with the 10mm being a good woods defense option im wondering what are your opinions on the g20 and g40 as far as woods defense. will the longer barrel of the g40 give you more noticable penetetration and velocity that would make a difference in a situation where you may have to shoot a large animal such as a grizzly? using the same ammo in the g20 as the g40 what are your opinions?
thanks
The longer barrel will probably add about 65 to 80 fps over the shorter barrel. Some JHP bullets will expand more at the higher velocity and not penetrate as deep...Hard cast bullet will drive much deeper but reliable feeding could become an issue...
Get to know your gun and ammo to insure they work together.
Have owned the Glock 20SF for a few years along with the G29 and both are great. Bought a KKM 6" barrel for the 20 that gives the G40 velocity. I do like the ability to carry the shorter stock barrel of the G20 something the G40 cannot do. While I would like to have the MOS system that I would use mainly for load accuracy development or hunting I accomplished that with the UM Tactical mount and Burris FF III that goes on/off at will. Having already owned a nice Redhawk Hunter in .44mag its kind of a stretch to talk about needing a G40 as a hunting handgun. There are probably some states like Wyoming where the COAL needs to be 1.5" or longer for big game eliminating the 10mm.
Griz eh? 12 ga slugs come to mind first (in a full auto shotgun!).
But back to the real world... The G29 is far easier to carry for long periods than a G20. The G20 is far easier to carry for long periods than a G40... all things being equal (I have all 3). But in the reverse, under stress the G40 is the easiest to shoot well and the G29 the hardest. Longer barrels mean better velocity as usual.
I keep reading of how the G20 seems to do pretty well against big bears but, at best, I think it should be looked at as "barely enough this one time". My 5.5" Ruger Redhawk in 45 Colt will drive a 405gr WFN hard cast bullet at 1,150 fps. That gives me much more confidence than "barely enough". But to be fair.... unless I sensed the threat, I would probably carry my G20 on a daily basis in the field (and there is a lot more out there than bears).
So the best I can offer you is a circular argument that is full of maybe's and sorta's. But for me I'd carry the G20 knowing full well it is far from the best choice overall. The G40 is better but harder to carry. The Redhawk is way better but much harder to carry. YMMV.
I'll take the 40 and the advantages of the longer barrel over the 20 any day. Sold the 20 SF after buying both a 29, and a 40. The 29 is in the carry rotation, and the 40 is the woods gun. With the Kenai chest holster, carrying all day is no problem.
thanks for the replys. i think ill buy a g40 for my woods gun and just keep the 20 as my edc.
Twilight Zone - this is exactly the question I was going to post myself.......kinda spooky.
I do a lot of backpacking/hiking/backcountry skiing (no worries, Lads, nobody would call me a candidate for the Sierra Club)
and I carried a Glock 20 3rd Gen in an M12 issue holster, with the M12 mag pouch modified for those fatass 15-round mags. My rounds were handloads, 200g Hornady FMJFP & VV N105 for an average vel of 1150.
The truth is that my odds of crossing paths with a grizz in northern Minnesota were exactly ZERO, but there was always a chance I'd be fortunate enough to do some true wilderness stuff in Alaska, so I chose the sledgehammer 10mm for a sidearm.
A rifle would have been a more practical weapon, but I'm one of those Loons that take everything but the kitchen sink in my pack (or sled), and I'm already loaded down with enough gear...... ;D
I've been away from shooting for the last 5 years or so, and I had no idea there was such a beast as a G40. Gorgeous gun!......must have!
Going to have to modify an M12 for the longer slide. Pity I don't know of any shop capable of working with this kind of nylon stuff :(
Likely I'll be checking in here a lot. Best forum for 10mm I've yet seen!
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One of the advantages of the G-40 is the longer barrel, but they did make longer barrels for the G-20s before the 40 came about.
So the real difference is the sighting options that the milled slide provides with current sights and future sights being made.
As newer technologies allow for better clearer sharper sight pictures to place shots on target! ;D
Longer barrels with the G20 always looked awkward and ugly to me. The G40, though, is a gorgeous gun, like a thoroughbred race horse.
I'm one of those Old School Geezers that had Jeff Cooper as a Mentor, so I never much cared for scopes on any pistol. Or "new-fangled" sights like Trijicon, Red Dot or whatnot. And I never used handguns for hunting. Just my gun philosophy; doesn't apply to anybody but me and a handful of my Generation or older.
Looking through the latest Brownells offerings, I can't find the sights I used to use on my G20, which I really loved. They were Millet, with a white outline adjustable rear, and a recessed white line for the front........guess I'll have to keep searching! Whatever I use has got to work with an issue M12 holster; I found a way to lengthen the nylon shell to cover the open muzzle. Sharp sights will definitely catch and rip that nylon for sure!
Thanks for the reply! I'm pretty much a Noobian on this forum ;D
One of the nice things about this forum is shown in this thread. It shows a very intelligent thoughtful look at the possibilities. It's not about changing minds (nearly impossible anyway) but in sharing what works for each of us. Well done.
BTW... I have never had a chest rig. A good one just might make the G40 more main line for me.
Kenai chest holster & Glock G40........right hand only, of course >:D
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Diamond D Leather....
Quieter and better looking than kydex (my opinion on the looks)
Wearing mine right now, used the G40 this morning to deter an inquisitive bear while deer hunting.
Didn't shoot the bear, just scared the shit out of him with a few rounds between his front legs from about 50 feet.
(https://s26.postimg.org/sqvw0mtq1/IMG_20170926_163525.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Beautiful leatherwork!
Haven't seen anything yet for Southpaws, though. Only the Bianchi M12/UM84 will work for me, after I modify it a bit for the longer slide.
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Diamond D makes them in left hand...
Go to their website and order it direct.
Cabela's and such don't carry the left hand, but you can order them everyday straight from Diamond D.
https://www.diamonddcustomleather.com/products/guides-choice-chest-holster
Is that a 7" barrel on the G40 Ridgerunner?? I'm contemplating an aftermarket bbl for mine, for shooting heavy hardcast. The thought has crossed my mind to go a bit longer, if for no other reason than to be able to tell at a glance which one is in the gun.
Back to the topic at hand, I got the G40 for solo hiking in black bear country. 5-1/2" is minimum barrel length legal for hunting where I live, so it only made sense. While I might hunt with it just because, I have handguns that are better suited to that task....
Yes it is...KKM... Money well spent.
200 grain bullets at 1,300 fps, using book data... And 100 yard accurate too, on an 8" target.
150-155 grain bullets at 1,500+ with well below max, easy on the brass, loads.
Thank you for all the load info. What was the reason for the longer tube (not that any of us need one), state hunting regs? Off the shelf barrel?
I wanted all the power I could safely get (strictly published data for me)... Without getting too long and cumbersome to carry (LW offers a 9").
The G40 is purely a hunting pistol for me, mostly deer.
4" barrels are legal here in TN, I started out thinking I'd get a 41 mag, but then the 40 came out and I decided that was close enough for deer, then I stumbled across KKM's 7" barrels... And got a little closer to the 41 mag... I can get 750-800 ft. lbs. pretty easy.
I'm just not a revolver guy, never have been... The powerful ones get pretty heavy to carry.
The factory barrel shoots just fine, not quite as accurate as the KKM, but plenty enough for most uses.... Its a little harder to hit that 100 yard steel with, but it will hit it... I'm probably going to sell the factory barrel though, don't see me ever needing it.
I've had more fun with this pistol than any I've ever owned, the looks I get at the range when I start banging on the 100 and 150 yard steel are priceless.
Thanks again! Agreed, revolvers (single action Ruger Bisleys in my case) are too heavy for hiking. I don't put on too many miles hunting, so it's not much of an issue for me.
Obvious facts:
1) The G40 has a longer slide/barrel and will give higher velocity and more power from a given cartridge.
2) The G40 has a longer sight radius unless you use a red-dot sight.
3) The G40 is heavier than the G20.
Possibilities
1) A G20, because it is lighter and has a shorter barrel and slide, may be able to be drawn faster than a G40. The faster you can draw the quicker you can end the threat.
2) A heavier G40 may give you a quicker second shot.
Other thoughts.
If a specific bullet requires (X) amount of energy/power to completely pass through a bear, there is little reason to shoot a bullet that gives you (X + some extra power). If a 200-grain solid bullet needs 600ft/lbs of energy to pass through a bear and that can be achieved with a G20, there is no reason to get the longer barreled G40 to increase the energy.
I did some tests in water with 210-grain bullets shot from my G20. (see post #43) http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo/41-magnum-bullets-in-a-10mm/30/
I shot a hollow point and a solid bullet of the same weight from a G20 @ ~1100 fps. The hollow point penetrated two twelve inch boxes and was found in the third. That means the bullets penetrated between 2 and 3 feet. The solid went through 5 feet of water and was lost. A rough comparison shows that the solid penetrated 2x the distance of a hollow point.
The average length of a Grizzly bear is 6.5 feet. Skin, bones, and muscles are not the same as water, but there is a good chance the solid bullet I tried would also penetrate 5 feet in a bear.
I don't have to worry about grizzly bears in California. I carry a G20.
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Points taken.
With my G20, I was shooting Hornady 200g FMJFP, with VV N105 powder. My 10mm handload equivalent to military ball ammo.
The backdrop was a low area of swamp muck. Those Hornady's plowed a huge furrow, so it was easy to find the slugs.
90% weren't even deformed, unless they hit a random rock. I mic'd them, and except for rifling engraving, they were still to spec.
I see Hornady discontinued the FMJFP. Booger-eating Management >:(
Quote from: my_old_glock on September 26 2017 07:10:34 PM MDT
If a specific bullet requires (X) amount of energy/power to completely pass through a bear, there is little reason to shoot a bullet that gives you (X + some extra power). If a 200-grain solid bullet needs 600ft/lbs of energy to pass through a bear and that can be achieved with a G20, there is no reason to get the longer barreled G40 to increase the energy.
In a perfect world on a relaxed critter I'd say this is true. In the real world we all know
stuff happens, so the X amount of energy required theory doesn't work. Hunters, as one example, everywhere have stories of the "perfect shot" that failed to achieve the desired result. Again
stuff happens. To say I only need X amount of energy is silly, in my opinion. Most definitely, in many cases this theory is sound. I think it's fairly safe to say though, that most of us aren't armed because of the normal situations in every day life. We're armed for the, admittedly few (hopefully never!), occasions when things go south in a hurry. In those instances I bet there are very few who didn't wish for the biggest, baddest gun/load available. More, short of total overkill, IS better.
In the early 70's, I saw pix in Guns & Ammo of a .45 longslide built from a standard Series 70 Colt; it was the coolest, sexiest pistol I'd ever seen.
Decades later I bought an AMT Hardballer Longslide in stainless, which was cool. The AMT just didn't have the level of quality I wanted, though, certainly not up to Colt's standards.
When the Glock 20 Gen One's hit the market, I grabbed one immediately. It was the kind of "Dark Horse" cartridge that suited my personality 100%. (I think it was Gary James of G&A who first quoted the "Dark Horse" phrase for the Ten).
So, when the G40 entered my field of vision, it was only a natural progression to buy one.......
Quote from: samt on September 21 2017 09:28:58 PM MDT
with the 10mm being a good woods defense option im wondering what are your opinions on the g20 and g40 as far as woods defense. will the longer barrel of the g40 give you more noticable penetetration and velocity that would make a difference in a situation where you may have to shoot a large animal such as a grizzly? using the same ammo in the g20 as the g40 what are your opinions?
thanks
Got rid of the 20 for the 40 I like the MOS , Shoots smoother, better sight radius, more velocity. Have the 29 for EDC
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