I'm considering hunting some hogs with a 10mm handgun, I've done a search and see a lot of people are using JHP, but are hunting deer. I'm just wondering what is the consensus between using hard cast vs JHP for hogs. I'm thinking hard cast with it's penetration is the way to go, but I'd like to hear what people with real experience have to say on the matter.
Almost 300lbs boar...
Underwood 200gr XTP JHP... 25 to 30 yards, 2" below the left ear. Worked like a charm; drt and a satisfying end to a hellacious fracas.
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Quote from: Rojo27 on January 13 2018 10:51:46 PM MST
Almost 300lbs boar...
Underwood 200gr XTP JHP... 25 to 30 yards, 2" below the left ear. Worked like a charm; drt and a satisfying end to a hellacious fracas.
Thanks for the info, I guess at that distance that round would smash through anythings skull.
To me: Hog hunting for thrill, exhilaration and invasive pest reduction.
Hunted them with rifle calibers ranging from 300 win mag to 5.56; pistol calibers from 44 mag to 10mm (used 45acp on one playing possum too) and one dogs & knife hunt.
They're tough and challenging to put down (where you want that is). Both 10mm JHP (of proper composition, mass & energy) & Hardcast (different but similar standard) will get the job done if you put the round in the right spot.
Good luck! Hope you have a blast and hope you have opportunity to try different methods and tools.
Happy hunting!
I've shot quite a few hogs with the 200gr XTP at 1450fps and it's always worked fine.
Tony
That Razor Dobbs fellow hunts hogs and all kinds of game with 155 Barnes rounds. A lot of people more versed than I suggest a deep penetrating JHP for most hunting where you have more controlled shots and deliberate placement. The expanded diameter affords proper shots a larger wound for a quicker kill. The heavy flat bullets, like hardcast, are better for defense from those same game when you will not have the luxury of precision and will not be shooting it at ideal angles (thing is running at you, on you) and it is in adrenaline mode, so your focus goes to penetration.
So avid hunters correct me if I'm wrong, but the theoretical difference is hunting vs. defending. I'm curious what experienced folks use effectively as well.
I mean other than the obvious - Xtreme defenders and hunters and penetrators which not only instantly explode a hog, but all its piggy family members too with the one shot. And due to the fluid dynamics of the rounds that defy physics, it will also butcher and vacuum package all the meat for you before your slide even returns to battery.
Of course hogs come in all sizes, shapes and temperaments. Unless you make a CNS hit you never quite know what the hog will do. So that's the first big variable. My only real suggestion is to look past "JHP" bullets and "hard cast" bullets. Look at the specific bullets in the specific guns and specific velocities that guys get good results with. Then practice and practice and practice until the odds of success are loaded heavily on your side.
My main concern is that I come up on a 150lb hog that I can only get a good shot if I go through his shield, I'm wondering if in that cause a JHP would expand so much that it uses most of its energy penitrating the shield and not have enough energy to do enough damage for a quick kill.
WFN GC cast from Lyman #2 from my model 40 with a 7" KKM is impressive. Accuracy first then the penetration and tissue disruption from the wide flat nose that is .8 of the caliber is impressive and effective. Penetration on big hogs makes a huge difference. In many situations shot angle and place,ent is not always ideal so getting that tissue disruption to the vitals from any angle is paramount. Hardcast WFN gets my vote as long as it is accurate in your gun.
I would choose a good traditional hard cast with a WFN like Ramjet mentions.
By "traditional hard cast" I mean something in the 14-16 bhn range air-cooled, not water quenched wheel weights that are 20+ bhn. Those harder quenched bullets are too brittle IMHO. Great for shooting steel targets or punching paper. Less so for hunting as they may (repeat may) shatter rather than punch through with a little expansion.
If you cast your own, start with clip on wheel weight or similar alloy and add about 1% tin. Should air cool to about 14 BHN and will be plenty malleable.
If you are going to purchase cast bullets this becomes a bit harder. There are lots of factors to consider and they are not particularly well qualified.
As with any hunting situation...bullet placement is the absolute key factor first and far most! Bullet type or construction is the second most factor... Non expanding bullets from 10mm 0.400" where as expanding types could make 0.700" dia.
As with any game animal what the bullet encounters as it hits it's mark becomes the key to incapacitation time frames. Central Nervous System, circulatory disruption for fast blood loss, broken or busted bones can limit mobility but can make the bullet expand more or stop penetration.
Choose wisely, become proficiently accurate with your choices...
So does anyone have any experience with trying to shoot through the shield with a JHP?
I like heavy for caliber hard cast slugs. (I also like the 200g XTP. ;D )
I also like the WFNG GC UNDERWOOD bullet. I load it in the 10MM and wouldn't hesitate to use it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Glock/D7730100-F7A4-491B-BF3D-912585E3211C-5927-000008F6F29B9B0F_zpsa730491d.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Glock/2BAE16A7-4377-46AE-B240-DD6BF095DCD8-11039-000010250055C9D5_zpsd36d8131.jpg)
CW
Underwood and Buffalo Bore's 10mm hardcast bullets are not gas checked. And they don't seem to have a very large flat meplat compared to what some of the guys on here post pictures of in their reloads.
Quote from: dredonn on January 19 2018 12:28:04 AM MST
So does anyone have any experience with trying to shoot through the shield with a JHP?
Not all hogs are created equal. Some have that armor plate on the shoulder and others don't. It makes a huge difference on how your bullet will perform.
Years ago, I shot a big hog right on the shoulder, using a 170gr Sierra HP from a 41JMP Automag. It made it through the armor, BARELY. Penetration was dismal and the recovered bullet looked like a lead nickel.
If it wasn't for a second spinal hit, that hog would have gotten away.
Later that same day, I switched over to a 45 Win Mag Wildey using 260gr Speer HP's. About the same result. Shoulder hit on a large hog and penetration was better than the 170gr Sierrra, but not by much. That hog ran 150yards before falling over.
The next day I took out an LAR Grizzly with factory MasterLoad ammo. I'm not sure what bullet was loaded in that, but they were hollow points. That load zipped through the hog with no trouble at all.
The last hog I shot on that trip, was with a Freedom Arms 454 Casull shooting factory
SSK Industries Freedom Arms 260gr flat point ammo. It had no trouble blowing a hog into the dirt with a complete pass through.
This was in South Texas and the hogs were all about 275 pounds and armored up.
I've also shot a bunch in California and in Oklahoma that didn't have that armor on the shoulder. Several were shot with a 4" Ruger Security Six using 158gr Keith style semi-wadcutters. It had no trouble taking them down.
The only gun I've had problems with, dropping even the wimpy hogs, is the 45 ACP. I wouldn't use it on any kind of hog. Short, fat, slow bullets, don't seem to work very well. Even with no expansion, penetration is dismal. Leave the 45 ACP to shooting gel blocks. It does a good job on those.
Tony Rumore
Tromix
Quote from: TonyRumore on January 20 2018 09:33:48 AM MST
Quote from: dredonn on January 19 2018 12:28:04 AM MST
So does anyone have any experience with trying to shoot through the shield with a JHP?
Not all hogs are created equal. Some have that armor plate on the shoulder and others don't. It makes a huge difference on how your bullet will perform.
Years ago, I shot a big hog right on the shoulder, using a 170gr Sierra HP from a 41JMP Automag. It made it through the armor, BARELY. Penetration was dismal and the recovered bullet looked like a lead nickel.
If it wasn't for a second spinal hit, that hog would have gotten away.
Later that same day, I switched over to a 45 Win Mag Wildey using 260gr Speer HP's. About the same result. Shoulder hit on a large hog and penetration was better than the 170gr Sierrra, but not by much. That hog ran 150yards before falling over.
The next day I took out an LAR Grizzly with factory MasterLoad ammo. I'm not sure what bullet was loaded in that, but they were hollow points. That load zipped through the hog with no trouble at all.
That last hog I shot on that trip, was with a Freedom Arms 454 Casull shooting factory SSK Industries 260gr flat point ammo. It had no trouble blowing a hog into the dirt with a complete pass through.
This was in South Texas and the hogs were all about 275 pounds and armored up.
I've also shot a bunch in California and in Oklahoma that didn't have that armor on the shoulder. Several were shot with a 4" Ruger Security Six using 158gr Keith style semi-wadcutters. It had no trouble taking them down.
The only gun I've had problems with, dropping even the wimpy hogs, is the 45 ACP. I wouldn't use it on any kind of hog. Short, fat, slow bullets, don't seem to work very well. Even with no expansion, penetration is dismal. Leave the 45 ACP to shooting gel blocks. It does a good job on those.
Tony Rumore
Tromix
Thank you for offering your perspective Tony. You give the extremes on hog hunting. I believe that, in 10mm, a 200-220 gr very hard cast tough bullet going faster than 1,200 fps may not be perfect but it will penetrate most any hog with or without a gristle shield and do considerable internal damage. I do not believe such a guarantee can be made of any expanding bullet. Under ideal conditions the expanding bullet is superior but when energy is limited and everything has to be put into boring a deep decent sized hog KILLING hole, IMO, the heavy for caliber WFN bullet has no peers. Lots of bullets work but if deep & difficult penetration is the first order, reasonably fast, heavy and big metplats are my preference.
I think the Double Tap 200gr hardcast doing 1300fps and 750lbs of energy is what I'll be using, I know those will penitrate any shield, I'm hoping they won't just pass through without doing enough damage for a quick kill. I'll be hunting hogs up in North Florida so not sure how tough a shield they'll have, hopefully I'll get lucky and I'll get good opportunities at ear shots.
North FL hogs can have pretty tough shields and be of decent size. The further south in FL you go the more abundant but smaller they get. I'm not too sure those DT's will get close to 1300 FPS like the box claims though. I've been weary of DT for the years of interweb ales of inconsistent volcities. Plus McNett told me their 100 fmj 380 auto ammo offers "great" barrier penetration, great through auto glass and really brings the 380 to full potential. Even his velocity claim was like 800 FPS (full potential?) I asked what kind of bullet it is, and was informed it was a Berry's. I emailed Berry's and they said it's a plated bullet designed for plinking and would likley fragment or tear apart through hard barriers, although they have never tested any of their bullets through any media, since they cater to plinking at the range ammo. That didn't sound optimistic.
Eh, I don't know.