoying this renaissance. The 38 Super+ is another that comes immediately to mind. And the 45 Super and a bunch of others are also riding this wave.
The 10mm has always been a "good" idea. The same basic idea of a 200 grain, 40 caliber bullet at 1100-1200 fps has been around for over 100 years. The first was the 38-40 WCF. The 41 Magnum is a similar, though more powerful implementation of this concept.
But the 10mm Auto is the BEST incarnation of this idea. And more and more gun enthusiasts are finding it.
I suspect a couple of things that all together played a part into its resurgence.
The explosive growth of the pig hunting market.
A whole generation of shooters that are more familiar with pistols as opposed to revolvers and their acceptance of electronic sights.
Hunting celebrities and professional youtubers using the 10mm on video that is freely and widely available. (Decline of cable television)
The price and reliability of current generation mini red dots.
The proliferation of cheap wearable cameras providing a lot of video evidence of the round's effectiveness on game and test media.
The popularity of social media and the ease of which it is to share said videos.
The introduction of the Glock G40 and some glock enthusiasts' fondness for caliber conversions.
The years of articles/discussion/data available about the .40 cal projectile performance.
Over saturation of "tactical" in the gun market.
That's just my guess.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm not sure about why everyone else has transitioned to the 10mm but I did because Ted Nugent and Razor Dobbs have been promoting it on their hunting shows and after I checked its ballistics, I came to the realization it could play a limited role for me in hunting and woods defense here in Alaska.
Quote from: Canoe on February 25 2018 10:06:39 AM MST
Quote from: Sonny10MM on February 25 2018 09:18:08 AM MST
I'm not sure why either as there's really nothing no one didn't know before now. Ammo is still expensive compared to 9MM and not as easy to find as .45ACP, but there has been more offerings such as the Sig and Grand Power. I'm glad though and I'm on the list for a reproduction of the Bren Ten from Chuck Warner too.
OK where are the details on this reproduction?!
The one thing that has changed since introduction is the intended use. If I recall, originally it was touted only as a more powerful personal defence round. The recognition that it was suitable for hunting small and medium game and for general backwood protection is relatively recent, and there is a good market for that.
Try here, but best to call Chuck. https://www.facebook.com/groups/50872516366/
Quote from: sqlbullet on February 26 2018 10:52:39 AM MST
Notification of this new topic was the last email I got before I got on a plane in Delhi to fly back to the US. I was really bummed that I was gonna miss this dialog in realtime, and reading through the posts, there has been a lot of good dialog.
I also had 24 hours on a plane to just think and I thunk a good bit about this.
There are a lot of different events on the course, but I think it started with the 94 AWB. At that point, the 10mm was not looking super viable long-term. The FBI was moving away from it and the 40 S&W was the super darling new LE round to end all LE rounds.
The first thing the 94 AWB did was created a resurgence in viability of lower capacity, high power handguns. If I was limited to ten rounds, why not make it ten rounds of 45 ACP or 10mm over ten rounds of 9mm or 40 S&W. This helped the 1911 platform, and it helped "magnum" and "big-bore" calibers.
The 94 AWB was not renewed after sunset in 2004 and immediately created a renewed interest in the AR-15. The AR-15 is, of course, the lego set of gun building. And in no time that started to extend the platform to calibers beyond 5.56/223. And a whole new generation became enamored with wildcatting cartridges, myself included.
Of course, the journey to wildcat cartridges is to first find out what has been done. This learning process leads people to "find" all the cool cartridges that aren't uber mainstream. And in learning and trying some of those cartridges they find some real gems. Great cartridges that for whatever reason didn't quite catch the eye of huge government production.
The 10mm isn't the only cartridge that is enjoying this renaissance. The 38 Super+ is another that comes immediately to mind. And the 45 Super and a bunch of others are also riding this wave.
The 10mm has always been a "good" idea. The same basic idea of a 200 grain, 40 caliber bullet at 1100-1200 fps has been around for over 100 years. The first was the 38-40 WCF. The 41 Magnum is a similar, though more powerful implementation of this concept.
But the 10mm Auto is the BEST incarnation of this idea. And more and more gun enthusiasts are finding it.
All great posts! This one in bold may sum it up nicely.
10mm is the best choice in caliber for a powerful semi auto handgun. It's for when you need or want more than a 9mm/40/45 and a large magnum semi auto or revolver is not practical. It offers decent ballistics and high capacity. It just makes a lot of sense.
Quote from: sep on February 26 2018 10:32:40 PM MST
I'm not sure about why everyone else has transitioned to the 10mm but I did because Ted Nugent and Razor Dobbs have been promoting it on their hunting shows and after I checked its ballistics, I came to the realization it could play a limited role for me in hunting and woods defense here in Alaska.
Come to think of it, I did watch Uncle Ted with his 10mm STI well before I got my SR1911.
Quote from: 4949shooter on February 24 2018 03:42:33 PM MST
Posted this on the Glock ID forum, but apparently there were less 10mm fans than I thought. So I am reposting it here:
So why do we think the 10mm made such a great comeback from near extinction?
Is the 10mm popular as a "niche" round for hunters and hikers?
Why the 10mm and not the .50 AE?
Has the cost of 10mm come down to make it more popular?
Did the introduction of more boutique ammo companies like Buffalo Bore and Underwood bring the 10mm back?
I don't know about others, but, I've wanted a 10mm since I first saw the ad that Dornaus & Dixon placed in Shotgun News back in the 80's. I was going to place an order, until I read about the screw-ups with the company failing to send any magazines with the few guns that did ship. Next thing I know the company went out of business. The same thing happened with the other Bren Ten iterations that I read about and wanted to buy -Peregrine Falcon and then the VLTOR Fortis aka Bren Ten.
I don't know about a comeback, I have always wanted and still do want a Bren Ten. I've settled for my three 1911 pistols in 10mm. As for hunters, I don't hunt, and I don't know anyone that does, so 10mm for hunting is out for me and not relevant.
To answer your question about why 10mm and not .50 AE, I have a Desert Eagle .50 AE. Previously, I had a .44 magnum Desert Eagle that was a dream to shoot. I bought the .50 AE Desert Eagle, thinking it would be as well. It's not. It's like shooting a .44 magnum out of a 2" barrel revolver. I shot 7 rounds and put it down for the rest of the range trip. My 1911 pistols using Underwood Ammo rounds at 1,500 fps are like shooting a .357 magnum revolver. Manageable recoil and comfortable to shoot many magazines in one range trip.
As for your question about cost, that's a not a criteria I use for any of my defensive pistols or rifles. I factor effectiveness over cost. If I cared about cost I'd be carrying a .22 short or lr, instead of 10mm. I figure that 10mm is more effective for defensive uses than any .22 short or lr. Or any 9mm, .40, and .45 ACP.
I will be adding two more 10mm pistols to my safe. Looking at a Delta Elite, and maybe a Ruger SR1911.
It would be nice to pick up one of those Bren Tens manufactured from existing Bren Ten slide / frames, but they are too much money for a cop's salary.
Spend some of that moldy money ;D
Quote from: The_Shadow on February 25 2018 09:09:49 AM MST
Back when the D&D Bren Ten was coming about I was very enthusiastic about the gun and the cartridge and its ballistics.
I remember reading about the Bren 10 in one of the first gun mag articles about them. I was kind of sceptical, like what good is this over like a .41 magnum.
Well, 4 pistols and two 10mm carbines later, I STILL love this round. Easy to load, lots of projectile options, can use a whole slew of powders to reload them. While not quite the same power as a .41 magnum, it fits well in several semi-automatic pistols.
Pretty sure that most interesting man in the world fellow doesn't shoot often, but when he does, he shoots 10mm Auto.
Quote from: SPDSR on March 07 2018 06:49:23 PM MST
Pretty sure that most interesting man in the world fellow doesn't shoot often, but when he does, he shoots 10mm Auto.
Indeed! 8)
Quote from: 4949shooter on March 07 2018 08:03:52 PM MST
Quote from: SPDSR on March 07 2018 06:49:23 PM MST
Pretty sure that most interesting man in the world fellow doesn't shoot often, but when he does, he shoots 10mm Auto.
Indeed
Stay high capacity my friends... :D
Ted Nugent and Razor Dobbs is why i also started in 10mm
Quote from: sep on March 10 2018 10:19:54 AM MST
Quote from: 4949shooter on March 07 2018 08:03:52 PM MST
Quote from: SPDSR on March 07 2018 06:49:23 PM MST
Pretty sure that most interesting man in the world fellow doesn't shoot often, but when he does, he shoots 10mm Auto.
Indeed
Stay high capacity my friends... :D
;D
I'll also go out on the hook here...I am partly responsible for 10mm's comeback as I was promoting it as I sported that S&W1006 in 1990 as I displayed its accuracy and power to family and friends. Then across a few gun forums, much like this one, I worked to promote the cartridge and the guns chambered for this ballistic rough and ready workhorse.
Then here in this forum, amongst friends, Intercooler contacted me about ammo pull-down documentations. As a handloader, I was excited as this turned into a labor of love to see what was inside the stuff being sold to the buying public. Many have gone inside the various Pull-Down sections here on the forum, to learn what was documented as it preserves ammo history. It was an extreme learning experience for me as I has to fully research powders, even plenty I had never used. I studied one powder for almost a year, thinking it was Winchester Auto Comp...well after finally getting another handloader to give me a small sample it proved to be what I thought it was exactly!
In other efforts I continuously pester gun makers for new 10mm chambered offerings, their Facebook and web addresses get pounded often for new things! Just doing my part! ;D
Shadow, not to blow any smoke, but a large part of the reason I got into ten mm is due to the postings on the Ten Ring in Glocktalk. This was hosted primariiy by yourself, as well as a few others there. Others deserving mention in the return of the 10mm are Patriot, Intercooler, David Sneed, and Squlbullet.
What originally piqued my interest in 10mm back in the 90's was a chapter written in the book, COMBAT HANDGUNNERY, 3rd edition by the late Chuck Karwan. Chapter 11, "Touting The TEN," was written by Chuck and is dedicated solely to the 10mm. Underneath the title for the chapter is written, "The author feels the 10mm Auto may be the Ultimate Combat Handgun!" Just like that, with an exclamation point.
This entire book is an excellent read, especially this chapter and the next chapter, "Handguns and Dangerous Animals," in which the author picks his first choice as the best backup weapon against dangerous game animal as the Glock 20, loaded with a full metal jacket hot load like the old "Pro-Load" 180 grain. The author's second choice for a backup against dangerous game animals is the S&W M629 .44 magnum.
The reason being he picked the 10mm Glock is due to capacity and controllability. Also stated is if you were to run into human predators or terrorists in certain parts, the Glock 20 was said to be "one of the finest fighting handguns in the world." Hard to argue the logic, even if the the book 3rd edition was copyrighted in 1992.
The author was a teenage graduate of the Civilian Marksmanship Small Arms Firing School at Camp Perry Ohio, a West Point Military Academy graduate, and a Vietnam Veteran. In Vietnam he served as a rifle platoon commander, company XO, and company commander. He was awarded the Bronze Star for combat jungle operations. He has also been the author of numerous books and articles, which are too numerous to mention. The 10mm was his favorite handgun cartridge.
4949shooter, I wasn't trying to leave any of the other guys out...Patriot (especially with his providing this forum for the continuation after the 10mmTalk dwindled), Intercooler & David Sneed both who shared their range test reports and videos, we have to mention Andrew "Choppin Block" with the Jello testing and Squlbullet with his detailed explanation post. There were some others who also participated in the documentations that help the preservations.
I will say that the 10mm guys were the better behaved people on all of the forums over the years as they stayed the course...
I was very active on the Handloads.com forum but have slowed down on there some, 10mmTalk which was absorbed in the AR15Armory.com and yes had many discussions over the years at GlockTalk.com. Yes it is where most of us had forged a communication introduction with each other in the early years! This bond that was forged continues on here... :D
Another place that has grown is social media Facebook which has several 10mm groups...these have blossomed with interest and show and tell that shows the 10mm is still a growing fan base of enthuasist! 8)
Quote from: The_Shadow on March 11 2018 12:27:00 PM MDT
4949shooter, I wasn't trying to leave any of the other guys out...Patriot (especially with his providing this forum for the continuation after the 10mmTalk dwindled), Intercooler & David Sneed both who shared their range test reports and videos, we have to mention Andrew "Choppin Block" with the Jello testing and Squlbullet with his detailed explanation post. There were some others who also participated in the documentations that help the preservations.
I know you weren't trying to leave anyone out Shadow. I just thought I may have been remiss in not mentioning you and some of the others since it was my thread.
The ammo MFG's that gave us an ear too. I know early on I spoke with SwampFox and then worked with Kevin Underwood getting him set up on Facebook, testing loads, etc... Most everyone was pretty receptive and made changes along the way.
We also had another excellent person out in Washington State that was a member here. I can't recall the name, but he made tons of videos until he blew up a couple of Glocks. I picked up a decent amount of unavailable ammo from him!
Mr.Redbull was his name here I think.
10mm made a comeback because it's the only handgun cartridge that is nuclear. :o :)) :D >:(
Was that MrRedbull616?
I've been shooting 10mm since 1990 I didn't know it needed to make a comeback.
I must be a relative newcomer then. I didn't get one till like 1995.
One word, GLOCK!
Quote from: 9mmskng on April 20 2018 06:45:59 PM MDT
One word, GLOCK!
You have a point. But it started a bit before that. I would says it's a nice steady snowball. I mean I have at least 5 people with 10mm's now once I show them it doesn't tear your arms off leaving bloody stumps and such all the O2 out of your lungs with the thermobaric blast.
I know one thing for sure, the 10mm can not only be incredibly accurate for its intended use, be it hunting, range time, or self defense, it's just a really fun caliber to shoot
I just wish that 10mm brass didn't fly so far! or I wish it was as popular as .45 or 9mm and there was lots of brass to be picked up. ;) having to buy brass for reloading really increases my ammo costs.
Lol, sure does
Quote from: 9mmskng on April 20 2018 06:45:59 PM MDT
One word, GLOCK!
Can you elaborate on what Glock did to facilitate the resurgence?
I see Glock's continued supply of models chambered for 10mm as a positive for the continuation the 10mm cartridge/ammunition as an enthusiasts intro, for reasonably prices 10mm guns. Glock's model 20 Sec Gen had been in production fairly early on and the updated models and generations that followed all played a roll in sustaining our favorite cartridge. Glock 20, 29, 40 fill a good niche of the market with their platforms.
Quote from: sqlbullet on May 09 2018 12:35:11 PM MDT
Quote from: 9mmskng on April 20 2018 06:45:59 PM MDT
One word, GLOCK!
Can you elaborate on what Glock did to facilitate the resurgence?
I'm not sure if Glock helped with the resurgence, but they sure helped keep it alive.
Well I take it the other way, if Glock was the only 10mm out there I would have over look it ::) But Thanks to Colt and Kimber and all the other fine 1911s being made for the 10mm, thats what got me into it :)
I think Colt saved the 10mm from drowning with the Delta Elite.
But I also think Glock kept the 10mm out of the water with the G20.
I think that after the 40 S&W emerged the victor of the 40 caliber wars of the late 80's, the 10mm had a bit of an image as a bully. "We gave you a chance to play nice, but you hurt the star athlete so you cannot play with the rest of the cool kids. People looked at it as a niche cartridge perhaps, and with little or no social media outside of magazines, that reputation could not be easily rebuked. This was compounded by the fact that the only 10mm offerings each had their own issues to deal with. The Bren 10 was hard to find and expensive, the Glock 20 was fighting the "You are a little thick in the waist, aren't you, Bro?" While the Colt was yet another 1911 in a world of cool new double stack autos.
Fast forward 20 years to the great ammo shortage of 2009. No 9mm, 45 ACP or .22. The 40 caliber pistols were in the limelight as many LEA's had adopted the 40 Smith and ammo was available. Couple that with men growing beards to separate themselves from the gender-disabled and a demand for "different and new" in a world where "standard and everyday" was just not available; the 10mm was an obvious choice. Round 2 for the old class bully showed through social media that it could be tamed or terrifying or anywhere in between. I think this is where we are today. Ruger is definitely on their game as well as Kimber while Glock is putting pretty on plain jane girls anyone can date and Smith and Springfield stand on the sidelines watching with their jaws agape thinking "She sure has a pretty mouth". That's my take on it.
Ahhh, but the ammo shortage never bothered me since I reload. While powders were hard to come by in the Obozo years, I had a large stash the first time he got his butt elected. Before his second election I loaded up on powder and primers again figuring he would do it again, and he did. .40 cal bullets have never been really hard to find, and I was using Precision Bullets coated ones. If they were running low, they pretty much ran off another batch. The longest I had to wait for them to fill an order was 1 month, so I ordered well in advance. Now I almost have too much Blue Dot powder, and Large Pistol Primers, if there is such a thing as too much.
Absolutely, and the 10mm is a great round to start with or add to your reloading. But what about John Q, Weekend Range shooter that swings by Wally World for a few boxes of ammo?
Quote from: gandog56 on May 14 2018 03:41:56 PM MDT
.40 cal bullets have never been really hard to find
You obviously weren't shooting 10mm in the 80's.
Tony
can remember buying my fisrt one,delta elite. ammo was pricey,hard to find,started to reload,was no reload info at that time,so figure my loads.then 10 mm went gone.now fast foward,every manufacturer is getting on 10mm bandwagon.i like it.they are here to stay
Quote from: TonyRumore on May 15 2018 05:19:03 AM MDT
Quote from: gandog56 on May 14 2018 03:41:56 PM MDT
.40 cal bullets have never been really hard to find
You obviously weren't shooting 10mm in the 80's.
Tony
Well, I'm too young? I didn't get into 10mm until the 90's some time. I am not even really sure why I did. But I owned a Ruger KP944DC before I owned any 10mm. I traded in that pistil for a SIG P229 with both the .40 cal and 357 sig barrels. At some point I guess I wanted more power than the .40 cal provided, and I bought my first 10mm, a Dan Wesson Razorback. I loved that gun so much I later got a custom built Fusion Firearms long slide Hunter. Later I added an RIA, a Tanfoglio full steel Witness, A Mechtech CCU to make my Dan Wesson a 10mm carbine, a TWN Aero Survival rifle in 1omm, and now the Ruger Super Redhawk in 10mm. I do love the caliber, and I reloaded for it from day one. So yeah, I never had a problem getting .40 cal components...UNTIL the first time Obozo got himself elected. Then it was more powder and primer shortages rather than not finding .40 cal projectiles. Even during the shortages I was using Precision Bullets 10mm projectiles. If he had none in stock, he would run off a new batch. The longest I ever had to wait for new bullets was about one month, and I always reordered WAY before I actually ran out.
Quote from: blaster on April 21 2018 04:28:20 PM MDT
I just wish that 10mm brass didn't fly so far! or I wish it was as popular as .45 or 9mm and there was lots of brass to be picked up. ;) having to buy brass for reloading really increases my ammo costs.
http://10mm-firearms.com/general-discussion/40-sw-deep-throat/
Quote from: The_Shadow on May 09 2018 05:30:15 PM MDT
I see Glock's continued supply of models chambered for 10mm as a positive for the continuation the 10mm cartridge/ammunition as an enthusiasts intro, for reasonably prices 10mm guns. Glock's model 20 Sec Gen had been in production fairly early on and the updated models and generations that followed all played a roll in sustaining our favorite cartridge. Glock 20, 29, 40 fill a good niche of the market with their platforms.
I would not own a 10mm if it wasn't for Glock. I have no desire to own any other 10mm guns except maybe an AR Carbine or a revolver, but I don't want to pay a lot for either, so I will not be getting one anytime soon.
.
That G20 lead me down the 10mm garden lane with light weight and capacity.
I'm glad the 10 is here
Quote from: my_old_glock on May 25 2018 01:01:52 PM MDT
Quote from: blaster on April 21 2018 04:28:20 PM MDT
I just wish that 10mm brass didn't fly so far! or I wish it was as popular as .45 or 9mm and there was lots of brass to be picked up. ;) having to buy brass for reloading really increases my ammo costs.
http://10mm-firearms.com/general-discussion/40-sw-deep-throat/
Quote from: The_Shadow on May 09 2018 05:30:15 PM MDT
I see Glock's continued supply of models chambered for 10mm as a positive for the continuation the 10mm cartridge/ammunition as an enthusiasts intro, for reasonably prices 10mm guns. Glock's model 20 Sec Gen had been in production fairly early on and the updated models and generations that followed all played a roll in sustaining our favorite cartridge. Glock 20, 29, 40 fill a good niche of the market with their platforms.
I would not own a 10mm if it wasn't for Glock. I have no desire to own any other 10mm guns except maybe an AR Carbine or a revolver, but I don't want to pay a lot for either, so I will not be getting one anytime soon.
very interesting, thanks.
.
Not to mention, it's just a gassy rd to shoot, my wife and daughters even think it's an incredible rd : )
I think it has made a comeback for a few reasons , Ammo companies like Underwood... produceing top of the line true 10mm ammo ..
The 10mm is a true crossover pistol cartridge... Self defense and hunting/ woods carry..
Glock .. They never waivered in the production of 10mm pistols .. Also the Glock 30 & 21 that can be easily converted to 10mm ( my 21c is a partime 20)
Now Hipoint has produced a carbine at a very affordable price.. Which with the right ammo will futher put the 10mm in the woods and home defense rolls .. I really like my 10mm HP carbine...
Now if ammo manufacturers will produce true 10mm ammo !!!
Colt and Glock helped keep it alive and it seems like now it is back big time. When I saw the Ruger SR1911-10 then the Ruger DA revolver in 10mm and then the Ruger Blackhawk SA revolver in 10mm/40S&W I finally realized it is really going main stream. I am happy.
I was always told the 10mm had a vicious recoil and most folks couldn't shoot it. After chatting with a guy at the local gunshop, he convinced me to take a look at one. He has the Colt Elite and claims recoil is no issue. Depends on what you call bad recoil and that's governed by the ammo. After looking at it for a while, it looks like you can pretty much name your game with a 10MM. You can shoot light bullets, like a 120 or 135gr, and load them down or you can push them into 357 mag territory. I found that attractive. You can load the the typical 180gr and load it down to comfy yet deadly ammo. Or you can push it into and past 45ACP territory. You can almost get to 41 mag specs with one, all in one platform. If you need a gun with a lot of versatility, the 10mm is the pick of the litter. I think it just got a bad rap with the tender hands people with the Gov't that couldn't handle any kind of recoil at all. Some of those folks really need to not pack a gun at all. But I'm glad it survived. While I was looking for a long slide 1911 platform when I bought my first one, now I'm looking at a regular 1911 platform and it'll be a 10mm. With light bullets, you can push them into the 1500'+ps range. That's a lot more gun than a puny 9mm by a lot. From my experience plinking with the Rainier 135gr HPs, there's little recoil for those that may be sensitive to recoil. That I can push a 135 Nosler into 357 mag territory makes it a better choice than the Pythons for a carry gun. I doubt the receiving end will know the difference between a 135gr and a 140 which is what I shoot from a 357. I think the resurgence is due to the versatility of the cartridge and because many have found out, it's not bad on the hand like I always thought.
Plus they a are just gas to shoot; nice write up by the way
Went to the range this morning to get some shooting time before the usual afternoon thunderboomer rolls through. (They have almost every afternoon this week!). I took along every 10mm I own. I ended up shooting my:
Dan Wesson Razorback 1911
RIA Tac II 1911
Fusion Firearms Hunter long slide 1911
Tanfoglio Witness full size steel
Mechtech CCU carbine
TNW Aero Survival rifle 10mm carbine
Ruger Super Redhawk 10mm
The worst recoil was probably from the Ruger, but I loaded up some pretty stiff reloads for it.
Quote from: gandog56 on June 13 2018 12:50:44 PM MDT
Went to the range this morning to get some shooting time before the usual afternoon thunderboomer rolls through. (They have almost every afternoon this week!). I took along every 10mm I own. I ended up shooting my:
Dan Wesson Razorback 1911
RIA Tac II 1911
Fusion Firearms Hunter long slide 1911
Tanfoglio Witness full size steel
Mechtech CCU carbine
TNW Aero Survival rifle 10mm carbine
Ruger Super Redhawk 10mm
The worst recoil was probably from the Ruger, but I loaded up some pretty stiff reloads for it.
Sounds like a good day. That Fusion long slide must be a beaut!
So how do you like that Dan Wesson Razorback? been kind of looking at another 1911 10mm and thought that the DW Razorback might be my cup of tea ;D
Couldn't guess the number of Gandog56 posts extolling the virtues of his DW RZ-10 and backing it up with pretty impressive accuracy illustrations as proof. So unless the universe has flipped, it's a pretty damn safe bet he's still quite fond of it!
Which of course he has every right to be, the RZ-10 it's a pretty sweet heater.
Back to the original question, why did 10mm make a comeback? Because it is the cartridge that all semi-auto cartridges want to be, but can't be. It has it all, velocity, energy, easy to reload, versatility of bullets.
It just took awhile to get over the bad wrap that the FBI gave it over recoil. I have never found it objectionable. Like I said in the beginning they all aspire to achieve 10mm ballistics but without recoil, laws of physics won't allow.
Quote from: 10mm4ever on June 16 2018 07:28:47 AM MDT
.......recoil. I have never found it objectionable.......
Ditto here. Even when I get a little nuts and put over book loads in my G 20L, it's a little snappy. But really much ado about nothing. I'm not a large man, and I have medium small hands.
10mm is a thinking mans caliber, for example...
A few weeks ago after I showed my friend the G20, the next week he told his son to get a 10mm, primarily because of the barrel and caliber interchangeability. (And the price for Glock being relatively low)
His son bought a 40S&W "because he'll get free ammo from dad."
I told my buddy his boy wasn't a really bright bulb and he agreed and I think if he himself hadn't just bought his 40 S&W it would have been a G20 instead.
My friend is a quick study and saw the G20/ 10mm's potential.
Makes me think a lot of people buy 40's because they don't do the research into other calibers, they're prolific weapons, and counter sales probably push popular rather than effective.
Quote from: NuthinButMagnums on June 16 2018 02:11:53 PM MDT
10mm is a thinking mans caliber, for example...
A few weeks ago after I showed my friend the G20, the next week he told his son to get a 10mm, primarily because of the barrel and caliber interchangeability. (And the price for Glock being relatively low)
His son bought a 40S&W "because he'll get free ammo from dad."
I told my buddy his boy wasn't a really bright bulb and he agreed and I think if he himself hadn't just bought his 40 S&W it would have been a G20 instead.
My friend is a quick study and saw the G20/ 10mm's potential.
Makes me think a lot of people buy 40's because they don't do the research into other calibers, they're prolific weapons, and counter sales probably push popular rather than effective.
Not to mention, the G20 is a pusssycat with .40 cal and .357 conversion barrels. Really tames the recoil and you could shoot these cartridges for ever.
Quote from: 10mm4ever on June 16 2018 07:28:47 AM MDT
Back to the original question, why did 10mm make a comeback? Because it is the cartridge that all semi-auto cartridges want to be, but can't be. It has it all, velocity, energy, easy to reload, versatility of bullets.
It just took awhile to get over the bad wrap that the FBI gave it over recoil. I have never found it objectionable. Like I said in the beginning they all aspire to achieve 10mm ballistics but without recoil, laws of physics won't allow.
Performance of boutique ammo probably helped the mystique, but I have to believe the fact it's a handloader's dream really helped; the 10mm (not exclusively) can be loaded with almost every pistol and shotgun powder out there, from mild to wild, 100 different bullets, it all just works :)
Quote from: 4949shooter on June 13 2018 01:24:40 PM MDT
Quote from: gandog56 on June 13 2018 12:50:44 PM MDT
Went to the range this morning to get some shooting time before the usual afternoon thunderboomer rolls through. (They have almost every afternoon this week!). I took along every 10mm I own. I ended up shooting my:
Dan Wesson Razorback 1911
RIA Tac II 1911
Fusion Firearms Hunter long slide 1911
Tanfoglio Witness full size steel
Mechtech CCU carbine
TNW Aero Survival rifle 10mm carbine
Ruger Super Redhawk 10mm
The worst recoil was probably from the Ruger, but I loaded up some pretty stiff reloads for it.
Sounds like a good day. That Fusion long slide must be a beaut!
https://i.imgur.com/VXU7hpd.jpg
Quote from: gandog56 on June 19 2018 02:17:17 PM MDT
Quote from: 4949shooter on June 13 2018 01:24:40 PM MDT
Quote from: gandog56 on June 13 2018 12:50:44 PM MDT
Went to the range this morning to get some shooting time before the usual afternoon thunderboomer rolls through. (They have almost every afternoon this week!). I took along every 10mm I own. I ended up shooting my:
Dan Wesson Razorback 1911
RIA Tac II 1911
Fusion Firearms Hunter long slide 1911
Tanfoglio Witness full size steel
Mechtech CCU carbine
TNW Aero Survival rifle 10mm carbine
Ruger Super Redhawk 10mm
The worst recoil was probably from the Ruger, but I loaded up some pretty stiff reloads for it.
Sounds like a good day. That Fusion long slide must be a beaut!
https://i.imgur.com/VXU7hpd.jpg
Beautiful! 8)
Quote from: 14 GT-500 on May 13 2018 08:50:04 AM MDT
...Kimber and all the other fine 1911s being made for the 10mm, thats what got me into it :)
My answer to the OP's question would be this: Kimber.
Colt convinced the FBI, and Glock kept it alive, but it sure seems to me that when Kimber released their Stainless Target Model in 10mm, THIS is what started the long, slow revival of the 10mm. IIRC, Kimber followed it up with the Eclipse model, and it was shortly after this that Dan Wesson & others began chambering pistols in our beloved caliber, which eventually led to today, with more 10mm handguns available than ever before.
Sam
Six months ago I didn't know anything about 40cal or 10mm or Glocks. I wasn't in the market and at my age I try to not clutter my brain with info I probably won't use.
I got here in a round-about way. Read of the police-trade-ins and liked that I could get an M22 for around $300. Did some research and learned of the cartridges and started saving up some of my SS money to get that Glock.
A month ago I got the email that the local Sportsman's Warehouse had the RIA 1911 for $500. Did a little more research on 10mm and RIA and jumped on one.
Absolutely love the pistol and love the cartridge! The biggest I'd owned in the past was a .357 Ruger Security Six in the '70s and this new one impressed me from the first shot. Crazy powerful, felt the concussion in my chest but controllable because of the weight of the 1911. Amazingly accurate too. And it can be reloaded fairly cheaply.
I've noticed that the 10mm has a rabid following; those that like it absolutely love it and now I'm one of them (just as we are with the 6.5 Grendel).
I can understand how and why the 10mm is gaining in popularity.
Edit: I think a big part of the resurgence is the less-expensive guns (like the $500 RIA). The 10mm handguns were out of the reach of many until just recently.
And edit again: Sorry, I have excluded the Glocks. They've been priced reasonably but I've always been more interested in the 1911.
Quote from: SHOOT1SAM on June 25 2018 08:38:13 PM MDT
Quote from: 14 GT-500 on May 13 2018 08:50:04 AM MDT
...Kimber and all the other fine 1911s being made for the 10mm, thats what got me into it :)
My answer to the OP's question would be this: Kimber.
Colt convinced the FBI, and Glock kept it alive, but it sure seems to me that when Kimber released their Stainless Target Model in 10mm, THIS is what started the long, slow revival of the 10mm. IIRC, Kimber followed it up with the Eclipse model, and it was shortly after this that Dan Wesson & others began chambering pistols in our beloved caliber, which eventually led to today, with more 10mm handguns available than ever before.
Sam
As much as I hate to say it, not being a Glock lover, is Glock did way more than just "keep it alive'. As far as I know, for a while they were the ONLY ones who still even made one.If it wasn't for them, you probably could hardly even find any commercial manufacturers of 10mm ammo.
Still, I just hate how a Glock even feels in my hand. But that;'s just a personal opinion. They feel good in yours, they are a good option, and almost the cheapest way to get a new 10mm. Kimbers are just too much for many average Joes.
Quote from: gandog56 on June 26 2018 02:13:33 PM MDT
Quote from: SHOOT1SAM on June 25 2018 08:38:13 PM MDT
Quote from: 14 GT-500 on May 13 2018 08:50:04 AM MDT
...Kimber and all the other fine 1911s being made for the 10mm, thats what got me into it :)
My answer to the OP's question would be this: Kimber.
Colt convinced the FBI, and Glock kept it alive, but it sure seems to me that when Kimber released their Stainless Target Model in 10mm, THIS is what started the long, slow revival of the 10mm. IIRC, Kimber followed it up with the Eclipse model, and it was shortly after this that Dan Wesson & others began chambering pistols in our beloved caliber, which eventually led to today, with more 10mm handguns available than ever before.
Sam
As much as I hate to say it, not being a Glock lover, is Glock did way more than just "keep it alive'. As far as I know, for a while they were the ONLY ones who still even made one.If it wasn't for them, you probably could hardly even find any commercial manufacturers of 10mm ammo.
Still, I just hate how a Glock even feels in my hand. But that;'s just a personal opinion. They feel good in yours, they are a good option, and almost the cheapest way to get a new 10mm. Kimbers are just too much for many average Joes.
Appreciate your honesty gandog. I fully agree that Glocks aren't for everyone, and I can appreciate the fact that you can acknowledge their contribution to the 10mm world.
Not a fan of the funny looking plastic guns with the goofy looking triggers either,(not that I don't believe that they are some of the most reliable handguns ever made) but don't give them TOO much credit for keeping the 1cm alive. Once the round was put into service by law enforcement there were enough guns around to keep it on life support. Changing ammo technology making more effective and more powerful ammunition has come down to the real reason it's making a comeback. Purely a matter of horsepower. Aside from more obscure calibers like 40 super and 9x25 Dillon it's the biggest baddest round useful in a "normal" semi-auto. In these times of pony cars approaching 1000 HP it's pretty apparent that there are a lot of folks that don't necessarily look for the minimum to get the job done. Long live 10mm! ;D
Been following this thread and all the interesting perspectives on this topic.
While I think there are a multitude of contributing factors but I'd have to cast my lot with Gandog56, 4949shooter and others who've pointed to the Glock 20. As so many have noted, it's anything but a beauty to behold. However, it was for a significant period of time in my view the primary mainstream producer of reliable 10mm pistols. While some may look down their nose at the G20, it was a very reasonably priced vehicle to introduce people to the caliber. There was a lot of talk for 10 or 15 years that 10mm was dead man walking. Very different equation for new people interested in the 10mm to invest $500 bucks into a caliber that looked like it might dry up and blow away vs. $1,300 to $2,500 for a high end 1911. The G20's comparably modest entry cost gave those like me, who clearly remembered the fanfare and adulation of the 10mm's birth, ascendency then near extinction but while always remained interested, for whatever reason never seriously took it for a spin. In my mind, it was the bridge for many, many shooters. Once I knew I really, really enjoyed the caliber and was committed to sticking with it; absolutely there were higher end, sexier, more pleasing models I wanted to incorporate into my collection. However, for the applications and the roles I rely on the G20 for, there still isn't a better tool.
Quote from: Rojo27 on June 26 2018 09:03:44 PM MDT
Been following this thread and all the interesting perspectives on this topic.
While I think there are a multitude of contributing factors but I'd have to cast my lot with Gandog56, 4949shooter and others who've pointed to the Glock 20. As so many have noted, it's anything but a beauty to behold. However, it was for a significant period of time in my view the primary mainstream producer of reliable 10mm pistols. While some may look down their nose at the G20, it was a very reasonably priced vehicle to introduce people to the caliber. There was a lot of talk for 10 or 15 years that 10mm was dead man walking. Very different equation for new people interested in the 10mm to invest $500 bucks into a caliber that looked like it might dry up and blow away vs. $1,300 to $2,500 for a high end 1911. The G20's comparably modest entry cost gave those like me, who clearly remembered the fanfare and adulation of the 10mm's birth, ascendency then near extinction but while always remained interested, for whatever reason never seriously took it for a spin. In my mind, it was the bridge for many, many shooters. Once I knew I really, really enjoyed the caliber and was committed to sticking with it; absolutely there were higher end, sexier, more pleasing models I wanted to incorporate into my collection. However, for the applications and the roles I rely on the G20 for, there still isn't a better tool.
I agree completely and concur that spending big money on pistols isn't something everyone will do. (<me).
I understand the desire to have a very nice all steel weapon.
For me reliablabilty, robust, lower cost, and lighter weight answers more of my needs than other platforms.
Initially I wasn't a big fan of the G20 (price lured me in) due to grip size and overall slide width primarily. After using it for a few months I'm now comfortable with the feel of the weapon in my hand and it's basic "flaws" have not stopped it from becoming a favorite to carry and shoot.
It replaced my fathers WWII 1911 and my Ruger .41 mag Blackhawk as my daily field gun largely because of increased capacity.
Cheers!
I think the reason 10mm made such a comeback is because of its loyal fan base ... And gunmakers answering the "Need and want "
Quote from: SHOOT1SAM on June 25 2018 08:38:13 PM MDT
...and Glock kept it alive...
Sam
Quote from: gandog56 on June 26 2018 02:13:33 PM MDT
As much as I hate to say it, not being a Glock lover, is Glock did way more than just "keep it alive'. As far as I know, for a while they were the ONLY ones who still even made one....
Um, pretty sure that's what I said... ;)
Sam
Ahhh, but that doesn't mean I ever OWNED one! ;) I appreciate the way Glock kept 10mm viable, but they still never made a Glock that felt good in my small fat fingered hand. The only double stack 10 I have is an EAA Witness. I can BARELY get my hand around that double stack grip. But the grip angle of the EAA is more to my liking than the Glock's.
Now Glock double stack magazines, I have a pile of. But only because my TNW Aero 10mm carbine uses them. I ain't trying to fit my hand around them. I have a nice pistol grip BEHIND the magazine.
(https://i.imgur.com/Maf8r69.jpg)
That's a nice rifle Gandog. Could you post some more pics of it?
As others have mentioned.. I feel that Glock , helped keep the 10mm alive .. With the 20 & 29 ,,, which I own both ...Also ammo manufacturers like Underwood that load the 10mm to its full potential..
The 10mm is a fine cartdridge... And so many others are finally figured it out ..
Quote from: my_old_glock on May 25 2018 01:01:52 PM MDT
Quote from: blaster on April 21 2018 04:28:20 PM MDT
I just wish that 10mm brass didn't fly so far! or I wish it was as popular as .45 or 9mm and there was lots of brass to be picked up. [emoji6] having to buy brass for reloading really increases my ammo costs.
http://10mm-firearms.com/general-discussion/40-sw-deep-throat/
Quote from: The_Shadow on May 09 2018 05:30:15 PM MDT
I see Glock's continued supply of models chambered for 10mm as a positive for the continuation the 10mm cartridge/ammunition as an enthusiasts intro, for reasonably prices 10mm guns. Glock's model 20 Sec Gen had been in production fairly early on and the updated models and generations that followed all played a roll in sustaining our favorite cartridge. Glock 20, 29, 40 fill a good niche of the market with their platforms.
I would not own a 10mm if it wasn't for Glock. I have no desire to own any other 10mm guns except maybe an AR Carbine or a revolver, but I don't want to pay a lot for either, so I will not be getting one anytime soon.
.
I can't remember what drew me to the 10mm but the first one I bought was a G29 in 2007 to use as my primary carry weapon. They've bred in my safe and I now have a G20 and a G20 long slide. I love my Glock 10mms. I don't understand the hate for them. They were definitely a key player in it not falling off into obscurity.
I also have a Dan Wesson CBOB in 10mm and am waiting for my RI Ultra FS HC to come in from Buds.
I will probably have Fusion build me a 6" long slide hunter sooner than later.
I also have a 10mm AR15 SBR.
I guess you could say I'm a fan.
EDIT: of course I'm going to have to get a Delta Elite just because. I'll get the railed model because I like railed 1911s. I have seriously contemplated whether to convert it to a ramped barrel as well so I don't have to worry about lack of chamber support whether just perception or reality.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I do believe the Glocks were a huge factor in keeping the 10mm alive, along with the Delta Elite.
Now with the advent of the Glock model 40, we owe even more to this brand / platform in furthering the 10mm cause. The G40 will be my next Glock and next 10mm.
This is not to diminish the contribution of the other manufacturers in their efforts, including both gun and ammo manufacturers.
Absolutely, I have the G40 on my list as well : )
Quote from: 4949shooter on July 05 2018 08:14:43 PM MDT
That's a nice rifle Gandog. Could you post some more pics of it?
Out in my reloading shed, and it's pouring rain right now. Maybe later if I remember. Anything you want a pic of in particular?
Quote from: gandog56 on July 17 2018 01:43:49 PM MDT
Quote from: 4949shooter on July 05 2018 08:14:43 PM MDT
That's a nice rifle Gandog. Could you post some more pics of it?
Out in my reloading shed, and it's pouring rain right now. Maybe later if I remember. Anything you want a pic of in particular?
Anything else you might have of it. If you don't then no big deal.
Interesting rifle / carbine for sure. Got my interest.
Just found a video of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi2niK5OQCE
Quote from: 4949shooter on July 17 2018 02:04:37 PM MDT
Just found a video of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi2niK5OQCE
Nice video
Sure looks like there's some kick to the 10 even with that platform, or could be she only weighs a buck and a quarter too.
There is a great article in the latest issue of American Rifleman about the 10mm and it's various come backs over the years. The author seems to support the idea that this time it is here to stay, and stay in a meaningful way.
Quote from: sqlbullet on July 17 2018 09:18:17 PM MDT
There is a great article in the latest issue of American Rifleman about the 10mm and it's various come backs over the years. The author seems to support the idea that this time it is here to stay, and stay in a meaningful way.
Just read it. I think he covered a lot of details I didn't know really, but didn't spend enough time on the SW 10 Series - no mention of 1006. Overall a good read but you would think he would mention this site for keeping the 10 alive!!
On the one hand...We are just a forum.
On the other hand....
We have 3,274 members at this moment. I WAG'd three 10mm's per member, so we account for about 10,000 firearms in 10mm. That is a pretty significant chunk of the market.
And, we are probably among the more vocal to proselyte the cartridge and it's platforms.
And we are not for profit.
Maybe they should plug us.
Quote from: sqlbullet on July 18 2018 08:16:36 AM MDT
On the one hand...We are just a forum.
On the other hand....
We have 3,274 members at this moment. I WAG'd three 10mm's per member, so we account for about 10,000 firearms in 10mm. That is a pretty significant chunk of the market.
And, we are probably among the more vocal to proselyte the cartridge and it's platforms.
And we are not for profit.
Maybe they should plug us.
Indeed.
Some interesting reading from NRA article Nine Lives of the 10mm Auto
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/7/18/nine-lives-of-the-10-mm-auto/ (https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/7/18/nine-lives-of-the-10-mm-auto/)
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/7/18/nine-lives-of-the-10-mm-auto/#.W0_mZsYU3BU.facebook (https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/7/18/nine-lives-of-the-10-mm-auto/#.W0_mZsYU3BU.facebook)
There are two links at the end to additional info;Full Power/Full Auto: The Thompson Goes Metric And the MP5 Goes American
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/7/18/full-powerfull-auto-the-thompson-goes-metric-and-the-mp5-goes-american/ (https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/7/18/full-powerfull-auto-the-thompson-goes-metric-and-the-mp5-goes-american/)
Field Notes: 10 mm Auto
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/7/18/field-notes-10-mm-auto/ (https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/7/18/field-notes-10-mm-auto/)
Thanks for the links. I didn't realize they put all their content online.
Seems like EVERY gun mag I buy lately has something about some new maker/model of 10mm.
Quote from: gandog56 on July 21 2018 02:04:37 PM MDT
Seems like EVERY gun mag I buy lately has something about some new maker/model of 10mm.
Haha I noticed that too!