Interesting take on our favorite round. His main gripe seems to be the larger sized pistols chambered in 10mm. The G29 was mentioned as a 4 time purchase that he states doesn't do well in 10mm!
https://youtu.be/UiCEbXFRbPE
Are these our current lightest/smallest 10's?
- Glock 29
- EAA Compact
- EAA P Carry
- Grand Power P40
I need to look up all the spec's on these.
Well the 10mm was designed as a Fighting Combat pistol...Size wise there are many who carry a 1911 45ACP and we all know there are plenty of people that love those. As a Combat role most are a 4.5" to 5" barreled pistols, for rugged service and performance.
I can say I carry the G-29 or the G-30 and do so IWB daily (both the same size and can use the same holster).
The thing that makes the 10mm less of a carry gun is negative press and publicity, as they constantly push the 1911 platforms (like a drug dealer). This also is why you don't see much 10mm ammo on store shelves. Ammo choice can be a determining factor while in a particular location, shopping area or restaurant vs an outdoors environment. By that I would say, close quarters with people around using 10mm that is mid range velocity ammo over full potential ammo could be a determining factor.
It has been the 10mm enthusiast like us here, that have kept the drive alive. We know and understand the cartridge's potential and the firearms that work well to deliver accuracy, security and protection. The press hasn't done us any favors except when a NEW Gun hit the market to sell their magazines... :(
As is YankeeMarshal's practice for all his videos; he titles them with very provocative,
categorical, evocative names... Its simply click bait..
As is often the case for him; the video's contents don't really support the title.
He just basically points out HE doesn't handle the Glock 29 well and doesn't
prefer to carry full size pistols (45acp, 10mm, etc). His opinion is his own. Then again;
dude often prefers to carry Chiappa revolvers so give he's
opinion the weight you feel it deserves.
Otherwise he clearly acknowledges how formidable the 10mm is as a sidearm.
Quote from: 10-7 leo on March 21 2017 08:00:26 AM MDT
He's entitled to his opinion. I don't share his opinion.
Yes...
It's not that EVERYTHING he says is wrong, it just takes him so long to say it. ;D
Mine in a nutshell: I mostly carry 9mm and .380 because gun size, but for defense around the compound de Pablo, 10mm.
I have watched several vids by Yankee Marshall. Two today, including this one. (I also watched a video about the 40 S&W being a bad compromise round).
He owns a 10mm, and has his opinion of it's place. That opinion is based, at least in part on a number of "alternative" facts that are commonly accepted.
1. Small guns can't handle full power 10mm ammo
He may have something partly right here. There are plenty of guys here who have had issues feeding a factory G29 full bore Underwood ammo. There have also been a fair number who report no issues. I go agree with Yankee Marshall that if you are going to carry Underwood 180 grain at 1350 fps, or 200 grain at 1250 fps, the G29, Witness P Compact or Witness P Steel may not be the best options. You need some mass and frame rigidity to go along with that much recoil energy.
But, my G29 shoots fine with my personal defensive load of 8.2 grains of Longshot under a Nosler JHP. That round clocks along at 1150 out of my G20. I haven't chrono'd it out of the G29, but I would expect it to be around 1075-1100 fps and over 500 lb-ft at the muzzle of a compact handgun. And I have 11 rounds ready to go, and a 15 round reload. I expect most G29's would run this load without any issue at all.
Is it a handful? Sure. I would not want to shoot 200 rounds in a session. But I practice with a 180 grain at about 850 fps from this gun, and I can shoot that all day long. And, I have no concerns about NOT shooting the hotter round well under stress. All the reports are that when the excrement intersects the air dispersion apparatus recoil is rarely noticed, and shooting slow is rarely a problem.
Do I long for some other options? Yeah. I picked up a P30SK/S last Saturday for my daughter and wife to shoot. I think a HK10mm patterned after the P30/HK45 would be a great carry gun, especially for people who don't have bear paws like I do. And, I really like the action with the DA/SA trigger with both a decocker and a safety for condition 1 carry if desired.
So, I agree that the current options aren't optimal for all people. The G29 doesn't fit many people well, and the EAA is hit and miss on reliability in the compact guns. But, the rest of his diatribe is bull. Small guns that are powerful enough to merit consideration are not fun to shoot.
Oh...and I often carry a full size G20. Not hard at all, just requires commitment.
2. The 40 S&W was born because people couldn't handle the 10mm
I see this all the time, from very reputable gun writers. From guys I really respect for their gun knowledge. The 10mm is a magnum level round with all that entails, including extra diligence to shoot 10mm guns well with full power ammo.
But, the 40 S&W was NOT created because people couldn't handle the 10mm. The FBI load appeared BEFORE ballistics testing even began, because they were using one of the lab tech's personal Delta Elite and he was concerned about frame cracking with full power loads. So he created the hand loads for testing, 180 JHP loaded to 950 fps. These were the loads that were tested, were accepted and were spec'd to Federal. Federal loaded the 180 grain 10mm hydra-shok to this speed/power level.
And...
S&W was given this ammo along with a request from the FBI for a 4506 based gun to shoot their new 10mm load. S&W realized that there was a lot of empty space that wasn't needed. They reached out to Winchester and the 40 S&W was born. It met exactly the FBI criteria, but with a few upsides, many for gun makers.
Among the upsides were the ability to fit the new shorter round in a "wonder-nine" by just changing the barrel and maybe the slide. This was hugely attractive to many gun makers who during the 80's had invested a good bit of R&D in high capacity DA/SA 9mm handguns. The 10mm Auto was a huge threat to that investment since it would require a complete redesign if it became the round to have. But, the 40 S&W could be chambered with minimal additional cost, and could replicate the FBI external and terminal ballistics.
Another big upside was the shorter round provided shorter trigger reach that is more comfortable for average hands.
The marketing reason though was to malign the 10mm as "too much handgun" for the average shooter. And that black mark wasn't called out for the BS it was, and it lingers still.
And I think that hype is what mostly informs the Yankee Marshall's opinion. And many others.
Ridiculous opinionated commentator on that video. I stopped watching when the guy said that 10mm guns tend to be big, bulky guns like the 1911. What an idiot. ::) A 1911 a big, bulky gun? I find a full size, all steel 1911 pistol an easier to carry and conceal gun than any Glock 17 9mm pistol. This guy obviously knows nothing about what he is saying.
Quote from: sqlbullet on March 21 2017 09:12:09 AM MDT
Oh...and I often carry a full size G20. Not hard at all, just requires commitment.
Commitment...hitting the nail on the head! I carry the G20 also. I have carried 1911's, N frame 58's, big size autos and revolvers. I dress around the gun. Where I am going also dictates part of the equation. He also brought up the fact that it hurts his hand/wrist shooting a lot of rounds...I think once you go into a defensive situation your adrenaline would have kicked in and you would not notice it untill later. And would you be shooting that many rounds? I don't think so.
K ... so ...
Every time Yankee boy said "Big Heavy Gun," all I could hear was: "My iddy biddy liddle pussy hurts." I want to mail him a diaper pin on general principle. Leastwise he doesn't seem to suffer PTSD following his attempts so ... it could be worse.
Yes, I pack a full size (sometimes double stack) 1911 most of the time. Sometimes I wonder what the whiners have against gear appropriate to distribute the massive, enourmous loads effectively. Then my mind wanders again.
Yankee's is the first channel I check everyday when I get home from work. If you haven't watched him much it can be very easy to take him wrong. Whenever he puts out this type of video he is usually quick to point out that these are his opinions. He is a strong supporter of the 2A and individual freedom. When he talks about a subject he draws from his experiences and only that. If he has no experience with a particular platform he doesn't bring it into the discussion. Does this make his arguments sometime one sided and incomplete...yes. Overall, he is an entertaining and enjoyable content creator and I hope people will give him a chance. :D
Quote from: tommac919 on March 21 2017 08:47:32 AM MDT
Quote from: 10-7 leo on March 21 2017 08:00:26 AM MDT
He's entitled to his opinion. I don't share his opinion.
Yes...
Your comment pretty much surmises my opinions of all of his videos I have watched... He is a little too whiny and left leaning for my taste... Go watch a few of Jeff Quinns videos on GUNBLAST you will feel better. He too is a big 10MM man.
CW
Quote from: rapidray10mm on March 21 2017 04:27:41 PM MDT
Quote from: sqlbullet on March 21 2017 09:12:09 AM MDT
Oh...and I often carry a full size G20. Not hard at all, just requires commitment.
Commitment...hitting the nail on the head! I carry the G20 also.
I also usu carry the G20... a good IWB ( supertuck) and dress right, it's never seen.
I can even wear dockers and long sleeve dress shirt tucked in.
The only give away would be the clips on the belt and they don't show much on a black belt
Glad I read all the critics reviews here first. Save me the time how watching.
I will say My daily carry 9 months out of the year is Delta Elite. A nice shoulder holster (Miami Classic and a Wright Leather Works on the way) and sports jacket or fleece sweater and your good to go anywhere.
He says he has owned FIVE G29's and they weren't working for him. Sounds like the issue is with his shooting style and not the gun.
Quote from: 4949shooter on March 22 2017 02:39:50 PM MDT
He says he has owned FIVE G29's and they weren't working for him. Sounds like the issue is with his shooting style and not the gun.
He's just a wuss. I carry my G29 with either Uw 10mm 200 XTP or Uw 9x25 125 XTP and had shot both so I'm used to them. It does get easier with practice and putting on a 21# recoil spring helps too.
Quote from: 4949shooter on March 22 2017 02:39:50 PM MDT
He says he has owned FIVE G29's and they weren't working for him. Sounds like the issue is with his shooting style and not the gun.
You won't find a single video of him showing a target he shot.
.
regardless of that report, I continue my search for suitable additional 10mm to supplement my Sig 220-10.
Perhaps a CZ or something with a P35 style grip. Recent G40 didn't work for me very well.
Prefer double stack. Any links for a good comparison review?
Quote from: my_old_glock on March 23 2017 09:50:11 AM MDT
Quote from: 4949shooter on March 22 2017 02:39:50 PM MDT
He says he has owned FIVE G29's and they weren't working for him. Sounds like the issue is with his shooting style and not the gun.
You won't find a single video of him showing a target he shot.
.
Interesting..
I didn't even need to watch the video to know who this is. I don't like his style and disagree with many of his declarations on calibers and platforms.
I understand the limitations of my G29sf. I understand more my limitations with a handgun. As a lot of "gun people" who post on youtube they spew many words but lack knowledge. Fun to watch for a laugh.
Yankee Marshall is a bit of an acquired taste, in the same vein as Nutnfancy. You have to get past his eccentricity before you can hear what he has to say.
Jeez Louise! What a freaking pansy! Criminetly! The 10mm Auto is a full-on combat handgun! If you can't handle a full-power 10mm Auto, how do you respond when shooting a .41 Magnum revolver? How about a .45ACP(+P)? This guy is just a weenie! My best friend's daughter was accurately shooting a .44 Magnum (with full power loads) at the age of twelve! Goodness, gracious! Get a life, buddy!
Why don't I get you some cheese to go with that whine?
Quote from: happy trails on March 30 2017 10:33:03 PM MDT
regardless of that report, I continue my search for suitable additional 10mm to supplement my Sig 220-10.
Perhaps a CZ or something with a P35 style grip. Recent G40 didn't work for me very well.
Prefer double stack. Any links for a good comparison review?
Unfortunately, CZ does not make a 10mm. :( Otherwise, I 'd have one. And, do not confuse Tanfoglio (they're Italian) and EAA (I don't know what country they are. How can a European Armory be American?) with CZ. CZ is Czech Republic. I have no experience with EAA, but, I've seen Tanfoglio quality (or more precisely the lack there of) over 30 years ago and I was not impressed. I do have over 25 years experience with CZ and they're much better quality than any Tanfoglio.
I believe he has good intentions, but after watching a few of his videos, he seems to be a tad whiney.
He's also wrong. :P
Quote from: inv136 on April 02 2017 03:06:44 PM MDT
I do have over 25 years experience with CZ and they're much better quality than any Tanfoglio.
I have to take some issue with this statement.
The quality of my EAA Witness standard model is on par with my old CZ-75B. Similar levels of workmanship are exhibited in the two guns. The EAA is a bit less expensive.
I have a friend that has a CZ-97, and while it functions just fine, I felt it's workmanship was a step down. It just felt clunky and less refined than either my CZ-75 or my Witness. And it was way behind my Elite Match, which was more cost comparable.
That said, it is true that Witness guns in 10mm have some teething pains. This is a combination of a couple of factors.
First, you are stuffing almost twice the horsepower into the gun (700 lbs-ft at the muzzle vs 350 lbs-ft for 9mm). No apples to apples here as CZ hasn't even tried a 10mm in a CZ-75/97 pattern gun*.
Second, Tanfoglio has a terrible importer here in the US, meaning when you do have an issue, you are largely on your own.
Tanfoglio 9mm handguns have a great reputation abroad, and were the basis of the IMI Jericho. Their custom shop guns are an extremely solid value.
I can't speak to the gun you handled 30 years ago. But having owned two Tanfoglio products, one CZ product and spent a couple of solid range sessions with another CZ product, I can say that the guns seem very comparable. And Tanfoglio has the balls to at least try a 10mm which wins them bonus points with me.
*CZ has a platform for the 10mm in the CZ-97, but has not yet produced such a gun. I will grant that the 10mm market is small, and that likely is the driving reason they have not produced a 10mm CZ-87. But, I have to wonder is part of the issue is not the difficulty at adapting to the much higher energy levels of the 10mm, and the potential negative press guns that had issues may generate. Makes me wonder if they are a 4.0 student because they carefully select their classes.
Good thing I am 6ft 3in. I carry my Glock 20 or 21 more than any other Glock all year round.
Glad I'm not the only one who was a little put-off by this video. Aside from the click-bait title (should have been "give us a better 10mm carry gun"), I'm not sure that his reasons are valid: he doesn't like safeties, he doesn't like compact 10mm's (but he likes compact .357 magnums). They're opinions and preferences, not reasons.
That said, my greatest "irk" is that it fosters the myth of the "overpowered" 10mm, when his gripe is about the bullet launchers, not the cartridge.
Carry & shoot a Glock29 daily. Even days free style odd days weak handed. Weight 145, age 82 & lift weights 5 days a week. :D
Perhaps Yankee should MAN up. :o
Added: My shoot/carry is 13gr #9/180 cast/WLP/1.250--NOT a sissy load!!
Quote from: Duck of Death on April 16 2017 02:46:52 PM MDT
Carry & shoot a Glock29 daily. Even days free style odd days weak handed. Weight 145, age 82 & lift weights 5 days a week. :D
Perhaps Yankee should MAN up. :o
LOL, too funny! Good for you.
Quote from: Billy346 on April 01 2017 01:30:42 PM MDT
Yankee Marshall is a bit of an acquired taste, in the same vein as Nutnfancy. You have to get past his eccentricity before you can hear what he has to say.
That's baloney. I listened intently to everything he had to say and it was total BS. Eccentricity = guy dressing up like The Burger King saying 'I'm The King.' Talking a bunch of BS = a 1911 pistol is a big, oversized, heavy gun. A big, oversized gun is a S&W 500 or a Desert Eagle .50 AE or an LAR Grizzly .45 Winchester Magnum, not a 1911 pistol in 10mm. That's total BS. So, you see I did hear what he had to say. It's not eccentricity, it's flat out stupidity. As far as an acquired taste, in desert survival situations you can drink your own urine. But, that's a taste I'd never want to acquire a taste for.
Quote from: Intercooler on March 21 2017 04:21:12 AM MDT
Are these our current lightest/smallest 10's?
- Glock 29
- EAA Compact
- EAA P Carry
- Grand Power P40
I need to look up all the spec's on these.
Id say thats a good list for factory items without covering 10mm commander 1911 variants.
Another item that I can think of which is pretty easy to convert and makes a reliable small hand cannon is the mauser m2 reamed to 10mm.
I carry my 29 daily and love it. The Underwoods feed great (but DONT limp wrist it). I carry Sig V-Crowns and I've been working on my double taps. I think the guy is nuckin futz lol
Here is one of my double tap targets.
[attachment deleted by admin]
I've never carried a 10mm as my CCW...well, maybe thats not true...I started with a Beretta 96 chambered in 10mm lite :))
I carry a Glock 36, love that thing, thin, light, accurate, powerful, and reliable.. the 36 replaced a Baer 1911 (stainless stinger).
For a brief moment when I first looked hard at the 10mm, I considered trading my trusted G36 for a 29....that lasted right up until I got my hands on one...way too thick for me to carry.
I'm 6' 1" and about 210 pounds, big hands...the large grip insert on the Gen 4 G40 fits me just fine, so its not the grip size, nor is it the recoil...I carry 230 grain +P HST in the G36, and shoot it just fine. By the numbers, that gun/ammo combo recoils worse than the G29 with a full toot load.
A carry gun, to me, should be above all else...comfortable to carry...the thick guns are not, to me.
All that said...the 10mm isn't for everyone, some cannot handle the recoil, others have smaller hands and can't manage the grip size.
You know what they say about opinions...