Can any one post a couple of pictures of Winchester Auto Comp Powder???
This is one powder I haven't played with, I looking for kernels/ball properties and size.
Is WAP powder still avalible? Or did it chage names? Someone suggester Ramshot's Silhouette powder as being the same powder???
Any help will be appreciated... 8)
I would like to see pictures of the RamShot powders if any one has them on hand! Specificly these three:
True Blue
Silhouette
Enforcer
Anyone with VV powders if any one has them on hand! Specificly these three:
3N37
N350
N110
For the 124 +P+ the charge was 6.6gr's. They said it sure looked like WSF.
Three Winchester powders I studing, if I can find more on them are:
WAP
WSF
HS7
All it takes are people to take pictures if they have some...
But for now it might just as well be:
(https://s20.postimg.org/6y6cidtod/WTFPowder.jpg)
I'm still shocked this information isn't isn't out there in great length but I ran all kinds of Googles looking for pics.
Quote from: The_Shadow on November 21 2012 07:04:25 PM MSTAnyone with VV powders if any one has them on hand! Specificly these three:
3N37
N350
N110
I found some stuff here -
http://www.armiestrumenti.com/blog/en/2009/04/24/polveri-infumi-vediamole-da-vicino/&title=Polveri%20infumi:%20vediamole%20da%20vicino//page/2/ (http://www.armiestrumenti.com/blog/en/2009/04/24/polveri-infumi-vediamole-da-vicino/&title=Polveri%20infumi:%20vediamole%20da%20vicino//page/2/)
(http://www.armiestrumenti.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/3n37.jpg)
(http://www.armiestrumenti.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/3n38.jpg)
(http://www.armiestrumenti.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/n340.jpg)
I found N110 here -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokeless_powder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokeless_powder)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/N110_ruuti.jpg)
I supposedly found N350 here -
http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1277 (http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1277)
(http://www.uniquetek.com/members/696296/uploaded/ppb4x4@72.jpg)
They are all pretty easy. Looks like Hamster pellets :o
Quote from: The_Shadow on November 21 2012 07:04:25 PM MST
I would like to see pictures of the RamShot powders if any one has them on hand! Specificly these three:
True Blue
Silhouette
Enforcer
I found the following pics here (along with all other Ramshot offerings too) -
http://www.precisionreloading.net/?page_id=2187 (http://www.precisionreloading.net/?page_id=2187)
(http://www.precisionreloading.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Silhouette..jpg)
(http://www.precisionreloading.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Trueblue..jpg)
(http://www.precisionreloading.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Enforcer..jpg)
Thanks REDLINE, that's the kind of stuff we need more of here... 8)
Happy to help out where I can. I learned a bunch from it too. Sometimes it takes quite a while to search stuff out (if it can be found at all) and in the process you come across stuff that answers questions you didn't even know you had. ;D
Following I add some more pics from www.armiestrumenti.com, in this case it are not taken by optic instruments but by electronic microscope (SEM). You can note that 3N38 powder has not simply cilindric grains but forated cilindric grains (about 30..50 um hole) to increase combustion progressivity:
- VV N340 -
(http://www.armiestrumenti.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/n340.jpg)
(http://www.armiestrumenti.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/n340_1.jpg)
(http://www.armiestrumenti.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/n340_2.jpg)
(http://www.armiestrumenti.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/n340_3.jpg)
- VV 3N38 -
(http://www.armiestrumenti.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/3n38.jpg)
(http://www.armiestrumenti.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/3n38_1.jpg)
- Hodgdon BLC2 -
(http://www.armiestrumenti.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/hodgdon_blc2.jpg)
(http://www.armiestrumenti.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/hodgdon_blc2_1.jpg)
(http://www.armiestrumenti.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/hodgdon_blc2_2.jpg)
QuoteIs WAP powder still avalible? Or did it chage names? Someone suggester Ramshot's Silhouette powder as being the same powder???
Yes WAP and Silhouette are the same powder. Ramshot has introduced a few new coatings to reduce flash. A quick email to Johan at Western powders will confirm.
speedy & Steve4102, Thanks for the additional imput and pictures...
Still need a picture of Winchester Auto Comp in a scale pan or laying on a sheet of paper. Just to look at the kernnel structure and texture. Someone has to have some Auto Comp stuff laying around...Pictures please! 8)
BTW still haven't found what this powder is exactly with the yellow stuff is in the Ted Nugent loads are...
(https://s20.postimg.org/wpt8ftj4t/IMG_0183.jpg)
Man I posted on a couple of other forums...still nothing not one person using Auto Comp powder!
Over 70 views on one and 20 on another still no one has power to take a picture? ???
I did get this picture of Auto Comp from one of the local guys to help out...
(https://s20.postimg.org/rib6h4wnf/Winchester_Auto_Comp.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/gipz5jlnx/Winchester_Auto_Comp.jpg)
Quote from: The_Shadow on November 24 2012 09:09:55 PM MST
I did get this picture of Auto Comp from one of the local guys to help out...
(https://s20.postimg.org/rib6h4wnf/Winchester_Auto_Comp.jpg)
The picture isn't showing up for me. Thoughts?
I'd happily post pictures, but that's one of those powders I've never tried. I don't have any comp'd guns, so I didn't see the need for it. Lord knows I already have plenty of powders.
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l195/papajohn428/IMG_5133.jpg)
Pictures like those above (especially the SEM shots) are one of the best things about forums like this one, and the interwebs in general. Very cool stuff!
Very nice selection. What is the powder between 4064 and 4895? I don't recognize it off hand and can't make out what it says.
That would be the recently-reintroduced IMR-8208, the shiny gold label doesn't photograph too well! After all the hype I wasn't that impressed with how it shot in my .308, and went back to other powders.
That's one I hadn't even heard of yet. And then on top of it you say - reintroduced. Must have been from a while ago. I don't recall seeing it in any of my reloading manuals that date as far back as 1996. Interesting that they even thought to bring it back into existence, especially since you aren't all that impressed with what else is currently available anyway. Keeps life interesting I guess, even if not fulfilling.
IMR 8208 is a powder that made a brief appearance back around 2000 or so, it was a fairly small run and the benchresters went bananas over the stuff. A couple years ago they were prodded into bringing it back, and I snagged a pound as soon as I saw it on the shelf. I have a retired police sniper rifle in .308 (Pre Model P, 03/71 production) that will do .5 MOA if I do my part, but it just didn't care much for 8208 loads, and I tried several.
I'm not sure if it's still offered.
Speaking of powders, what do y'all think is the best choice light bullets in the 10mm? I have tried several (AA-7, AA-9, HS-6 and Power Pistol) and the best results so far had 11.0/HS-6/135 Nosler averaging 1348 fps, with an SD of 13. I think that can be topped, but haven't had a chance to play with the load lately. Any suggestions?
PapaJohn, nice selection of powders for sure...however you are missing two very important 10mm powders?
Blue Dot & IMR800X althought LongShot will cover some of those needs! :)
REDLINE, I rehosted the WAC pictures...
Also from another friend...WAC picture.
(https://s20.postimg.cc/5sdndzdrx/Winchester_Auto_Comp-1.jpg)
Papa could be a big help in powder ID for #7 and #9. Wonder if he would be willing to just take a picture of all of them with the bottle label and it could become a sticky?
Shadow the tear-down info is that going into a sheet with all the ones done so far? Maybe a % certainty would help?
Quote from: Papajohn on November 25 2012 02:05:16 AM MSTSpeaking of powders, what do y'all think is the best choice light bullets in the 10mm? I have tried several (AA-7, AA-9, HS-6 and Power Pistol) and the best results so far had 11.0/HS-6/135 Nosler averaging 1348 fps, with an SD of 13. I think that can be topped, but haven't had a chance to play with the load lately. Any suggestions?
I think that would be a good question to start a new thread with.
Quote from: The_Shadow on November 25 2012 08:19:43 AM MSTREDLINE, I rehosted the WAC pictures...
TYVM! I see it now. Is it really mostly as dark (nonreflective) as the picture suggests?
That's an awesome idea intercooler! A new thread as a sticky that is more/less strictly for posting pictures of powders. Brilliant!!!
Will the powers that be allow that?
Quote from: The_Shadow on November 24 2012 09:09:55 PM MST
I did get this picture of Auto Comp...
Is it just the picture, or are Auto Comp flakes thicker than Longshot flakes?
I searched and couldn't find such an animal. Got myself banned from another site for trying and... they probably had nothing anyway :o
Quote from: Intercooler on November 25 2012 11:05:50 AM MST
Papa could be a big help in powder ID for #7 and #9.
If you've seen AA7, you've seen AA9, they look almost identical. Also, older AA9 doesn't look like newer AA9. I thought someone here had a picture posted of AA9 recently.
Quote from: Papajohn on November 25 2012 02:05:16 AM MST
Speaking of powders, what do y'all think is the best choice light bullets in the 10mm? I have tried several (AA-7, AA-9, HS-6 and Power Pistol) and the best results so far had 11.0/HS-6/135 Nosler averaging 1348 fps, with an SD of 13. I think that can be topped, but haven't had a chance to play with the load lately. Any suggestions?
Blue Dot, AA7, or Power Pistol. Any of those can easily beat that HS6 load by a wide margin. I'd be surprised if you can't get 1500 fps with that bullet with AA7, even with a "slow" barrel.
Yondering, please review this thread especially the 135's and your favorite the 220 HC...
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/underwood's-lineup-135155165180220/ (http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/underwood's-lineup-135155165180220/)
Quote from: Yondering on November 25 2012 12:38:40 PM MSTIf you've seen AA7, you've seen AA9...
Exactly. I can not tell the difference between my No.7 and No.9 powder. Here are two pics of my No.7 powder (toothpick for size reference):
This pic was taken without using camera flash;(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/P1000162-crop.jpg)
This pic was taken using camera flash;(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/P1000161-crop.jpg)
Quote from: The_Shadow on November 25 2012 01:00:18 PM MST
Yondering, please review this thread especially the 135's and your favorite the 220 HC...
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/underwood's-lineup-135155165180220/ (http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/underwood's-lineup-135155165180220/)
I did read that thread. Not sure what you're wanting me to see though? Good info, regardless, thanks for doing the work.
I'll work on getting some AA-7/AA-9 pictures taken and posted with some kind of a grid or scale in the photo for size comparison. I don't know if I have old or new versions of these powders, but I'm betting the grain size hasn't changed, just the coatings.
I used a lot of 800-X back in my 41 Magnum days, but it's so bloody hard to meter properly I gave up on it. And I'm not using Blue Dot anymore, I had some serious pressure spike issues with it 15 years ago, and have been wary of it ever since.
PapaJohn, I have some of both the AA#7/AA#9, yes they are very simular in structure and they are hard to distinguish from each other. AA#7 could have more flatten ball structure kernnels in its mix? ???
RamShot Enforcer and True Blue powders, looks a lot like AA#9 with the sherical round ball shape powder.
I took a few photos of #7 and #9 today but it's hard to get the light right with a cheapo digital camera. I'll post them from work tonight if I get the chance. With the naked eye it's hard to tell any real difference, they're both like fine sand. Now if you could get some SEM photos, THAT would be enlightening. :D
SEM photos...well my eyes aren't what they used to be :o, but visual inspection and careful load work ups will determine if what we suspect is being used, would show if we reach a particular velocity close the the factory load, while observing for pressure signs. I'm not ready to run the load ladder testing for the 357 magnum stuff just yet.
Lord only knows what they are stuffing the Ted Nugent 10mm ammo with that contains the flattened ball & yellow dusty stuff...although the charge weights vs. velocity puts it in the AA#7 performance range. I have used the Underwood load data with the 800X for my own 10mm ammo, which works in my guns as setup.
The 9mm pull downs, I need to obtain some Win AutoComp powder to run those test to see how it would measure up. Not many places local to me sell or stock smokeless powders any more.
Gold Dot bullets are also demanding some permium prices, if you can even find them in stock... >:(
Quote from: The_Shadow on November 26 2012 04:01:59 PM MST
The 9mm pull downs, I need to obtain some Win AutoComp powder to run those test to see how it would measure up.
If you do this, please post the results. I intend to buy some AutoComp as well, for the same reason, but it will be at least a few weeks.
Photos, as promised. This stuff is so fine that it's going to be really tough to get good close-ups of the grains.
Both powders together
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l195/papajohn428/IMG_9223.jpg)
AA-7
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l195/papajohn428/IMG_9226.jpg)
AA-9
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l195/papajohn428/IMG_9225.jpg)
There isn't a difference I can discern (not that I haven't mentioned that earlier).
What I would really like to know is the difference in recipe between the two.
Is it just the light in the photos or is AA7 slightly greenish in color compared to the gray/black of the AA9?
People have mentioned that the powders have undergone some changes in recent times, they mentioned more of a flattened ball structure as compared to the sherical ball of the older powder structure.
This is AA#9 from my supply 2008 date on the jug...
(https://s20.postimg.cc/n2anpt1b1/IMG_0210.jpg)
That is what my #9 looks like too. Bought it about 3 years ago.
Quote from: EdMc on November 27 2012 05:21:54 AM MST
Is it just the light in the photos or is AA7 slightly greenish in color compared to the gray/black of the AA9?
Mostly lighting. The camera never shows it how my eyes see it. Depends on the light and the angle I view the powder from the light. In general though, from a distance of around 1.5', it simply looks dark gray to me. If I get up close (a few inches from the powder) I can begin to discern different color shades a bit, and even a little more so when looking at is through a magnifying lens. In general though it is pretty much just dark gray.
Quote from: The_Shadow on November 27 2012 07:19:06 AM MST
People have mentioned that the powders have undergone some changes in recent times, they mentioned more of a flattened ball structure as compared to the sherical ball of the older powder structure.
No doubt about the shape changes over time. I wonder if the actual recipe was ever adjusted, or if it was limited to shape changing alone.
shape impacts burn rate to some degree. Accurate Arms buys the powders from different suppliers and then packages it. They specify a burn rate an general characteristics like ball, stick, etc. So, when they switch mfg, which happens every few years, small changes in formulation and specific characteristics, like ball size/shape, change too.