I don't have one but have been looking into them. I love the looks of a Wingmaster but new they are $700 and used $300-$400. Looking through the Mossberg lineup I saw one there also very nice (let me dig it up). Always better to go pump rather than Semi if things get crazy right? The Remington Express is nice but not eye candy or finished like the Wingmaster. Who knows shotguns here?
http://grabagun.com/mossberg-sons-inc-50126-500-12-3in-28-accu-wal.html
First shotgun I shot was the Remington 12ga. 870 Wingmaster, sweet natural point as my dad let me shoot it. When I was old enough, I purchased my own 870, many ducks, rabbits and squirrels have been harvested with it! It still stands ready as ever.
Do you think Remington is putting out a better product than Mossberg these days? I'm a lefty so the safety on the Moss is better positioned. Used Remington on new Moss? I have birthday money burning a hole in my pocket :D
I would suggest trying them out to see how they feel, point and swing for you. I haven't studied the Shotgun market but both are nice guns. If you're a lefty try to find one for your lefty controls that will make a difference too! ;)
If you simply want a no-nonsense pump 12GA with great features that handles ALL shell lengths available and won't fail you then the Benelli Nova, field or tactical setups, is the only dog left in the fight. Either tactical or field models can be had for well under $500 brand spanking new.
They use a dual slide rail design so the pump action will always slide perfectly rearward and back forward. The stock and receiver are mated as a single unit. With the push of a button you can keep rounds from feeding from the magazine and change out a round in the chamber if need be. The butt stock is designed with a space for a mercury recoil reducer. It incorporates a rotary head locking lug bolt system. Slug barrels are available and easily changed out. Choose barrel lengths of 24", 26", or 28", except for slug barrels that are only available in 24". The firearm is warrantied from Benelli for 10 YEARS. If they ever need to replace your gun with a new one, that new one starts the 10 YEAR warranty period over again. When it was said there was no way to further innovate the pump shotgun the folks at Benelli proved different. 8)
I personally own a Benelli semi-auto that I bought new in July of 2001. In that time I have run +3500 rounds through it, very few of them being less than a hot load. Still looks and operates like brand new.
Going with anything else is settling for less, unless you want a side-by-side, over and under, a super tricked out trap/skeet/sporting-clays setup(s), or you simply prefer wood.
http://www.benelliusa.com/shotguns/benelli-nova-pump.php (http://www.benelliusa.com/shotguns/benelli-nova-pump.php)
That's my $0.02. Good Luck! Keep us informed.
Do they have something decent to look at? :o
Don't discount the semi's.I got 2 of them and perform reliable.Both Saiga 12's.I shoot clays with target loads and full 3" mag loads.I have stick mags,12 rounders,8's and 5's.i can reload at the drop of a hat even with bolt closed.I did't get crazy tricking it out,and it's 922r compliance if i used it for defense purposes.8 rounders are liked,good for close quarters.They even make tacticle vests for em.it lays massive fire power down.i here some law enforcement agencys are getting them,just don't no which ones.they are battle guns,Russian Spetnaz forces use them.You can ck out Buds,they have a line up of Limberta shotguns that seem intresting and come semi or pump.
I'm with Redline on this one.
I own a Benelli Nova tactical (rifle sights version) and it's an incredible shotgun. The smoothness of the pump action is second to none in the inexpensive short barrel pump shotgun market. I tried the Remington 870 and the Mossberg 500 and neither felt as good to me. The versatility of being able to shoot 2-3/4", 3", and 3-1/2" magnum shells is a huge plus. I added the extended tube and it gives me 7+1 rounds of 2-3/4" 00-buck sitting near the bed.
Love that gun.
I tend to agree with Redline as well. If you can find an older 870 for a good price, it would be a solid gun. But, from what I have read and seen, the new ones are not up to the same standard the old ones were.
Mossberg is Mossberg. I had one years ago. It was a good gun, but not outstanding in any way.
I will say that I am with Redline, as well. A while back I was in need of a utility shotgun so I started my investigation. What I found was that SQLbullet is right about the newer 870's, they seem to be more problematic,even though aftermarket suport is great, I didn't want to deal with the 870. Also, as stated, Mossbergs are Mossbergs. They are decent but can have their problems, too. After looking at the Benellis (I like the way they look) it seemed that the Nova was the best bang for the buck since I couldn't forsee a need to change the buttstock later. It's light and the fit and finish is great. The action is smooth and with the extended foregrip you don't have to reach way the hell forward to cycle the thing (of course you can change them on other guns). The only intial drawback I had seen was the cost of a slug barrel was high (in relation to the cost of the gun)...further investigation showed that slug chokes actually work (I was a bit surprised). So all in all, the amount of features and versatility that Benelli offers at the price point of the Nova, it seems hard to beat, IMHO.
I've heard the same thing as others have mentioned regarding newer model 870s not living up to the same standards as what once made them the go-to pump action platform. Talk about a stupid business decision, at least in my mind.
Is there a specific reason you didn't start this thread in the Shotguns section of Miscellaneous Firearms?
Guess I overlooked it. Can someone move it?
Thanks for moving it! I have been researching and it's the plastic Glock of the Shotgun World :o
Well you've loosely commented on taking the dive on a Glock. Maybe you could get a Glock and a Benelli Nova? A combo like that could change your life as you know it. Whether for better or worse.....well you won't know till you take the leap. :D
I think it was about three weeks ago I visited the PA Cabela's and tried the Gen 4 Glock. Yea... still can't ever own one and I'm good with that. I will try to locate one of these in a local store and compare all three. Just not a plastic fan :D
Sometimes it's about more than just the plastic.
Tried a Maverick, Express and Mossberg with wood stocks. The Express had the best action out of all of those but I like the safety on the Mossberg better. Also tried a 887 (I think that's it) and the slide release was on the front of the trigger guard. Sucked!
One thing for sure i need a folding stock.Im in a old structure with tight doorways and lots of partisions.You been spoiled by that wonderful grip of the Witness Match.Putting a Glock in your hand is like gripping a cereal box.I got over that hump.
They didn't have a Nova to try?
This Walmart didn't carry any Benellis. Shockingly you can order a Wingmaster through their catalog for $679. Later this week I'm going to the gun store to look at the Benelli and a Browning BPS.
4 positives in that video for the Mossberg vs the 870.
Any truth to this 1/8" gap leading to light strikes he talks about in this video? I checked these models at Walmart today and tend to believe this is only with a Benelli.
While he was demonstrating what he called an 1/8th" gap, certainly didn't appear to be an 1/8th" gap to me. More like a 1/16th" maybe.
My first question is; What idiot literally pulls back on the pump action before and during firing a round?!? Besides that, clearly he had to force the pump action to go back for it to go back at all.
Other questions are; What actually is wrong with his gun? Something or nothing? If something is wrong with his gun, is it his fault or the gun's fault? Was he tinkering with it? If he did tinker with it, did he reassemble it correctly? In this video he doesn't have a clue what's wrong or why. He makes it cycle again by banging it on stuff. ::) He brings up numerous other recent firearm purchases that he claims have been nothing but problematic too. Does he even have the magazine nut tightened down that's holding the whole gun together? I don't know, and it seems he might not either. It's the first thing I'ld check.
Forgive me on the off chance I'm jumping to conclusions, but I feel I'ld have to hear a whole lot more from other sources before reading anything into whatever we saw between that dude and his Benelli in his video.
I commented on his video how he was half-shucking it causing the jams. I'm not convinced everyone out there has what it takes upstairs to own guns :o
Long ago someone told me not to believe anything you read and half of what you see........that was long before the internet and Youtube. ;D
Redline, there was a whole group of people that were taught to apply backward pressure on the pump during firing to speed the cycling of the action. I remember some guys where I grew up telling me this. Never seems like a good idea to me, but there are people who do it.
I've owned and had most common brands of shotguns, pump and auto: Winchester, Remington, Benelli, Browning, Mossberg, and a few I don't remember. I still have some of them, the rest have been gifted or traded around with family/friends. The best "shooting", by far, was the Browning auto. However, it was problematic unless it was freshly cleaned. Not a field gun for more than day trips. I don't think I would rely on it for home/self defense. Winchesters and Remingtons, well, they are what they are. I don't know about anything new within about the last 20 years, but had the 870 poised to vaporize a gumball machine for decades, and it never failed. As said, the Benelli has the appearance of the Glock of shotguns, but has a feel and function of an AK, functional, not very aesthetically pleasing, with a feeling of "plastic", in more ways than just the material. Good pump shotgun, just not "comfortable". My son loves it, though. In the end, I have 2 goto scatterguns, both Mossbergs: 500 and 5500, pump and auto, respectively. For over 30 years, the 5500 is, was, and probably will be the favorite of the lot. It's had 100,000 rounds through it, with minimal upkeep and it gets stripped and cleaned every few years, whether it needs it or not. Maintenance has been no more than recoil buffers every 10K rounds or so, and occasional gas seal O-ring, and a broken safety button (just the plastic part, replaced with aluminum). I also have a 24" slug barrel for it, and it shoots everything from light shot to heavy magnum slugs. About the 500, then as now (later models), the same argument still comes up: single vs. double action bars. Mine's always been reliable, and I've never heard of one failure due to it. Non-issue, as far as I'm concerned. Saiga and Ithaca have shown to be too problematic with continued use. I haven't owned either, but shoot with several folks who do. I've repaired and adjusted more of them than any other. Nothing more than eye candy and trade material, as far as I'm concerned. Some folks swear by them, but bring them to me for repair. In the end, quality, reliability and value considered, the Mossbergs win, hands down. Jury's still out on Benelli, and it may prove reliable, but the others I have got decades of a head start.
Quote from: sqlbullet on December 04 2012 07:47:24 AM MST
Redline, there was a whole group of people that were taught to apply backward pressure on the pump during firing to speed the cycling of the action. I remember some guys where I grew up telling me this. Never seems like a good idea to me, but there are people who do it.
I'll echo this, and add it's still taught during tactical training. If doing this causes problems with a shotgun, it's broke. The Benelli I have doesn't seem to have an issue with it.
Winchester makes an SXP which is oddly similar to the Benelli Nova. It also has a rotating bolt...
I had to make some adujustments with my first Saiga,made in 2010.Would not cycle,had feed issues.Took gas block off,only 3 gas holes.Drill press to work,4th hole in,slightly enlarged others,nothing over the top,runs fine.Target loads,Wal Mart packs,no problems.put in a lighter recoil spring,100%.2008 model all stock,runs 100%,no adjustments.
Off to check these other ones out. Concentration is on the action, features and build quality.
The local gun shop didn't really have much. Went to Dick's and got most answers needed.
Benelli has bad controls for a lefty. Felt like Tupperware.
870 also had bad controls but good action
Mossberg had lefty friendly controls and felt decent
BPS is in the running with bottom ejection and lefty controls
Took a bunch of digging to find a video with the 50126 in it. Looks good in 480P.
For pacapcop:
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=89522
This is my local forum and I was shocked to find a thread in there on your suggestion. I'm reading through it now but have a look-see.
Thanks for link.One thing appears from all the chatter,it cycles and eats whats put into it.
Quote from: pacapcop on December 06 2012 06:25:05 AM MST
Thanks for link.One thing appears from all the chatter,it cycles and eats whats put into it.
I too, read the thread (all of it, painfully), and went away with the same impression. Most of the responses were attacking the messenger. I thought the Linberty guy was only trying to answer questions about the weapon, and not, necessarily, pitching a product. He was polite and offered information as factual as he could, reasonably. All of the positive responses were by the only shooters who had actually ever placed hands on a Linberty. I've never, but for the price, I might. I have "disposable" guns (Saturday night specials), and don't expect more from them than I paid/traded for them. They all function satisfactorily, and are probably the better bargains of any in my collection. If you pay $300 for a new shotgun, and it works, it's already paid for itself. Fit and finish are secondary. If you insist on Beretta or Browning (or insert your brand name) competition quality, pay the price. No different than the Glock naysayers on the GT forums.... The majority of them have never had one in their hand outside the gun shop. You just can't compare a $500 Glock with a $2K Ed Brown. When your EB fails and your Glock doesn't, all you'll hear is excuses (it certainly isn't EB's fault, ever). If a Glock fails, which is really rare by comparison, all of their products are "Tupperware junk", according to some. Toyotas last longer and are more efficient than Jaguars (which isn't really saying much, IMO).
Bud's is poor at advertising. They did a couple of videos on different models and I watched them all. Just no video on the Walnut Semi!
I agree about the attacks. It happens everywhere for some reason! He left his contact info so maybe I should drop him a note? See if I can get some actual pictures of the unit and info on field stripping it and parts availability. My other concern is whether you could get additional barrels for it should you want to use it for Deer and HD.
If you gave away 20 dollars on the internet for 10 dollars, 30% would bitch about the exchange rate.
I know. Sometimes a slight gamble pays off if you stick your neck out there a little. For what I gave for my Witness guns they are a Diamond in the rough. I always have liked trying something off the wall!
Many of Massey-Fergusens (sp?) tractors are made in Turkey....I'd think they could make a shotgun. I bought a short barrel 20 ga 870 awhile back for a little over 300.00. Nothing special about it .... just wanted one around the house. Shot a couple of snakes with it and leave it in a corner of the bedroom. Works well enough for my purposes.
http://www.linberta.com/sa01lw.php
Those pictures help sell me with the reviews I found at the bottom of Bud's. It has a red fiber front which I love my fiber sights. Also the butt pad and what was stated about shooting it a ton with zero effects in the review. The way the Walnut is notched I can see how that would be better than a straight up and down butt pad. Also just look at that Walnut! Bud's pictures sucks and they didn't point out what the reviewers did. Hope to have it here next week... plus 100% money back if not satisfied.
Pretty.....I'd call that highly figured wood, I can see why the guy in the other link might be disappointed. ;D Looks like some of the old Brownings. But I make no claim to knowing anything finer shotguns.
I'm pretty excited to get this thing and see what it's made of!
Look forward too.I'm intrested in the Walnut semi.
If that thing shoots half as good as it looks, it'll be a winner. And I agree about the butt/pad. The receiver is notched for optics, so it's a fair bet fur hunting barrels exist, or will. Damn! Now I'm interested! I haven't had a new scattergun in decades.
I'm impressed. At that price it's worth giving it a whirl. Worst case scenario I'ld think you could easily dump it for what you paid.
(http://www.linberta.com/resources/01L.jpg)
Bud's site is what's screwing up this line for this Company IMO. The pictures flat out suck on their but not their own site. If that Walnut looks that good in person with all the good piece yea. It has many options I like and the but pad just makes practical sense how that would work. The two reviews say a bunch about what's there. Me personally when I go shoot anything it isn't 5-10 shots. Usually when I even shoot my Mosin it's 50-100 rounds per visit. Having owned a 12 gauge in the past I know how they can put a hurt on the should over a long session.
The barrel is black chromed. Better or worse than bluing?
Properly done black chrome is one of the best black finishes.
That's good to know. I contacted Linberta today and got a response from Matt in less than a minute.
No rifled barrel yet but they are working on it.
Looks like it should be here tomorrow. If it looks and seems okay I will bring it home and take some pictures.
Good deal. I hope you get one with the nice wood, like in the photo.
That looks pretty nice, but tell you what - if you're at all interested in having several different barrels to change the configuration of your shotgun, you still can't beat a Rem 870 or Mossberg 500. Barrels are available for the B. Nova too, but they cost twice as much.
Personally I use a couple Mossbergs (well, one's a Maverick, same thing) that are about 15 years old. One has many thousands of rounds through it, from weekly use in our trap and skeet club, both have been totally reliable.
After cleaning it up
(http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/Intercooler2/20121212_182256-1.jpg)
(http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/Intercooler2/20121212_182305-1.jpg)
Hey, nice wood. Looks good from the photos. I never saw the price.
$439.00 + free shipping.
Congrats! Interesting let us know how it works! 8)
It's really light and points good. Love the fiber front sight and the construction seems very solid. Even the butt pad is really neat and I think some of the other shotguns out there have a plastic follower and plastic magazine tube cap. This one has aluminum for both. As a matter of fact I can't find any plastic in it!
Thanks IC. I look forward to the continued reports. How long before you send some lead downrange?
If everything goes okay with the weather Saturday. Any suggestions on load to make it go Uhhhhh on?
I dunno. It's a shotgun. Maybe a variety of bird/small game shot and 00 buck, with 10 yd. patterns. A longer distant slug (accuracy) may be helpful. I'm mostly interested in feel and function.
Which one did you get Intercooler?I use the euro shells,Rio Royal in my Saiga stick mags.Work flawlessly.throw in some target loads(Remington).SGAmmo has some good deals.
Walnut semi. I'm going tonight to get a selection of starter shells. What's a good bulk load to get? I will work my connection :D
For common shotshells, Walmart is as good a place as any around here. A box of 100 rds. is about 20 bucks. I can save on mail order shotshells, but it takes lots of 5,000 to break even. I haven't handloaded target loads in years. It's cheaper to just buy them at Walmart, all things considered.
Just for curiosity, how many rds. will the mag hold w/o the plug? 2-3/4" and 3"?
Did the wood come like that or did you oil it up? It def looks like the advertised picture from what I can tell, looks really good!
The wood has a Satin look. However... the entire shotgun had a weird blackish film on it that really stained my hands up. I would wear gloves if I ever did another. I removed the film in cleaning and applied some oil. This cell phone camera sucks so it didn't do the best on the pictures.
I have a white ring cloth I could polish the wood up with easily but debating if I want to do that or not. Could make it slick, especially with a little moisture. Headed up now to pull get some trigger pulls for people wanting to know. They also want drop measurements, so someone sent me a video on how to do them.
This shotgun is Field sighting. About 2 1/2" at the Comb and 1 3/8"-1 1/2" at the end.
Trigger pull doing it 12 times was about 8.5lbs every pull to break.
Oh... DM1906
Linberta said 5+1 with the plug out.
Quote from: Intercooler on December 13 2012 06:05:35 PM MST
Oh... DM1906
Linberta said 5+1 with the plug out.
Thanks. Looking forward to the range report. 8.5# pull for a field gun is not bad. More than mine, but I don't know what mine were before they were "massaged" (5#, currently, all of them). Consistency is much more important than actual.
Back from testing it. At the range were two other shooters beside me shooting clays and they struck up general chat. I told them I'm trying out a new shotgun and it peeked their interest. They asked what ammo I was shooting, so I showed them the boxes:
Federal 3 Dram, 1 1/8 oz shot, 7 1/2 shot.
They said that's low brass and you have a Semi. It won't run without hanging up and they showed me how they anticipated the slide would not fully return or eject the brass with their own shotguns. They showed me high brass and said Semi guys shoot that (one had a semi and one a pump). Loaded it up and it just ripped through them zero issues. Loaded up again and zero issues. So I called them over and said it seems to be working fine in this one... they said I see that! I kept going and they left... finished up my 100 rounds with zero issues. Easy to point and shoot and light as can be.
I can't find a thing I don't like about this shotgun but one thing. The spring for the loading gate/slide release is stiff. Hopefully it will loosen up some but it sure seemed accurate to boot. Very happy!
Im all smles with your range report.It will digest what you will put in,regardless of loads.Awsome report.the spring will loosen up.
I learned something over this purchase. Don't talk shotguns to skeet/trap/clay guys or they will tell you it takes a $2000 plus shotgun to hunt Rabbits or any other huntable game.
This morning was cleaning time.
Very easy to clean. I didn't do a full take-down because really the only dirty part was the barrel. It seems powder and residue aren't really sticking to the aluminum receiver and/or fall out through the slots in the loading port. I used Break-Free on the barrel followed by a wipe of all parts with Ballistol. I don't know in most shotguns if the bolt face usually gets crudded up but this one looked like new and only needed a wipe.
Next 100 rounds I will take some pictures right after shooting before doing the cleaning.
Quote from: Intercooler on December 14 2012 08:34:57 PM MST
I learned something over this purchase. Don't talk shotguns to skeet/trap/clay guys or they will tell you it takes a $2000 plus shotgun to hunt Rabbits or any other huntable game.
No doubt! I repair a lot of $2000 shotguns, and a few 5-digit comp shooters. For the cost of some of the repairs, you can buy a nice shotgun that does just as well on the range, and spends less time in the shop. Of course, I'm wrong.....just ask them.
Much obliged for the reports. Sounds like this thing really needs a closer look.
Also, I shoot mostly low-base bird/trap shot in all my autos. Never a problem (except for the occasional worn out piston O-ring). If I had a semi that was worth anything, it probably wouldn't work with them, either. If it works, and looks good doing it, it's a win-win, at any price.
I guess I can understand buying a $5000 shotgun if you are winning money with it. About the only real sense in owning something that crazy.
Quote from: Intercooler on December 15 2012 08:10:31 PM MST
I guess I can understand buying a $5000 shotgun if you are winning money with it. About the only real sense in owning something that crazy.
Problem is, if they are winning money with them (successful), they don't pay for them. They are sponsored, and also the reason they wear all that branded garb. If you are good at it, you don't have to shoot a "cheap' gun for long. Unsuccessful competitors use what the pro's use, and pay for it, because that's what "wins". It isn't the tool, it's the craftsman, but they don't get it. If they were winning, they couldn't tell you what their guns were worth.
Bill Dance never paid for a Ranger boat, or any of his gear. Tiger doesn't pay for clubs, shoes or balls.
They sent me the 30 round belt and Linberta sent me an extra firing pin and spring.
It's on my list for 2013.
My Brother wants one and now people are asking me about my review. I can't complain other than it's not made here.
I have a few shotguns, mostly for Trap shooting.
One I bet few have seen or owned is this one.
It is a Greener Trap Gun. A martini action 12g.
I now own two of these.
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Interesting piece. I had definitely never seen one before. Thanks for the pic.
That's a very interesting shotgun, Congrats!
But I will continue to patrol with my 870 Wingmaster stuffed with these...
(http://i49.tinypic.com/25tubur.jpg)