(http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7631/glockglove.jpg)
:P
That might help! ;D
I was only kidding Glockers ;D
I'm going with these just in case. I do have a small scar on the back of my hand from a piece of metal that embedded itself in the back of my hand from an out of time .38 next to me. Will take some getting comfortable with but worth it I think.
http://www.amazon.com/Hatch-KSG500-Shooting-Kevlar-X-Large/dp/B001DZT6HY/ref=sr_1_2?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1354826277&sr=1-2&keywords=kevlar+shooting+gloves
Wonder why we see it in Glocks more than any other firearm? If you go to Google... hit images and type "Glock Kaboom" you will be floored with the pictures on there :o
UnderWoods products work fine for new ammo for glocks.It's not a mystery.If one is CCW,ill stay with a Glock.Im not going to judge with reloads.
LOL. 8)
The occurrence of KB!'s is not necessarily more prevalent with Glock pistols. They are simply more popular, and are most often chosen by those who exceed the limits, if for no other reason, the entry cost, and the ease and availability of aftermarket modifications. Of all the KB!'s I've seen and experienced, NONE are the fault of the pistols, in any case. Contrary to popular belief, a traditional steel frame 1911 experiencing the same type of failure is much more catastrophic. Both guns die, but the 1911 causes more injury to the shooter, all else being equal. I've never seen or heard of a Glock pistol fly apart during "normal use", but 1911's have, and do for a variety of reasons when the original design is exceeded. I have nothing against 1911's, and Glock pistols aren't the be-all-end-all of the pistol world (I shoot them, side by side), but facts are facts. Maybe in another 70 years, the odds will even out a bit, although I doubt it.
I find the whole Glock barrel issues suspect. I don't know another platform with as much info, pictures and videos.
This is the problem. Both cases he describes was 100% ammo related. In the case of the G27 KB!, it was the shooter's fault, for not properly clearing a squib (he didn't check the barrel). To fault the Glocks is not right, as the result would likely have been just as bad, or worse, with any other make/model, or barrel. To say "I cannot recommend a Glock .40" because of these experiences, is like blaming a pencil for misspelling.
It gets into a Science we can't see. Maybe more goes on in the cycling of a round through a Glock that isn't exactly right.
What was he talking about the barrels not being up to Spec?
There are several things that come to mind here!
Bullet set back which caused higher than normal chamber pressures...
Factory overload which was not cought by powder check...
Loose bullet fit which slid forward to block and obstruct the bore prior to ignition...
LEO are taught to tap and rack to clear a malfunction. Did he have a malfunction prior to the KaBoom? Was he practicing with dummy plastic cartridges mixed in the mag for training, if he did did that get stuck in the bore?
Metal fatigue of the chamber can also be considered as the chamber area is very thin on the smaller and lighter weight guns.
At any rate, stuff can and will happen it is Murphy's Law! :o
DM1906 is correct in my book.
Intercooler, I dare you to post this for your new buddies over on Glocktalk. :P
;D
That would be funny. I know many of them are reloads but something seems missing. In the 10mm platforms I wonder why we don't see it in other models? People are reloading them too. Oddly, in the other platforms people are just using the barrels that were installed in the guns (except maybe the Delta).
Quote from: Intercooler on December 08 2012 03:19:00 PM MST
It gets into a Science we can't see. Maybe more goes on in the cycling of a round through a Glock that isn't exactly right.
What was he talking about the barrels not being up to Spec?
The science isn't the problem. Some things are obvious, some not. The G27 incident is simple quantum physics: multiple instances of matter cannot occupy the same space, at the same time. A couple Newton's Laws also apply. Short of forensic investigation results (which we won't likely ever see), we are left with the most likely causes of failure. It isn't likely Glock will accept responsibility for a defective G23 barrel, nor will they accept responsibility for the G27 barrel obstruction. Ammo failure is the most likely suspect in both cases.
The mention of "out of spec" barrels was a reference to oversize chamber. This isn't news, and didn't appear to be a surprise to either shooter. Irrelevant, in either case. A tighter chamber with greater case support may have caused a greater catastrophe in the case of the G27 KB!, while it wouldn't have likely made a difference with the G23 case. In either case, it would have been a matter of effect, and not a causal factor.
Quote from: Intercooler on December 09 2012 11:04:32 AM MST
;D
That would be funny. I know many of them are reloads but something seems missing. In the 10mm platforms I wonder why we don't see it in other models? People are reloading them too. Oddly, in the other platforms people are just using the barrels that were installed in the guns (except maybe the Delta).
Neither pistol discussed in this thread were 10mm's. The failure rate may or may not be higher for 10mm pistols, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were. Of all the Glock pistols in service, the 10mm's are the least likely to be issued by law enforcement, or used by weekend casual shooters. The typical 10mm owner/shooter is more likely to be one of higher power demands (desires), hunters, or enthusiasts. Couple this with the rather weak offering of commercial ammo, the result is a higher rate of handloaded ammo being used in the platform. The fact is, similar failures do happen in other calibers/platforms, and it's likely to be at a very similar
per-unit in service rate. DE's don't fail any more often than any other pistol, when used as designed and recommended. The failure rate of any platform will fail at a higher rate, any time it is modified, or non-recommended ammo is used. Every common firearm manufacturer disclaims any responsibility for a modified firearm, or the use of handloaded ammo. A firearm used as recommended will rarely ever suffer a catastrophic failure. It really is that simple.
I have read enough Glock issues to keep me away from them. In plastic I have an XD and it's been a joy!
One of the hot topics on the Glock board now is one that went off in a holster. Guess they are trying to figure it out how that occured but one more reason I like the safety on the back of the XD as an additional measure.
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1455870
One guy had an issue with an Underwood 115gr and they are still trying to figure out what the issue is with the G26 while my XD eats them like candy. He did get another G26 owner that was having a similar experience but the finger is pointed at you guessed it... the ammo.
Since none of us have been able to actually see the failed equipment and no authoritatve inspection results have been posted we actually have no idea of the causallity. I,ve seen 2 rifles destroyed by bore obstructions at NRA certified matchs; both caused by squib loads. I have no fear of my Glocks going up in smoke unless I do somethig really dumb. The only pistol I,ve ever had that caused worry was a new EAA Witness Match that pig bellied brass so bad you couldnt hammer a fired case back into the chamber. While sad to see, these kabooms are going to happen no matter how cautious we are. All we can do is follow all the applicable safety rules and hope Murphy doesnt find us.
Dennis
Quote from: Intercooler on December 09 2012 12:44:55 PM MST
I have read enough Glock issues to keep me away from them. In plastic I have an XD and it's been a joy!
One of the hot topics on the Glock board now is one that went off in a holster. Guess they are trying to figure it out how that occured but one more reason I like the safety on the back of the XD as an additional measure.
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1455870 (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1455870)
One guy had an issue with an Underwood 115gr and they are still trying to figure out what the issue is with the G26 while my XD eats them like candy. He did get another G26 owner that was having a similar experience but the finger is pointed at you guessed it... the ammo.
The thread link is irrelevant to the discussion. It was a completely different type of failure, if it was a failure. Of course, the 50 or so experts on board have it all figured out. How many AD's have you heard of that weren't caused by handler error? Of all the handguns you have, which one in the collection is MOST likely to AD? If you added a Glock, or 10 of them to your collection, the answer would be the same. I'm not a Glock advocate, and of all the handguns in my collection, I have fewer Glocks than any other common brand. If you own a 1911 (or clone), you have the pistol with the all time record for AD's (by a very large margin), and it isn't likely to lose that record in the next century. Adding extra buttons and levers doesn't cancel the human factor. All of the common brand handguns in good (original) condition are safe, when handled properly. No one is less safe than any other.
Also, it isn't uncommon for auto-pistols to have a particular appetite. Some are more picky than others, but they will all have a wide variety of ammo they will shoot. Why that G26 doesn't like Underwood 115's, I don't know (were they +P, or +P+?). It's certainly not the only 9mm with a picky appetite. In any case, the Underwood 115 would not be on my list of recommended ammo for that pistol, and I'm surprised other sub-compacts don't experience the same, more often. The problem is still the ammo, not the pistol. If your XD shoots all you've fed it, that's good. Have you tried all of the ammo available for your pistol? There's probably at least one out there it doesn't like.
I sure have. Everything from 158gr down to 115+P+ by all the big names and not so big names. I think it would shoot pumpkin balls if you could load them into brass.
I can say the same thing for my early Gen 3 Glock 19. That pistol eats everything I have fed it. Same goes for the three .40 glocks I own.
My G20? This gun is more picky with the ammo I use in it. Other G20 owners say their twenties feed everything. I think you were right when you indicated in the other thread it could have been unique to that particular G26.
The real comparison though, as DM1906 alludes, would be this: Have you fired your XD when it had a bullet stuck in the bore, or with a known double charge of powder?
The answer, of course, is no, you haven't. We all know these things will destroy any gun. It appears to happen more often with a Glock for two reasons.
First, there are more of them out there, and they are often owned buy guys who shoot lots of rounds. Statistically they will have a higher number of incidents. Whether or not they have a higher rate, I don't know, nor do I know where I would get data on the subject.
Second, due to the mystical abilities attributed to Glock perfection, I would suspect when a kaboom does occur, it receives a disproportionate amount of press. If a Taurus blows up, everyone's reaction is "Meh...What did you expect from a second tier gun?". Not so with a Glock.
I have one Glock in my stable - a G29. It is an accurate and reliable gun. It is remarkable only in it's size and weight. Otherwise, it performs pretty much like my 1911's and Witness's. I feed it quality ammo, either factory or handloads, and it goes bang when I pull the trigger, not kaboom.
Lighten up gentlemen, I think IC only posted the photo as a joke. ;D
'I think...' That has gotten me into trouble before....
I think they know. I put right in the beginning only joking.
Now if someone puts up a Witness one :-[
Quote from: Intercooler on December 10 2012 02:11:16 PM MST
Now if someone puts up a Witness one :-[
Witness? Don't those come with JB Weld for the cracks? :P
Sorry, couldn't help myself.........
Only if you shoot the good stuff.
Quote from: EdMc on December 10 2012 05:15:01 PM MST
Quote from: Intercooler on December 10 2012 02:11:16 PM MST
Now if someone puts up a Witness one :-[
Witness? Don't those come with JB Weld for the cracks? :P
Sorry, couldn't help myself.........
The JB Weld is only for the Elite line. The standard models come with duct tape. :P
Reminds me of when I went into a local pawn shop/gun dealer looking for a used Delta. He said we used to call them 'crackers'. ;D Right away I knew he didn't have one...... ;)
Ill take the Glock over the Witness,DE,or any other variation of 10mm in a pistol platform in a knock down,drag em out firefight. :-*
Quote from: pacapcop on December 12 2012 04:20:39 AM MST
Ill take the Glock over the Witness,DE,or any other variation of 10mm in a pistol platform in a knock down,drag em out firefight. :-*
Logically I agree. And yet, most days when I check my holster, the 1911 has found it's way onto my hip. 8)
If only Sig made one,away with the Glock id go.
Better keep you eyes open for one of the Grey Guns conversions they did of Sig 220's. He may still do them on request. Might be worth asking if you really want one.
But, they ain't cheap.
Quote from: sqlbullet on December 12 2012 07:51:01 AM MST
Better keep you eyes open for one of the Grey Guns conversions they did of Sig 220's. He may still do them on request. Might be worth asking if you really want one.
But, they ain't cheap.
How ain't cheap are they?
I wanna say that Grey Guns charged $2000 or $2500 + the cost of the base gun.
Last one I say for sale went for $3,100.00
Quote from: sqlbullet on December 12 2012 11:19:21 AM MST
I wanna say that Grey Guns charged $2000 or $2500 + the cost of the base gun.
Last one I say for sale went for $3,100.00
Ouch. Way too rich for my wallet.
9mm Glock 19 shooting standard CCI Blazer Brass factory ammo. Beats me but they seem to think ammo was not the issue so if it quacks like a Duck :o
Has to have been a case blowout, which will dump the high pressure into the lower breech and down the mag well. Damage dosen't appear to be as bad as higher pressure rounds like 40S&W and 10mm.
They stated it wasn't the ammo.
In some instances of a case blowout, the jetting of gases can force itself into the brass of the next round in the magazine, this can ignite the powder in some instances. If that happens, then that round will also add to the expanding gas event to exert even more pressure ti the frame areas to crack the frame and blow the magazine out.
Quote from: The_Shadow on December 25 2012 03:57:36 PM MST
In some instances of a case blowout, the jetting of gases can force itself into the brass of the next round in the magazine, this can ignite the powder in some instances. If that happens, then that round will also add to the expanding gas event to exert even more pressure ti the frame areas to crack the frame and blow the magazine out.
While this can happen, I've never seen it (except in staged demonstrations). Only heard of the possibility. If it were to happen, it would be a catastrophic KB!, and nothing like what we've seen. When a KB! happens with a round chambered, most of the gas pressure exits the barrel, ejection port, and magazine channel (while the mag is blown out). A magazine detonation would see the frame and magazine completely rupture, and cause significant injury, or worse. The cartridge case would likely exit through a new hole to the rear. This would be the only time an all steel frame (1911, et al) may be desirable. Newton's 3rd physical law applies, in any case.
Stating that a round detonates "out of battery" only describes the event. It speaks nothing of the cause, be it the cartridge, pistol material, or design failure. In almost every case, the cause is the cartridge, and/or operator error (obstructed bore, poor maintenance, etc.). First generation Glocks could fire out of battery, due to an issue with the striker safety. I suspect that was the case with the G19 KB! (which appeared to be a Gen 1 or early 1.5), perhaps coupled with a fouled chamber (I've seen a few of these), or other issue. Most of the time, they are essentially uneventful, causing only minor injury (hand bruising), and no upper pistol damage. I don't know of any that Glock didn't cover under warranty, or at least offer replaced parts at cost. I've seen many more times S&W revolvers blown apart than Glock autos (or any auto, for that matter), regardless of the cause. Considering the number of models in service, they are well below the
common rate of failure. I am not a Glock advocate, and have fewer Glock pistols than any other brand. I own more S&W revolvers (confidently) than any other handgun type.