Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: Speer 200gr Speer Gold Dot HP (provided by Intercooler Nov2017)
Ballistics Information: 10mm Auto
Muzzle Velocity: 1100 fps (adjusted to manufacture info)
Muzzle Energy: 537 ft. lbs
Brass Make/Headstamp: Speer- Nickel
Bullet Make/Weight/Construction/Info; Length 0.6930"/Dia. 0.4000": 200gr GDHP
Actual weigh 200.4 grains Crimp Diameter 0.3940"
HP depth 0.2410" / HP 0.2030" tapered cavity / HP mouth 0.2850"
Concave base / black sealant**
C.O.A.L.: 1.2520" / 1.2520"
Primer: Nickel color (clear sealant)
Case: Diameter 0.4205" Crimp Diameter 0.4200" (heavy Crimp)Length 0.9940"
Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight: ? Power Pistol ? 7.0 grains
7.6 grains*
*Primer pellet turned to dust and mixed into the powder turning it yellow green color...had to beat the hell out of this one to remove the bullet.
**Sealant glued the bullets inside the case making it difficult to pull (over 50 strikes with the kinetic puller)
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Added the second powder charge picture, I cut the casing with a dremel so the bullet could be removed with out the primer pellet breaking up and discoloring the powder.
https://www.speer-ammo.com/ammunition/gold-dot-handgun-personal-protection/10mm-auto/10mm-200gr-gold-dot-hp (https://www.speer-ammo.com/ammunition/gold-dot-handgun-personal-protection/10mm-auto/10mm-200gr-gold-dot-hp)
Video
Power Pistol or BE-86 possibly?
I tried to clean the powder with dry paper towels rubbing it to remove the primer mixture. Powders are somewhat porous so it still had a fair amount stuck to it.
Here is a picture of the pulled powder after I tried to clean it next to Power Pistol from 2008
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Yes, it would seem that Speer would use a flash suppressed propellant with any of their Gold Dot loads. 7.6gr of BE-86 would be a max load for a 190gr JHP per Alliant's online load data.
I was thinking the same thing that it would be BE-86 and it very well could be. :-\ With the discolorations of the powder from the priming pellet breaking loose it makes things difficult. :-[
I'm going to try an pull the other one, but I will heat the casing up, to see if the sealant will soften to allow the bullet to pull easier. The first one had plenty of sealant. >:D
I have never had to hit but a few cartridges that hard (usually ones with very light projectiles) or as many times as I did this one. Hoping the second one will pull easy and show better. ::)
Just taking some time to think of what other tools I might have to pull it with. It might be better to take a dremel tool and score the casing and cut a groove or two so the bullet can come out easy.
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only person who had trouble getting one of these disassembled.
On a positive side they should be environmentally stable for carry afield as EDC ammo and there is little chance of bullet setback with repeated chambering.
Now patiently waiting for Speer to offer the 200gr Gold Dot as a component.
You should be using a press mounted puller, much less work. RCBS and Hornady both make good ones.
I'd be willing to bet that a press mounted collet puller would have a difficult time and might damage the bullets beyond reuse.
I have pulled many thousands of cartridges down and have only had maybe 4 or 5 that had issue.
More to follow...
awhile ago I bought some .40 Gold Dot pulled bullets from American Reloading. those bullets had some of the black sealant you are talking about. I wonder what they use to pull massive quantities of bullets without damaging them?
They use a collet type puller but you will see a crimped line in the jacket where the collet grabs the bullet on each side and most of the way around.
OK, I added the second powder charge picture.
I cut the casing with a dremel so the bullet could be removed with out the primer pellet breaking up and discoloring the powder.
To me it looks like Power Pistol the charge was 7.0 grains even.
(https://s20.postimg.cc/68toaonsd/IMG_0288.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/4ts3lyuf1/IMG_0287.jpg)
I thought it was 7.6? Was that due to primer material being in the first one?
More than likely the primer mixture accounts for 3 grains give or take...
Took some comparison pictures today of the two different Speer Gold Dot bullets
Here is the close up of the two 200 grain Gold Dots, notice the amount of black sealant on the back right, it was glued inside the casing tight...
Bullet on the left is #53883 Bullet on the right is #54000
(https://s20.postimg.cc/q84v9hpj1/IMG_0294.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/qxnnlt0cd/IMG_0295.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/ne1pvzi71/IMG_0296.jpg)
Intercooler tested these two bullets as loaded Feb 28th 2018
This was the reloaded 200 grain Gold Dots, one was the new style #54000 and the other #53866 the 40S&W contract pulled with known powder as shown.
200gr Gold Dot #54000/#53883 7.4gr's Power Pistol
EAA Limited Pro 4.75" 1013, 1071 Average = 1042 FPS/ 482 LBS
200gr Gold Dot #54000/#53883 7.4gr's BE-86
EAA Limited Pro 4.75" 1096, 1099 Average = 1097.5 FPS/ 535 LBS
200gr Gold Dot 7.4gr's *(don't know if it was PP or BE-86) *This was the original powder from the pull down used with an old style #53883
EAA Limited Pro 4.75" 1106 FPS/ 543 LBS
Remember that the Factory ammo the bullets are also sealed in the casings...it is what made it so difficult to pull and broke the priming pellet loose in the initial pulls
Thanks!
Now if someone would just kill some Jello...
I'm sending IC these back to test them out and compare the velocities directly from the same gun. This may shed some light on the exact powder used... :P
Two will have 7.4 grains of BE-86 one new 200 gr. Gold Dot #54000 and one old 200 gr. Gold Dot #53883
Two will have 7.4 grains of Power Pistol one new 200 gr. Gold Dot #54000 and one old 200 gr. Gold Dot #53883
Also one will have 7.4 grains of the original ? powder ? with the old 200 gr. Gold Dot #53883
It may be BE-86 powder but we will see how they stack up! 8)
Hey Shadow
Great post.. Didn't know Speer offered a 200gr loading. Would like to see this shot over a chrono to see what it really does...
A little trick I've used over the years when I run into a really stubborn bullet.. Is to put the round under a seating die and actually 'seat' the bullet in further just a little, thereby breaking up the adhesive/sealant. Usually doing this does not damage the bullet in any way, unless the seating plug does not fit the bullet well.
One time while pulling a Rem .40 Golden Sabre, the bullet core popped out and the jacket stayed behind, glued to the case.
Sometimes you think the bullet is on top of so much powder that you can't push it in any more, but eventually it breaks loose.
Thanks RDub01...
QuoteHere are the numbers Intercoler posted in the ammo page;
EAA Limited Pro 4.75" barrel 1068, 1072, 1086. Average 1075.33 FPS/ 514 LBS
EAA Super Match 6" barrel 1128, 1100, 1096. Average 1108 FPS/ 545 LBS
Not real barn burners, but should work pretty well.
QuoteFMS1890, also chronographed some of the Speer 200 GDHP loads this weekend:
Delta Elite 5" barrel - 1074, 1086, 1066, 1069, 1060 - 1071 fps av.
Glock 20 4.6" barrel - 1041, 1025, 1034, 1017, 1003 -1024 fps av.
I would have preferred more velocity.
When the weather permits Intercooler has the ones listed above I sent back to play with and we can get a better feel for them after that testing,
I hope that Speer makes the new 200 gr. Gold Dot #54000 available as components someday! 8)
Thanks Shadow.. Thats about what I would expect from that powder charge.
The only 200gr load I tested was the HSM.. 7.7-7.8grs (most likely Longshot) at 1076fps out of a 4.6" Glock.
Yes, a full power 200gr GoldDot would be an interesting round for sure!
Feb 28th velocity results from IC...
This was the reloaded 200 grain Gold Dots, one was the new style #54000 and the other #53866 the 40S&W contract pulled with known powder as shown.
200gr Gold Dot #54000/#53883 7.4gr's Power Pistol
EAA Limited Pro 4.75" 1013, 1071 Average = 1042 FPS/ 482 LBS
200gr Gold Dot #54000/#53883 7.4gr's BE-86
EAA Limited Pro 4.75" 1096, 1099 Average = 1097.5 FPS/ 535 LBS
200gr Gold Dot 7.4gr's *(don't know if it was PP or BE-86) *This was the original powder from the pull down used with an old style #53883
EAA Limited Pro 4.75" 1106 FPS/ 543 LBS
Remember that the Factory ammo the bullets are also sealed in the casings...it is what made it so difficult to pull and broke the priming pellet loose in the initial pulls
Quote from: The_Shadow on February 28 2018 08:59:57 PM MST
Feb 28th velocity results from IC...
This was the reloaded 200 grain Gold Dots, one was the new style #54000 and the other #53866 the 40S&W contract pulled with known powder as shown.
200gr Gold Dot #54000/#53883 7.4gr's Power Pistol
EAA Limited Pro 4.75" 1013, 1071 Average = 1042 FPS/ 482 LBS
200gr Gold Dot #54000/#53883 7.4gr's BE-86
EAA Limited Pro 4.75" 1096, 1099 Average = 1097.5 FPS/ 535 LBS
200gr Gold Dot 7.4gr's *(don't know if it was PP or BE-86) *This was the original powder from the pull down used with an old style #53883
EAA Limited Pro 4.75" 1106 FPS/ 543 LBS
Remember that the Factory ammo the bullets are also sealed in the casings...it is what made it so difficult to pull and broke the priming pellet loose in the initial pulls
An old trick my uncle taught me was to put the cartridge in your press, and push the bullet down with the seater die about .2 or so. It breaks the sealant. Has worked well pulling military 30-06 AP bullets using the kinetic hammer method
Thanks for the tip about the sealant, I know that the Speer sealant is sort of rubbery yet it held very firmly!
Lucky Gunner has tests posted on their website of the 200gr GD in clear ballistics gel.
Quote from: The_Shadow on July 07 2019 09:13:19 AM MDT
Thanks for the tip about the sealant, I know that the Speer sealant is sort of rubbery yet it held very firmly!
Welcome, and it is, I remember it well on the 124 grain gold dot +p load I pulled down. I will say it works well, unless it's a very compressed load, but not to often a factor in pistol ammo. There's a few loads it won't work on without bullet deformation, however for the majority it should help.
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