I'm pretty new to this forum, nobody here knows me much so I'll preface this with this: I'm an old long range hunter, I was doing it 30 years before it was all the rage like it is now...started back in the mid 80's....but I've also bow hunted a lot.
I've been wondering about this lately...I know the common, and correct, answer is to not exceed my ability to hit where I aim.
But for this discussion I'd like to leave shooting ability out of the equation, lets just assume we can all hit a pie plate at 300 yards with a pistol...from the hip (y) ...hahaha, kidding about the from the hip part.
This is a discussion of internal ballistics...and I'm specifically curious to know just how far a 200 grain XTP with a muzzle velocity of 1,305 fps can cleanly take a deer. The 10mm can muster over 750 ft. lbs. of energy at the muzzle...if you subscribe to the energy idea....I've taken several deer with a 45acp with only a little over 350 ft. lbs. of energy, all clean kills.
I'm talking a big deer...not a 100 lb. doe, I'm after them old bruiser bucks that often exceed 200 pounds live weight that have been known to absorb good hits and keep on going never to be seen again...I'm convinced an old whitetail buck just might be harder to stop than the big 5 if you catch them when they're all wired up.
I've got one of these bucks located at one of my hunting spots...
The place where I think I can corner him, the shot will be no more than 20 yards...but I'm still curious, just how far should I shoot with the 10mm and expect a quick, clean kill.
He was a big 9 point last year...the next trail cam pics should tell the tale about this year a little better, if I can get my wife to go check them for me...NOT EASY to get to this one.
Not much of a hunter of large animals...only a few times... but I can take a guess.
I would put the safe range ( with a good round ) for a 10mm pistol similar to what you would shoot with the bow. I wouldn't take a shot unless inside the max range of 100ft.
If a large buck, I prob go with something heavier. I have only gone with a 30-06 so i don't have any knowledge with other rounds... Ive had one shot hits, they traveled a max of 100ft after hit, one much less, one just dropped.
The question on 10mm pistol hunting range envolves various elements of skill, ethics, game type, ammo, conditions, situation.
Harvested a 300+lbs wild boar with singe shot from 10mm Glock using the 200gr Underwood XTP from about 30 yards. Boar obliged by turning about 75 degree perpendicular to me and provided unobstructed view of his ear & neck. Bullet hit about inch and half below and behind left ear and DRT'd the boar. In that particular case the projectile was exceptionally effective. As it was a mean, dangerous boar and I wasn't looking for a trophy mount; I was fully prepared to feed him as much lead as would have been necessary to settle the issue.
But a trophy buck to me is a much more serious endeavor. It's not a matter of simply killing the deer in my opinion. It's about harvesting a majestic wild animal as humanely, swift & cleanly as possible. Wounding and losing the track of a trophy buck is as anguishing and disappointing a result as any Hunter can experience. Years and years ago I lost the track of a nice buck hit in the boiler room from a 308 and although I've taken dozens of deer since then; I've never forgotten that feeling.
You know the answer and said it yourself. It's within the distance your ability allows you hit where your aiming. I've seen some 40 & 50 yard shots on bucks with 10mm do the trick but I'd personally stay inside 25 yards. If it was an animal I'd been after for years and intended to make a trophy of; I'd most likely have a rifle along to remove as much doubt as possible if distance was much beyond that stated or conditions called for it.
The last deer I shot was with my Winchester APEX 45 Cal Muzzleloader, Bullet was the Hornady 0.400" 200 grain XTP in a sabot.
The velocity from the 29" barrel is between 1950 and 2000 fps. Range to the deer was 140 yards, shot placement was right side slightly behind the right leg, bullet entered broke ribs, punched the lungs and even hit the top of the heart, broke a rib on far side with the bullet stopping under the hide left side just behind the left leg. You couldn't ask for a more perfectly placed shot.
Well this medium sized Mississippi 6 point turned 180 hit the gas and ran down hill about 180 yards and crashed in a thicket.
Estimated impact velocity was about 1450 fps, with such a good hit I didn't expect him to make that much of a run.
While I have been able to hit 4" targets with my S&W 1006 at 130 yards, I doubt I'd shoot a deer at that distance unless I was extremely hungry!
Given a decent rest (sitting using shooting sticks).... I can hit milk jugs at 100 yards.
The bullet still has over 1,000 fps worth of speed, over 500 ft. lbs. of energy, and has only dropped 1.5" below the point of aim...no holdover required and substantially? more powerful than some 45acp loads I've used in the past.
Would 100 yards be a reasonable? shot in your opinion?
100 yards is doable but don't expect a DRT, except in the case of central nervous system disruption hit, brain, brainstem or neck hit that disrupts the spinal cord. Just thinking of the most humane kills for the sake of the animal.
I've made heart lung hits some made 30 yards and like my last 180 yard sprint before dropping.
I made a 180 yard double lung and cut the heart in half with my S&W Mod 29 44 magnum, that one leaped straight up into the air like all four legs were on springs, dropped right where it stood. This is somewhat rare in my opinion, but it was the 44 magnum.
Heart shots are unpredictable.... I've read that it depends on the exact timing of where the heart is in its beat cycle when the bullet passes through that dictates the outcome.
In basic terms, whether the valves are open in such a way that it lets the massive spike in blood pressure enter the brain... If the timing is wrong, they have 8 seconds or so of wide open running with 2 good and working lungs... If the timing is right, they are knocked unconscious and die in about 8 seconds.... The brain of most animals can survive about 8 seconds after the heart stops beating... Using 35 MPH as an average speed, a deer can travel 130 yards in 8 seconds.
With a rifle, I'm a high shoulder shooter... I've never lost an animal with a high shoulder shot, they just can't go very far very fast when both front legs don't work... And with a rifle they die pretty fast too, as there is spinal disruption from that shot.
I expect that placement will work with a 10mm too, but research indicates a strong following for center lung shots with pistols.... with most dropping within 80 yards or so.
High power rifles can cause so much shock damage that animals drop very quickly. With lower velocity rounds, it's all about cutting blood flow or the nervous system.
A number of years ago I had a small buck run up on me across a ditch, at a range of perhaps 10-15 feet. I put a 325gr 458cal FTX right into the center of his chest at perhaps 1800fps out of a muzzleloader. The deer had seen me, and was about to spook, and the boom and smoke only made the issue worse. He spun and covered a good 200 yards before dropping over dead. Upon cleaning the animal, I had hit both lungs, the heart, the liver, and found a nicely mushroomed bullet in one of the back hams when grinding the meat. I could not have hit that deer better, but without a CNS hit, adrenaline alone was good for 200 yards.
So with a pistol one has to manage expectations. Break the shoulders or accept that a 100+ yard track is not necessarily a failure, but part of the game with these weapons. I've also shot a buck with a fixed 1.25" broadhead straight through the center of the heart and had it go over 150 yards.
Ridgerunner665: "...and I'm specifically curious to know just how far a 200 grain XTP with a muzzle velocity of 1,305 fps can cleanly take a deer....Given a decent rest (sitting using shooting sticks).... I can hit milk jugs at 100 yards."
Figuring a milk jug to be about the size of a paper plate, i.e., the broadside of a deer, and figuring you can comfortably and consistently hit that at 100 yards, I think you would be better off with a 200 gr. hard cast bullet to hopefully break the shoulders, and even if not, to penetrate completely through, maximizing blood loss with both an entrance and an exit wound.
Sam
The results of heart/lung shots on deer can vary greatly. This past year I shot a smallish doe at 100 yard with a 430gr cast bullet from my 45-70 levergun. Perfect double lung with huge holes in the lungs. The doe ran 100 yards before folding up basically right in front of me. A few years ago I shot another doe at 350 yards with my 30.06 and 165 gr bullet. The doe just stood there so, thinking I missed, I shot again and she fell over. I found two perfect double ling shots when I got to her.
You will have the same energy and velocity at 300 yards as a 45 ACP at the muzzle.
Now, that both does and doesn't answer the question.
If I were hunting recreationally with plenty of well stocked grocery stores around if I didn't get a deer today, I would limit my shots to 100 yards or less. On the other hand, if the zombie apocalypse is in full swing and that deer was my best bet for food was that deer, I might take a 300 yard shot.
I attempted a 100 yard bullet expansion test the other day...200 grain XTP at 1,305 fps muzzle velocity...wanted to see how it expanded at 100 yards...didn't quite work out, didn't have enough jugs for another try.
I hit the jugs, just below the lids... The bullet tore up the top of the first 4 jugs, deflected upwards a tiny bit and left the scene.
Based on the 3rd entrance hole there was some expansion, but who knows...
The mess....
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/Ridgerunner665/IMG_20170630_113246408_HDR_zpsgtbqtnno.jpg) (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/Ridgerunner665/media/IMG_20170630_113246408_HDR_zpsgtbqtnno.jpg.html)
The first jug...
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/Ridgerunner665/IMG_20170630_113409908_HDR_zps8pzix008.jpg) (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/Ridgerunner665/media/IMG_20170630_113409908_HDR_zps8pzix008.jpg.html)
The 3rd jug....
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/Ridgerunner665/IMG_20170630_113431331_HDR_zpsxfzwx4tf.jpg) (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/Ridgerunner665/media/IMG_20170630_113431331_HDR_zpsxfzwx4tf.jpg.html)
Just load up some starting loads with HP38, Win 231 or WSF and shoot at 5-10 yards. Those loads produce at the muzzle the velocities the bullet would have at full power out at 300 yards, eg 850-900 fps.
I would if I had those powders ??
I tried it with Unique but couldn't get below 920 fps, need 800 fps to make the bullet RPM's match, as that affects expansion too.
Clarification...
800 fps from the stock Glock barrel with its 1 in 9.84" rate of twist produces 58,537 RPM's.
At 1,300 fps, from the 7" KKM barrel with it's 1 in 16" twist, the bullet is spinning 58,500 RPM's.
I have E3 powder too, I use it for 12 gauge skeet loads...
I'm pretty sure it will work for this bullet test (just as sure it won't fully eject the round), I'm not quite sure where to start with it though.
Since I have what might be the deer of my lifetime in my sights, so to speak, I've decided to pull out all the stops...
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/40-190gr-handgun-solid
Should drive through a deer from any angle, all of the benefits and none of the headaches of cast bullets.
Don't get many chances at a deer like this without paying big money for it...
I don't want to take any chances...
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/Ridgerunner665/IMG_20170628_080441_zps28joarch.jpg) (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/Ridgerunner665/media/IMG_20170628_080441_zps28joarch.jpg.html)
New picture...
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/Ridgerunner665/Screenshot_20170719-193612_zpsltfqv8vp.png) (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/Ridgerunner665/media/Screenshot_20170719-193612_zpsltfqv8vp.png.html)
My longest shot (250 pound hog) was at 85 yards with an iron-sighted 8.5" 41 Auto Mag. The gun was hand-held and I was standing. It was also cold and raining, but I still managed to shoot him right between the eyes with the first shot. I imagine a 10mm would have worked as well, but I personally would need a long sight radius to pull it off at that distance.
Tony
At what ranges, and conditions, do you routinely practice??? Beyond that is too far.
With my single actions I sight in at 50 yards and shoot out to 75. Beyond 75 is too far for me, with those handguns. We'll see what happens when I get my grock 40.....
Please elaborate for me on the problems with cast bullets. They're all I use in my hunting handguns with excellent results, both internally and externally. All copper bullets, in my limited experience with rifles, have their own set of problems.
Deer are not tough to kill. I've killed a mess of them with handguns over the years. With three mature elk* and a few antelope thrown in as well. (* Taken with a .454 Casull)
I keep shots to what I'd call old time, traditional bow range if possible. Meaning 25 yds or less. I'd keep shots to whatever distance YOU can keep all shots CONSISTENTLY into an 8 or 10 inch plate.
If that's 25 yds....Then that's your max range.
As far as WHERE....the heart/lung area is big and a good hit to either organ is a sure killer. Stay away from head shots as it's too risky. I've seen elk and deer with jaws shot off, etc. A cruel, lingering death that no animal deserves.
Bullets. I have zero input as to the 10mm. Closest to the ten would be the few deer and an antelope I took with a 6" .41 magnum and 220 gr, Keith SWC slugs. The vast majority of my deer were killed with the .44 Spcl/.44 Mag , again, with Keith style SWC's.
Since all the finer aspects of ballistics and energy have been discussed, let's consider something else. You mentioned that you'd like to kill the deer. Quickly and humanely. You're just not certain what maximum range you can do that at.
Personally, I don't care about the one shot kill. I believe that more people have lost game to the failed one shot kill than anything else. It's spectacular, romantic, and makes for good stories. It's also a great way to starve to death and lose game. You're essentially programming yourself for an all or nothing attempt without the consideration of anything but perfection. Train for the screw ups, failures, malfunctions and aww shucks. So let's trash that idea and let's examine the buckshot shotgunner tactic of shoot, close distance and shoot again.
Go with the idea that you are going to put lead on target until the deer stops, falls down and remains down all the while closing the distance and improving the accuracy percentage, energy on target and good vantage point of the target. I cannot stress enough that you must never move into an area where you lose your sight line on wounded game. Move laterally as you advance or stand and deliver from fifty yards rather than moving to thirty yards through a ravine or creek where you lose sight for any length of time. Be prepared and committed to multiple hits. Three or maybe even five hits.
How rapidly you can deliver the second and third shot at given range should dictate your maximum range of engagement. So how do you figure this out? It's pretty easy if you have a shot timer, but most of us aren't competitive shooters and we don't have this equipment. You can download an app for your phone. Set the split time goal time at one second. See how many hits you can get on a paper plate at a given distance with 1 second between shots. Increase the distance from ten yards on out to wherever you can no longer get two shots off one second apart for successful hits. Now you really need to practice getting successful hits off at a half second between shots with the ideal being around a quarter of a second shot to shot splits. Assuming that a deer can run 40 mph, that works out to nearly 60 ft/sec, so the more rapidly you can make your second hit the less distance the deer will have traveled. Obviously, a wounded deer is not likely traveling at full speed, but if we can prepare for the worst, we can expect the best from ourselves.
Once you have found your maximum range, place paper plates five feet, ten and fifteen feet to the right and left of your target. Practice shooting the first target and then the second shot and third shots on the various targets to the right or left to simulate a wounded deer going away laterally. You can also simulate this with the side plates further away or closer. The idea is to get you used to the fact that the deer may not be in the position of the first shot by the time you are recovered from the recoil and ready for your follow-up shot or that your follow-up shot may be delayed/deferred due to brush or trees being in the way. I'm a big fan of walking around randomly and then coming to a pause as if I had seen a deer or heard something and raising the gun and firing from a spot not exactly square to the targets, maybe on uneven ground, or from a half turned about position. Don't favor one side or the other. We can't choose that on the hunt. I like to shoot a shot or two and then rapidly close shoot again, and then close some more for any more shots.
Hopefully this has gotten you thinking more like a committed killer of game and the preparedness to make the kill and see it through. I think you've got enough gun. Time to get to know it and yourself a little better. When you get to the point where the shot sequence is almost automatic, you will be ready.
Now this isn't hunting but watched a video today of a 500 yard shot, not once but 3 in a row on a steel ram using a custom built 6" barrel 10mm! This was performed by a company called Accuracy X with a 180gr bullet at 1300fps. Don't know how much energy it would have at that range but you could clearly hear the hits!
The only reason I could think of for shooting at game at 500 yds with a pistol cartridge would be the follow up on Forrest's thread reply above. According to JBM Ballistics a 200gr XTP fired at 1300 FPS would rach 500 yds at 770 FPS and 263 FP KE. Thats considerably less than most 9mm defense loads. Thats less than an Underwood 380 +P load. Finishing shots warranted , first shot :o
Quote from: Forrest on November 06 2017 11:18:23 PM MST
Since all the finer aspects of ballistics and energy have been discussed, let's consider something else. You mentioned that you'd like to kill the deer. Quickly and humanely. You're just not certain what maximum range you can do that at.
Personally, I don't care about the one shot kill. I believe that more people have lost game to the failed one shot kill than anything else. It's spectacular, romantic, and makes for good stories. It's also a great way to starve to death and lose game. You're essentially programming yourself for an all or nothing attempt without the consideration of anything but perfection. Train for the screw ups, failures, malfunctions and aww shucks. So let's trash that idea and let's examine the buckshot shotgunner tactic of shoot, close distance and shoot again.
Go with the idea that you are going to put lead on target until the deer stops, falls down and remains down all the while closing the distance and improving the accuracy percentage, energy on target and good vantage point of the target. I cannot stress enough that you must never move into an area where you lose your sight line on wounded game. Move laterally as you advance or stand and deliver from fifty yards rather than moving to thirty yards through a ravine or creek where you lose sight for any length of time. Be prepared and committed to multiple hits. Three or maybe even five hits.
How rapidly you can deliver the second and third shot at given range should dictate your maximum range of engagement. So how do you figure this out? It's pretty easy if you have a shot timer, but most of us aren't competitive shooters and we don't have this equipment. You can download an app for your phone. Set the split time goal time at one second. See how many hits you can get on a paper plate at a given distance with 1 second between shots. Increase the distance from ten yards on out to wherever you can no longer get two shots off one second apart for successful hits. Now you really need to practice getting successful hits off at a half second between shots with the ideal being around a quarter of a second shot to shot splits. Assuming that a deer can run 40 mph, that works out to nearly 60 ft/sec, so the more rapidly you can make your second hit the less distance the deer will have traveled. Obviously, a wounded deer is not likely traveling at full speed, but if we can prepare for the worst, we can expect the best from ourselves.
Once you have found your maximum range, place paper plates five feet, ten and fifteen feet to the right and left of your target. Practice shooting the first target and then the second shot and third shots on the various targets to the right or left to simulate a wounded deer going away laterally. You can also simulate this with the side plates further away or closer. The idea is to get you used to the fact that the deer may not be in the position of the first shot by the time you are recovered from the recoil and ready for your follow-up shot or that your follow-up shot may be delayed/deferred due to brush or trees being in the way. I'm a big fan of walking around randomly and then coming to a pause as if I had seen a deer or heard something and raising the gun and firing from a spot not exactly square to the targets, maybe on uneven ground, or from a half turned about position. Don't favor one side or the other. We can't choose that on the hunt. I like to shoot a shot or two and then rapidly close shoot again, and then close some more for any more shots.
Hopefully this has gotten you thinking more like a committed killer of game and the preparedness to make the kill and see it through. I think you've got enough gun. Time to get to know it and yourself a little better. When you get to the point where the shot sequence is almost automatic, you will be ready.
I'm in complete disagreement. If my first shot isn't good the animal will be moving and subsequent shots will only be worse. Of course if the animal is not down immediately I will shoot again, but counting on those subsequent shots and in any way compromising on the adequacy of the first is foolhardy.
I've killed a lot of deer, I lost count years ago around 150 so it must be in the 200 range now. I can count on one hand the number I missed on the first shot but took down with a subsequent shot and still pick my nose.
I also don't hunt with or hunt with anyone using buckshot as my experience shows it to me unethical, and I've never seen anyone in the US starve from missing a deer. Seems kind of dramatic to me.
I submit that your follow-up shot is not reliable because it is mainly unpracticed. You bank on making the first shot a killer or a clean miss. Maybe the first shot isn't a miss but a bad hit. Another hit increases my chance of recovery. Once the first shot is fired I am all in to make the kill and recover the game. I've tracked deer that have slipped away because the accurate first shot failed. If I call a miss on the first shot, I don't take a second. I agree with you there. I'm fairly certain I have a good handle on handgun marksmanship at distance. Mainly people fail to practice with sufficient deliberation and they only do the things that make them feel good. Where I grew up hunting, the shotgun with buckshot was the only legal option. When I was able to hunt with other methods I did so and I have carried the lessons learned from my youth to adulthood.
Jeremiah Johnson...early in the movie...starving pilgrim that couldn't shoot straight. :P
I'm interested to see how you are getting 1300fps out of an XTP 200 grain in a handgun. With my 6-1/2" barrel on mine the best I've been able to safely achieve is about 1225.
I killed a doe last year at 30 yards with it. She ran less than 25 yards with a shot through the lungs.
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Quote from: Mike D on December 01 2017 10:13:01 PM MST
I'm interested to see how you are getting 1300fps out of an XTP 200 grain in a handgun. With my 6-1/2" barrel on mine the best I've been able to safely achieve is about 1225.
I killed a doe last year at 30 yards with it. She ran less than 25 yards with a shot through the lungs.
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I'm going with crossed wires...
One poster said 180 grain clearly and the other said 200 grain...I'd personally like to see 1300 on a 200 grainer. I'm thinking that's a handful...I've approached 1400 with a 180 from a 5" and it's a handful with AA#9. I would like to know what powder for sure.
Quote from: Mike D on December 01 2017 10:13:01 PM MST
I'm interested to see how you are getting 1300fps out of an XTP 200 grain in a handgun. With my 6-1/2" barrel on mine the best I've been able to safely achieve is about 1225.
I killed a doe last year at 30 yards with it. She ran less than 25 yards with a shot through the lungs.
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7 inch KKM barrel
12.8 grains of Accurate #9 powder
CCI 350 primer
200 grain Nosler JHP
1,306 fps
The same can be done with the XTP at 12.6 grains of Accurate #9, the XTP is a longer bullet than the Nosler, by about .010".
These loads in a stock Glock 20 generate 1,225 fps... My pistol is a Glock 40, with the longer, tighter KKM barrel.
12.6 grains of AA9 was a little light under the Nosler...
Went to 12.8 grains with the CCI 350, a little bit of a squeeze to get it in there, but it works without crushing the nose of the bullet.
1,306 fps according to my new chrono (using IR lights) which was double checked against a friend's Labradar...the Labradar came up with 1,307 fps.
The 5 shots and the average are at 15 feet from the muzzle.
(https://s19.postimg.org/krarksw5v/Screenshot_20171125-100258.png) (https://postimages.org/)
Quote from: Ridgerunner665 on December 05 2017 08:55:51 AM MST
Quote from: Mike D on December 01 2017 10:13:01 PM MST
I'm interested to see how you are getting 1300fps out of an XTP 200 grain in a handgun. With my 6-1/2" barrel on mine the best I've been able to safely achieve is about 1225.
I killed a doe last year at 30 yards with it. She ran less than 25 yards with a shot through the lungs.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
7 inch KKM barrel
12.8 grains of Accurate #9 powder
CCI 350 primer
200 grain Nosler JHP
1,306 fps
The same can be done with the XTP at 12.6 grains of Accurate #9, the XTP is a longer bullet than the Nosler, by about .010".
These loads in a stock Glock 20 generate 1,225 fps... My pistol is a Glock 40, with the longer, tighter KKM barrel.
Interesting, thanks for the info.
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Interesting discussion and it contains some good info. I will offer my comments on the OP's original hypothetical premise.
Since this is a 10mm (.40 cal) forum let's start with a look back at the .40-60 Winchester. That cartridge first appeared in the Winchester "Centennial" model of 1876. It was a black powder cartridge, medium in size between the big .44s and .45s, and the "small" .38s (just like like the 10mm). In its day it was a powerful deer cartridge and a much better choice than the popular .44-40 WCF. The .40-60 Winchester was very popular. Winchester offered loaded ammunition for 58 years. To put that into perspective, consider how many modern "wonder cartridges" we've seen recently that didn't even last half that long!
The original .40-60 Winchester factory load was a 210gr lead bullet going 1562 fps and producing 1136 ft-lbs at the muzzle. Even in its day the .40-60 was thought of as a deer, black bear, and antelope cartridge not as a big bear and moose cartridge. No doubt that's why Canada selected caliber .45-75 over .40-60 for the 1876 rifles they issued to the RCMP. The standard 1876 Winchester came with a barrel mounted rear sight but some were offered with vernier sights. With those sights, the .40-60 was probably not at all useful for hunting beyond 300 yards. Further, most .40-60 hunting was surely conducted closer than 200 yards.
We know that if you can get a bullet in the right place at just about any distance it is capable of killing. People have been killed by errant .22LR bullets fired from more than a mile away. It's just a matter of chance. But we don't want to depend on chance.
So, let's compare the .210 gr .40-60 Winchester factory load to a 220gr hard cast bullet coming out of a 10mm auto at 1200 fps with 710 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. Perhaps that will have some validity.
Chart and tables showing the comparison are here: http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?t=874703dc
The first thing we notice is that the 10mm bullet drops really quickly once it gets past 100 yards. I think it might be difficult to find a rear sight high enough for shooting much past that distance. For example, with a 50 yard zero you would need to come up 1-3/4 feet at 150 yards, 3-1/2 feet at 200 yards, and over 6 feet at 250 yards.
We can also see that the .40-60 has about the same velocity and energy at 150 yards that the 10mm has at the muzzle. If the .40-60 is best for hunting within 200 yards with 300 yards being the extreme then, based on this comparison, we can see the 10mm 220gr load is best used for hunting at 50 yards with 150 yards being an extreme distance.
Remember, though, that most of today's shooters would classify the old black powder .40-60 Win as a marginal deer cartridge. Still, I think within 50 yards the 10mm is adequate and within 50 yards is probably what most handgun hunters consider a reasonable hunting range for a 10mm auto.
I like the 20 - 30 yard shots, with good shot placement, using a 180 - 200 gr load from UW, or your own hand rolled equivalent, the outcome will be to your liking...most times that is.
I don't know, how good are your eyes? Is the gun Red Dot or scoped? I guess there would be a max where if the bullet actually hit something it would not have enough force to penetrate any more.
I keep my 10mm under 50 yards on game, but I am only hunting with the stock open sights. I might push it up to 75 yards for deer-sized and under animals with a red dot.
Lol, with my vision / using iron sights, I always keep my deer hunting range at 30 yards or less, the G20 is a very capable weapon, however in my case, I know my limits
The 10mm cartridge with well constructed bullets is capable of taking game further than most shooters can manage. That being said, there is no substitution for practice. 100 yards is well within the cartridges capabilities. I know this by taking WV size white tails with it slightly beyond that distance with xtp bullets. They have always performed when called upon on whitetail deer. As for other larger game, I cannot add in. 125 lb whitetails 100 yards is well within the limitations and offers ethical passage of the game.
I shot this pig at 80 yards with factory Hornady 180 gr XTP. Full pass thru. The pig was +/- 200 lbs.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190304/7073e45533c6213c6961c5c6644c8e2d.jpg)
For reference. I'm 6'3" 245 lbs.
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Nice job!
Years back I had issues with hogs coming to the feeder pens and running the cattle off. At the time, the truck gun was a 30-30 Contender Super 14 that is highly modded for competition steel plate shooting....the old silhouette game. I was loading nuclear loads under the Remington Core Lok soft point. It's more of a game bullet than anything. Came up to the barn and here's a 400lb hog feeding on my cattle feed. As we all know, hogs can't see anything past 5 feet but they great smell and hearing. Worked my way over to the fence, got a good steady rest on a fence post and touched the Contender off. Hog was maybe 20 yds away. He hit the ground, then got up, ran thru a 1x 6 corral fence, then ran thru a chain link fence, then took off across a 500 acre coastal grass patch. Could not believe that hog ran off and looked like I never touched him. I gave it an hour and then drove across the coastal patch and he laying at the fence on the other side. Near perfect shot on the shoulder with a large exit hole. I doubt there would have been any difference if I had shot him with a 300 Win Mag. Some animals can just pack off a lot of bullet. Coyotes are the same down here, They can pack off bullets that could kill an elephant. I had a few pack off 350gr HP out of a 458 Winchester. So when talking about how far with a pistol, it makes a difference what animal you're shooting. Deer, no big deal, they're an easy kill. Hogs, coyotes, different story. On deer I've killed them at 100 yds with a scoped pistol. But it's probably not something I'd try with the crude sights that come on the average pistol. We practice shooting a 6" round steel plate at 100 meters and I'm reasonably good at it. My brother apparently doesn't know how to miss though. So distance shooting with pistols is in our game book but you need to know what you're shooting at before making any blanket statement about a pistol at distance.