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10mm Ammuntion => Reloading 10mm ammo => Topic started by: Ridgerunner665 on July 08 2017 06:29:38 PM MDT

Title: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 08 2017 06:29:38 PM MDT
Bullet switch... https://cuttingedgebullets.com/40-190gr-handgun-solid

Going to be trying these high dollar bullets, 190 grain Cutting Edge solid (copper)...hoping I can get them to around 1,350 fps from the 7" barrel.

They are a long bullet at .725", so the load will likely be compressed using #9, maybe not though...just have to see.

If compression becomes an issue, I'll switch to magnum primers.

Why these bullets?
I tried cast bullets (Beartooth and my own castings) once before in 45-70 and had barrel leading issues with everything but reduced loads, just didn't come away with a positive attitude towards lead bullets even though I had good instruction on it (Veral Smith, Ranch Dog, and some others...if you know those guys)...sold my casting equipment, almost all my lead, and everything...won't be doing any more casting.

But, these copper bullets have a good meplat on them, should behave just like a lead slug as far as terminal performance goes....CEB claims they went over 50" in clear ballistics gel.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: The_Shadow on July 08 2017 08:21:20 PM MDT
Dang!
.40 190gr Handgun Solid $43.68  OUCH!  :o  ???
SKU HGS 40 190  50ct

Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 08 2017 08:30:00 PM MDT
Yeah, won't be shooting many of them...just using them for hunting...after sight in and load development, maybe 20 rounds per year.

It doesn't sound so bad that way  :)
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: sep on July 09 2017 10:10:07 AM MDT
Interesting. The cost doesn't deter me as I am use to paying close to $50.00 a box for Barnes TTSX rifle bullets which I handload. The Cutting Edge web site says you can push these bullets to the same velocity as other 190 grain bullets. It looks like they have a pretty good sized meplat too. Aside from some additional case chamfering being needed (according to their web site) it looks like this might be a good alternative to hardcast lead.

Please post your results on here. I'd be interested to see how they do in your gun(s). I too prefer hard cast for woods defense for bears but don't like dealing with lead removal in my 10mms and particularly my revolvers. This might be a good solution. A simple application of Patchout/Wipeout may be all that is needed to remove any copper fouling...just like my rifles shooting Barnes bullets.

           
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 11 2017 05:36:09 PM MDT
I've been emailing back and forth with Cutting Edge Bullets, concerning load data... They gave me some QuickLoad data that I had already come up with myself, calibrated to their bullet specs.

That's all they had, but they are adamant that any reputable load data for a similar weight bullet can be used as long as the bullet is seated per the loading instructions... That is .266" sticking out of the case, which should work fine in most any pistol with proper length brass.... It will come out to 1.25" to 1.26" overall length.

The bullets arrived today but it will be a little bit before I get there to do anything with them.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Texashogman on July 12 2017 11:00:01 AM MDT
I have found that in reloading rifle calibers with the CE and other similar solid bullets with driving bands that often time they like a slightly faster powder than what you would normally use----I also find that you cant push them as fast as lead core bullets as they seem to spike pressures esrlier and they seem to loose a little accuracy at top end

I am interested to see how a pistol CE bullet relates to the info I have found with similar type rifle bullets ---I will be waiting/watching for updates as you progress as this interests me too
I'm guessing this is going to be slower than a like lead bullet.


anyone try out their 125grain raptors?
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/400-120gr-handgun-raptor
looks like they have a 150 raptor also
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/400-150gr-handgun-raptor
(This is a long bullet for a 150 grain)
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 12 2017 05:30:05 PM MDT
13.5 grains of AA #9 is all that will fit under the CEB 190 solid... And that is very compressed, but it only produced 1,275 fps.

This bullet just doesn't have much bearing surface to get the pressure up with the slower powder, I'm gonna see what I can get out of Power Pistol next...

I have a recovered bullet that went into slate rock at 1,275 fps, it could just about be loaded and fired again...
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Benchrst on July 12 2017 05:36:25 PM MDT
A 190 solid @ 1,275 is no slouch!

Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 12 2017 06:23:57 PM MDT
Quote from: Benchrst on July 12 2017 05:36:25 PM MDT
A 190 solid @ 1,275 is no slouch!

No its not, but I'm hoping for more... :)

I typo'd up there, it was supposed to be 13.5 grains, I fixed it.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 12 2017 06:24:50 PM MDT
Look at the bearing surface...or the lack thereof...no copper fouling at all so far.

(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/Ridgerunner665/DSC_0228.jpg1_zpsl4yr7cqc.jpg) (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/Ridgerunner665/media/DSC_0228.jpg1_zpsl4yr7cqc.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 12 2017 06:36:29 PM MDT
The meplat is right at 31 caliber by the way....this bullet pretty well qualifies as an LBT style bullet, that meplat being about 78% of caliber.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Benchrst on July 12 2017 09:06:31 PM MDT
Quote from: Ridgerunner665 on July 12 2017 06:23:57 PM MDT
Quote from: Benchrst on July 12 2017 05:36:25 PM MDT
A 190 solid @ 1,275 is no slouch!

No its not, but I'm hoping for more... :)

I typo'd up there, it was supposed to be 13.5 grains, I fixed it.

Kinda wondered about that, I was able to get 13.6 behind a 200gr XTP @ 1.255. Of course that's solid vs lead, RNFP vs JHP.

Following where you end up with this :)

Think 800X will end up in the mix?
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 12 2017 09:29:11 PM MDT
Quote from: Benchrst on July 12 2017 09:06:31 PM MDT
Quote from: Ridgerunner665 on July 12 2017 06:23:57 PM MDT
Quote from: Benchrst on July 12 2017 05:36:25 PM MDT
A 190 solid @ 1,275 is no slouch!

No its not, but I'm hoping for more... :)

I typo'd up there, it was supposed to be 13.5 grains, I fixed it.

Kinda wondered about that, I was able to get 13.6 behind a 200gr XTP @ 1.255. Of course that's solid vs lead, RNFP vs JHP.

Following where you end up with this :)

Think 800X will end up in the mix?
Maybe... But I'm hoping I can get there without buying more powders.

If Longshot behaved in a manner that fit where it is on a burn rate chart it would be great... But it don't.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Texashogman on July 13 2017 08:50:51 AM MDT
the reason they use the driving bands in the solids is so that the speeds can be a bit higher and you can load them with like weight re-load data---if they added more bearing surface then you would spike your pressures early while trying to "engrave" the rifling (due to the harder core) so they couldn't be driven as fast --- all forms of monolithic copper bullets use some sort of "driving bands" in one way or another---if you can find a "wave style" driving band solid, they should be able to be driven just a bit faster than the "cut/square face" driving bands bullets --- each company retains their own patents on the designs of the bands though

Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ten Ten on July 20 2017 07:10:11 PM MDT
ridgerunner whats the COL with 13.5grs of A#9 ?

I just got theses in the mail today ;)
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ten Ten on July 20 2017 07:30:07 PM MDT
(http://i.imgur.com/yO3VOq9h.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/LsWP6mwh.jpg)
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 20 2017 08:01:44 PM MDT
Let the Seal Tite band tell you that... Seat it with the band snugged up to the case mouth.

With my brass at .988" - .989", the band seated as described above, leaving the bullet sticking out .266" as CEB recommends.... The overall length comes to ~1.255".

If you haven't already, read the instructions on CEB's website.... The instructions on seating and case mouth chamfering are very important.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 20 2017 08:05:00 PM MDT
13.5 grains will be very compressed, they'll likely settle around 1.26" maybe 1.265".... They fed fine for me at that length though.

That is with new Starline brass, other makes may vary a little in one direction or the other.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ten Ten on July 20 2017 08:06:15 PM MDT
Ridge, I havent had a chance to look at CEB's website, but will soon and before I reload...thanks for the info..;)
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 20 2017 08:09:17 PM MDT
You're welcome, below is the link.

https://cuttingedgebullets.com/reloading-instructions
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 20 2017 08:12:56 PM MDT
I'm on my way home for a couple of days so I'll have some Power Pistol and Longshot data this weekend.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 21 2017 09:12:29 PM MDT
Picture to illustrate where to place the SealTite band...

(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/Ridgerunner665/DSC_0239_zpsb9ijulb8.jpg) (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/Ridgerunner665/media/DSC_0239_zpsb9ijulb8.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: The_Shadow on July 21 2017 09:21:10 PM MDT
Nice!  Interested in the results!  :D
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ten Ten on July 22 2017 04:42:26 PM MDT
Ridge, thanks for the pic, you must have read my mind, I was going to ask for one ;)...Im gunna load some up but wont be able to get out and shoot for awhile

Looking forward to your results as well....
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 22 2017 05:03:01 PM MDT
8.4 grains of Power Pistol = 1,177 fps

8.4 grains of Longshot = 1,178 fps.

No surprise there, that they matched.... Every load I've tried with those powders is grain for grain, fps for fps.

I have a few rounds loaded with 8.9 grains of Longshot to test next.

Summary.... Using any other 190 grain load data with these bullets is safe....VERY safe.... Like about 25,000 psi with max listed load safe... I've used Lee and Alliant data.


Remember, I'm using a 7" barrel.

After those 8.9 grain loads mentioned above, I fully expect to have to venture into unknown territory with these bullets, they don't build pressure like other bullets, I'm leaning towards using 180 grain data with them, carefully.

I'm measuring case head expansion, I figure thats the most reliable indicator of pressure I have at my disposal.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 23 2017 10:42:34 AM MDT
8.9 grains of Longshot = 1,243 fps.

Still no case head expansion, but based on the appearance of the cases I am just getting into the proper pressure for the powder to burn like its supposed to.

Primers say the same thing, they're looking like the primers on my 12.6 grains of AA9 with 200 XTP loads.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 23 2017 11:59:35 AM MDT
Up next.... 9.2 grains of Longshot.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 23 2017 12:46:19 PM MDT
9.2 grains of Longshot = 1,285 fps....a smile on the brass, and some case head expansion.

Looks like that's as far as Longshot will shoot.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 23 2017 12:57:36 PM MDT
Viht N105 maybe....
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 23 2017 01:21:16 PM MDT
I think before I buy a pound of powder, I'm gonna try AA #9 with magnum primers...

50 mag primers doesn't cost much to try.

So far, nothing has come close to the speed I got with #9... At least not without pressure signs.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: The_Shadow on July 23 2017 04:56:39 PM MDT
Those must be fairly long, being solid copper, even though they are not HP's.  What is the Total length on them?

The power bands help to reduce the friction but being long takes up powder space with increased pressures.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 23 2017 05:25:01 PM MDT
Length is .723"

Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 23 2017 05:29:25 PM MDT
9 grains of Longshot would likely be a safe max with this bullet in my barrel... And would be right around 1,265 fps.

9.2 grains was just getting into compression, not heavily compressed... But the bullet was sitting on the powder.

The smile I got at 9.2 is not a bad one in my opinion...But it is visible.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 23 2017 05:35:54 PM MDT
I still think they could get up to a little over 1,300 fps in the 7" barrel... If I can find the right powder burn speed.

#9 is a tad too slow... Ran out of room before I hit pressure, mag primers might make a difference.

Longshot and Power Pistol are a little too fast...
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 23 2017 05:39:07 PM MDT
I'm thinking 13.2 grains of #9 with a mag primer might be about as good as it gets with these.

Maybe 13.4 grains.... Just have to see if 13.4 will push the bullet back out sitting on the shelf.

13.2 is pretty compressed, 13.4 is even more compressed.


One thing is for certain.... Setback won't be an issue.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 23 2017 05:45:31 PM MDT
I would be interested in hearing the differences between CCI 300 and CCI 350 primers in 10mm.... In regards to velocity differences with the same powder charges.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ten Ten on July 23 2017 06:33:17 PM MDT
Great info ridge!!...thanks for the leg work and results ;)

Im going to start with A#9 since I have a lot of it with CCI 350 mag primers...If I can get 1200FPS out of 5 inch Barrel and good groups, Ill be happy
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 23 2017 06:42:41 PM MDT
Quote from: Ten Ten on July 23 2017 06:33:17 PM MDT
Great info ridge!!...thanks for the leg work and results ;)

Im going to start with A#9 since I have a lot of it with CCI 350 mag primers...If I can get 1200FPS out of 5 inch Barrel and good groups, Ill be happy

Now its your turn, I gotta go back to work tomorrow so it'll be a week or 3 before I get anything else done.

Let us know how it goes.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 23 2017 07:18:55 PM MDT
Looking over Benchrst's 10mm data, what I needed to know was right there staring at me the whole time... I just wasn't looking for it until now.

He shows a load with the same charge of #9 under a 200 grain XTP, but one with a CCI 300 and one with a CCI 350.

The magnum primer produced 116 fps more than the standard primer.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: The_Shadow on July 23 2017 09:48:13 PM MDT
Thanks for the Bullet length info...
QuoteLength is .723"
Longer than the 200 gr JHP's which are about 0.6800".
Did you try the Magnum Primer with the Longshot Loads?  The extra boost with a lees powder charge could bring about some results.  However your results are still very noble!   8)
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 24 2017 05:37:33 AM MDT
No... I don't have any magnum primers yet.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on July 31 2017 12:48:08 PM MDT
Got a brick of CCI 350's yesterday, loaded 3 rounds with 12.4 grains of #9 for starters.

May get to shoot them this weekend.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: my_old_glock on July 31 2017 10:05:27 PM MDT
Quote from: Ridgerunner665 on July 12 2017 06:36:29 PM MDT
....this bullet pretty well qualifies as an LBT style bullet, ...

Lesbian Bisexual Tranny?


I am from the San Francisco area, and when I see those letters it means a certain thing.

.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on August 04 2017 11:19:14 AM MDT
I'm am from the mountains of east Tennessee...

Around here LGBT means liquor, guns, bacon, and titties.

LBT means Lead Bullets Technology... https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.lbtmolds.com/&ved=0ahUKEwjT8dH2ir7VAhVB04MKHaBKDFsQFgglMAA&usg=AFQjCNHW6-M1i5Jbg8R5nZEgUPbG8OcnAQ
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on August 06 2017 05:59:36 PM MDT
I seem to hit a wall at about 1,275 fps no matter what powder and primer combo I use...
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ten Ten on August 08 2017 07:16:43 PM MDT
Quote from: Ridgerunner665 on August 06 2017 05:59:36 PM MDT
I seem to hit a wall at about 1,275 fps no matter what powder and primer combo I use...

That sounds great for a long copper 190gr. ;)
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on January 28 2018 07:30:06 PM MST
I'm gonna pick back up testing these bullets.... As soon as I get a jug of blue dot.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Alasken on February 20 2018 12:02:18 AM MST
Gentleman-

I worked for CEB when we developed these bullets, and was in charge of all reloading, expansion, penetration, and accuracy testing. I also recommended all bullet weights for every caliber, including the solids.

Testing with the 10mm was very impressive. Shooting into Clear Ballistic Gel, I received the following results, from a stock Glock 20:

1.  120 HG Raptor- blades went 6+ inches,  and the Blunt Trauma Base, around 16". These are meant for personal defense.

2.  155 Barnes X- penetrated around 18" if I remember correctly.

3.  150 HG Raptor- blades same distance as the 120 Raptor, but the base did 24", as they are meant for hunting.

4.  200 Hornady XTP at full power, expanded nicely, and penetrated 20"

5.  The 190 HG Solid...Was loaded to around 1,050 fps. To be sure, I lined up three, 17" blocks of  Clear Ballistic Gel,  AND placed a foot-long section of 2x6 pine, flat against the far end of the last gel block. This was all I could fit on top of the concrete bench I was shooting across. The 2x6 barely stayed in place, held mostly by the "stickyness" of the gel.

At the shot, the 2x6 fell off the end, because even the last 17" block "jiggled" at the shot. So I walk past the 3 blocks, stepping to the far side of the table to pick up the fallen 2x6...and found it to have a quarter-inch deep dent in the face, mirroring the nose of the bullet, which was against the last gel block!

Stunned, I turned to see at my face level, at the exit end of that last block, and saw the 190 HG Solid was sticking half-way out the block!!! If it hadn't been for the 2x6, it would have exited 51" of Clear Ballistic Gel!

And remember, this was at only 1,050 fps...so no need to worry about thinking you need to get too much more speed with this bullet!

And yes, because they are longer than conventional bullets, you need to use a lighter charge weight than you would with cast or jacketed bullets, AND faster burning powders, to be abke to get enough propellant energy in the case.

Best regards, Alasken
PS- when the owner was going whitetail hunting, I loaded up 150 gr. HG Raptors to almost 2,000 fps in his Super 14 Contender .44 Magnum, using Blue Dot powder.  At 104 yards, all four blades made it to the far side on a broadside shot, and the Blunt Trauma Base exited!  They penetrate all out of proportion to their "less than traditional" weights.  Good shooting!
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on February 20 2018 06:37:03 AM MST
Thank you sir for that info!
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on February 20 2018 06:42:08 AM MST
What did the permanent cavity look like for the 190 solid at that speed?
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Alasken on February 23 2018 07:03:26 PM MST
Pretty much like the cavity of other  flat point, non-expanding bullet. That was not the focus of the test, but to compare depth of penetration. A customer from California had called, and complained about 155 X-bullet penetration performance in Lead-free, CA, so I tested the listed bullets for comparison.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on March 30 2018 12:31:45 PM MDT
Got some Blue Dot finally... Testing with the 190 CEB solid to resume shortly.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: gjarcher on March 30 2018 02:31:41 PM MDT
Using a 7" KKM 10mm Match barrel in the G40, I got 1326 fps at 10' through the Pro Chrono with the 190gr CEB Solid, which equates to about 1336 fps ~ 1340 fps mv, depending on which muzzle velocity calculator is used.

Starline Brass (Unfired) sized through RCBS die .988"
CCI 300 Primer
8.9 gr Power Pistol
Taper Crimp .419"
190gr CEB Solid @ 1.254" COAL

At 8.9 gr PP, the CCI primer showed more than the usual flattening, but no case head breech face/ejector marks, or primer piercing/sooting. Fired case head measured .426", max case bulge .428".

After working up a max load with Power Pistol, I read that Power Pistol may have a blinding flash in low light ... not so good for a Bear Defense load. I'll have to give this a try at dark on my local pistol range. If the flash is too much, next try is BE-86 flash suppressed version of Power Pistol.

After reading Alasken's comments on penetration, a bit lower muzzle velocity, which is what I expect with BE-86, might be a good trade-off to get less flash.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on March 30 2018 04:25:45 PM MDT
Loaded 3 at 8.5 grains of Blue Dot just to see where I'm at in the load data, since I'm using the mag primers.

They chrono'd 1,075 fps from the 7 inch barrel and sooted the case mouth a bit, indicating a very mild load and incomplete powder burn.

Gonna try 9 grains next...
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on March 31 2018 12:46:50 PM MDT
Blue Dot spiked pretty good at 9.5 grains (1,170 fps)... No smiles, but VERY flat primers... Spooked me.

I stopped there and backed up and retested  Longshot with the new chrono and the 20# spring...

9 grains of Longshot, CCI 300 primer...1,286 fps at 25 feet... That is 1,305 fps at the muzzle and no signs of pressure anywhere. Primers look good, brass looks good, case head measurements are all within spec.

I am gonna try 9.2 grains again, just to double check to see if I still get the slight smiles with the 20 pound spring....
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: The_Shadow on March 31 2018 05:00:59 PM MDT
Yes Longshot really get things moving along!  Thanks & Good luck!
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on April 01 2018 02:06:41 PM MDT
9.2 grains of Longshot retested...

1,309 fps at the muzzle and put a distinct smile on 2 of the 3 rounds fired.

Question for those of you with more experience using Longshot than me... Considering 9.2 grains as a little too hot, how far would you back down to call it a safe load?
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on April 01 2018 02:11:38 PM MDT
(https://s14.postimg.org/o6j3h3v2p/IMG_20180401_161036.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/mrhisdtzh/)
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: The_Shadow on April 01 2018 02:19:38 PM MDT
8.8 grains of Longshot should be a good load...BTW what is the total length of that Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid bullet?

The solid copper being lighter than lead is usually longer by weight...therefore that length occupies case capacity and that's where the pressure is spiking upwards.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on April 01 2018 02:26:11 PM MDT
The bullet is .723" long
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: The_Shadow on April 01 2018 02:31:52 PM MDT
The 200 grain XTP is only 0.677" - 0.6810"
The Barnes 155 is 0.732"
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on April 01 2018 02:34:26 PM MDT
8.8 takes me all the way back down to 1,275 fps...

Not really what I had in mind...I guess maybe I might just have to stick with jacketed bullets.

I'm gonna work with 9 grains a little more before calling it done though, feel it out a bit and see if I see any signs of pressure spikes at that charge.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on April 01 2018 02:35:30 PM MDT
Quote from: The_Shadow on April 01 2018 02:31:52 PM MDT
The 200 grain XTP is only 0.677" - 0.6810"
The Barnes 155 is 0.732"
And the 200 grain Nosler is .675"...
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on April 01 2018 02:37:12 PM MDT
Sux....

I really wanted to like the CEB bullet.

I may have 146 or so of them for sale soon, if anybody is interested...
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: The_Shadow on April 01 2018 02:48:27 PM MDT
Some of the Solids have power bans that help to relieve the frictional values somewhat.  The balance is going to be touchy but still a 190 grain moving at 1275 fps is still a great performance.  Then you could just load them at the upper limits with the thoughts of not reusing the brass...
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on April 01 2018 03:12:59 PM MDT
Yeah...I have no interest in reusing this brass anyway.

This gun isn't a range toy for me, so no high volume shooting.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on April 01 2018 03:13:38 PM MDT
 The CEB is banded, not a lot of bearing surface on it at all...
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on April 01 2018 03:44:57 PM MDT
I figured somebody would have made a 200 grain bonded bullet by now... Designed for hunting (not the Gold Dot).

I got irritated at Hornady because they didn't have XTP's when I needed them... But when I looked just now there were in stock... I ordered 1,000 so that should last me a few years.

If anybody wants the 190 grain Cutting Edge Bullets.... I'll sell the 146 I have left for $100 shipped... That is a lot cheaper than they sell for.

2 unopened boxes, and one box with 4 bullets used out of it.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: 5pins on April 02 2018 04:32:19 PM MDT
I just orders some of these bullets to load in the 10mm and .45 ACP. I'm going to shoot them in some Clear Gel and see how deep they go. I will probably use Longshot because thats what I have that would be the most suitable.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ramjet on April 02 2018 07:23:15 PM MDT
I have become a fan of Power Pistol with my 7" KKM in my Glock model 40 MOS. Good velocities with my Gas Checked 200 WFN. I actuall crimp a .416 Gas Check on these bullets. I have no leading even from my Kriss or my 18" G2 carbine barrel.

Did you try Power Pistol ???
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on April 02 2018 07:50:05 PM MDT
Quote from: Ramjet on April 02 2018 07:23:15 PM MDT
I have become a fan of Power Pistol with my 7" KKM in my Glock model 40 MOS. Good velocities with my Gas Checked 200 WFN. I actuall crimp a .416 Gas Check on these bullets. I have no leading even from my Kriss or my 18" G2 carbine barrel.

Did you try Power Pistol ???
Yes... It performed exactly like Longshot.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: 5pins on April 09 2018 11:44:43 AM MDT
I shot some of these 190gr CE bullets today and had disappointing result.  I used a starting load of 8.5gr of Longshot and it was showing signs of pressure, slightly flat primers and smiley faces. The average velocity was 1135fps with a high of 1151fps and a low of 1126fps. This is through a Delta Elite. I'm either going to have to find another powder or drop the charge. One thing I noticed was that my firing pin hits were a little off center so I may have other issues going on. 
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: The_Shadow on April 09 2018 12:27:37 PM MDT
5pins, there are several things to consider, CE 190's are long, those velocities are not bad for that loading.  Therefore longer COL's and slightly less powder 8.2 - 8.4 can help lower pressures.  The COL's can be checked as they're stacking inside the magazine.  Seat them without any crimp when testing magazine stacking fit, this is so you can come back and adjust if necessary.
Originally 45ACP FMJ Ball was loaded to 1.2700" but when you start using flat point, Truncated Cone or Hollow Point those COL's will be shorter to allow feeding without binding inside the magazine. 10mm ammo when first came to market were TC and HP designs and 1.2600" was considered max for this reason.  However some firearms can use slightly longer COL's to help keep pressures a little lower.

Then you also need to consider the chamber support of your firearm, being a 1911 Colt DE, this can be problematic with respect to upper end loading.  These chambers have shown lack of support for as much as 200 degrees around the chamber and not just the feed ramps.

Some brass is softer than others and this can contribute to expanding and SMILES with lack of support.  New Starline brass is softer because it is a handloaders brass that could be reused several times before work hardening makes it less malleable and stiffer.

If you don't mind sacrificing the brass with these bullets load them like you are doing.  If it were me I'd load them hand weighed with 8.4 grains of Long Shot at 1.2620" COL. and be satisfied with the results and possibly having to toss the brass afterwards...
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on April 09 2018 01:16:29 PM MDT
Yeah, 1,130 - 1,150 fps with those bullets from a 5 inch barrel is moving right along.

I'd back them down to 1,100 fps and call it good if the accuracy was there.

But I understand wanting more speed, I did too... Just couldn't quite get there with any powder I tried, not even from a 7 inch barrel.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: 5pins on April 09 2018 04:13:38 PM MDT
Perhaps I'm expecting too much from them in this gun. I'm going to drop the down to 8.3gr and see how that works. I'm using new Starline brass.
I'm also trying this bullet in the 200gr .45 and I need to up the charge to 8.3gr also so that should make loading some up tonight easier. 
I did pick up some Blue Dot last week and maybe I'll give it a try later but for now, I will just try some more of the Longshot tomorrow.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Ridgerunner665 on April 09 2018 04:16:10 PM MDT
I tried Blue Dot, it spiked way too early...
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: 5pins on April 10 2018 06:57:05 AM MDT
I reduced the load to 8.3gr of longshot but got an increase of velocity to an average 1160fps. I'm still showing signs of over pressure, maybe even more.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: 5pins on April 11 2018 07:10:05 AM MDT
I dropped down to 8.0gr and got an average velocity of 1102fps a high of 1121fps and a low of 1077fps. Still showing signs of pressure but not as much. I will load two more up with this load to shoot in gel but that will be it until some different brass and maybe a new recoil spring.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: 5pins on April 13 2018 07:36:33 AM MDT
Had a chance to shoot them through the gel this morning. Very impressive results.
 
The first round had a velocity of 1104fps and penetrated the first three 16 inch blocks and stopped two and a quarter inches into the forth for a total penetration of 50.25 inches of gel. The second bullet hit the gel at 1118fps and had a total penetration of 52.75 inches. The brass showed very little signs of pressure, so I would consider this load very safe for a Colt DE. I will probably take the bullets I have left and load them with this load.

(http://i.imgur.com/qzRqVExm.jpg?1) (https://imgur.com/qzRqVEx)

I also shot the CE 200gr in .45ACP. here is the link if you want to read about how they did. 

http://10mm-firearms.com/10mm-hunting/230-grain-45-vs-200-grain-10mm-penetration-and-for-bears-hogs/msg74226/#new (http://10mm-firearms.com/10mm-hunting/230-grain-45-vs-200-grain-10mm-penetration-and-for-bears-hogs/msg74226/#new)

 
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: wjdell on June 03 2019 12:50:59 AM MDT
Quote from: Ridgerunner665 on April 09 2018 01:16:29 PM MDT
Yeah, 1,130 - 1,150 fps with those bullets from a 5 inch barrel is moving right along.

I'd back them down to 1,100 fps and call it good if the accuracy was there.

But I understand wanting more speed, I did too... Just couldn't quite get there with any powder I tried, not even from a 7 inch barrel.

Ridgerunner - have you done anymore with the 190. i am going to get a box to load this year. I have quite a few powders but was wondering if you tried Longshot and VV3N38. Usually all I load is mild for use at a range. My carry rounds are just a bit under max. But this bullet I was hoping to exceed 600 ft. lb. 650 would be great. I joined after reading allot of your post. I know this is old thread but if you get this any info is welcome.   
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: nhyrum on July 02 2019 08:54:26 AM MDT
I think I have a box of these bullets, or maybe their HP for my 10, I can't remember. But, I did load their 300 grain solid in my 454 casull. Shot through a Honda cylinder block. Looked almost like yours, but had a small dent on the front.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: choo2x on August 12 2019 11:32:35 PM MDT
I've been lurking through this site since I got my G20SF for pulldown information, etc. and it's been very helpful.  Because of the information, I was able to determine that Longshot was the best powder for reloading my 220 grain Ibejiheads in 10mm.

I have a StormLake 5.3" ported barrel installed in my G20SF.  When I examined the brass that was shot in the stock barrel, I determined that I didn't want to experiment with fast loads with the stock barrel.  My friend has a StormLake 4.6" barrel installed in his G20SF and I gain ~20 fps over his barrel, due to the extra length before the first port releases the gas.

We started experimenting with Longshot behind the 190 grain Cutting Edge bullet, but the speed maxed out at 1,082 fps once the amount of Longshot passed 7.7 grains.  8.0 grains and 8.5 grains of Longshot did nothing to add speed to the bullet, the bang was just louder.

Reading this thread, it seemed that we should try a powder with a speed between Longshot and 800-X to drive these Cutting Edge 190 grain bullets.  We had some CFE Pistol around, so we ran a ladder of 6.5, 7.0, 7.5 and 8.0 grains using Winchester LPP and new *-* brass.  All of the primers and brass looked the same, so we don't think we've hit the limit yet. 

The average speed we got through the 5.3" ported barrel with 8.0 grains of CFE Pistol was 1,190 fps.

We're going to try 8.2 and 8.4 grains of CFE Pistol the next time we have a chance to see if we can get the speed over 1,200 fps without flattening the primers.  I'll report back when we get a chance to test again.

Shelton

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Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: The_Shadow on August 13 2019 10:43:12 AM MDT
choo2x, Welcome to the forum and thanks for your range report.  I was looking at Buffalo Bore having these bullets in their ammo just the other day!  Haven't had a chance to see what's inside them yet!

Best regards and enjoy the forum!  :D
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: choo2x on August 13 2019 10:53:43 AM MDT
Thanks.  I'm looking forward to what you find during your pulldown.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: 5pins on August 15 2019 04:31:50 PM MDT
The bullet BB is using isn't the Cutting Edge bullet. It has a different ogive and is made by Lehigh. It looks interesting.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=571
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: Troll_Toes on September 08 2019 04:11:19 PM MDT
Is there any advantage of using these CE 190gr bullets over the 200 gr MBW WFN.
Title: Re: Cutting Edge 190 grain copper solid
Post by: The_Shadow on September 08 2019 06:23:33 PM MDT
Well some places have a band on lead bullets of any kind!  California is one of those states... :'(