Can't wait to see what's in PBR. If it isn't 800-X what could it be?
PBR 200 gr FMJ is NOT IMR800X...AA#9 @ 14.0 grains. That may yield more than the 1108 fps than they state on their site.
More to come tommorrow! 8)
So it's #9 14.0 grains? Those were the V-Supreme rated at 1250 FPS:
http://www.pbrammo.com/velocity-supreme-10mm-200gr-fmj
Quick little search turned up this:
200gr FMJ 15.0 gr AA #9 1,256 fps
Fired from a AMT/IAI, 8 3/8" barrel
Primer: Fed 155
Quote:
I would say that AA#9 is the safest powder that can
be used in 10mm pistol shooting because no matter
what weight bullet you want to shoot, I dont think
you can put enough powder in the case to ever cause
a problem. Once you get below 165 grains, you run
out of case space and you cannot even get to the
maximum SAAMI pressure spec. Even then it produces
the highest book max velocities compared to all other
powders on the market. ( 155gr JHP)
For those reasons,
it is my favorite and I cannot see any other powder
competing with it with the possible exception of LongShot.
AA# 9 may not produce the ultimate way over SAAMI
pressure velocities as have 800X, PowerPistol, BlueDot
and some others at hi powder quantities, but what it
does produce is known and predictable and most of
all respectable if not nuclear performance.
I would think that is what they are the others were shown at 1108. That makes more sense at 1250 fps, I'll have to adjust the advertised data to reflect that velocity.
AA shows SPR 200 TMJ COAL 1.250"
No.9 12.2 grains @ 1056 FPS
No.9 13.5 grains @ 1200 FPS 36,300 PSI
Parabellum Research PBR 200 FMJ
Ballistics Information: 10mm
Muzzle Velocity: 1250 fps
Muzzle Energy: 693 ft. lbs
Brass Make/Headstamp: Star Line - Brass
Bullet Make/Weight/Construction/Info; Length 0.6480"/Dia.0.400": Brass Jacket Montana Gold 200gr. FMJ
C.O.A.L.: 1.2545"
Case: Diameter 0.4215" Crimp Diameter 0.4205" Length 0.9895"
Primer: Brass color possibly Winchester
Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight: ?? (edited 5:10pm 11/21) 14.0 grains. *(The more I study this powder I don't think it is AA#9, I will go back an place a question mark on this one...why I just looked over another load which is AA#9 and did a better comparison and they are very spherical round and dark almost black in color.)
**11/23/2014 **(after seeing the newer lots of AA#9, it is AA#9 which had undergone transformation to more of a flatten ball)
PBR 200FMJ pull down
Tesed 11/29/2012 PBR-Parabellum Research 200 Gr. FMJ 1140 fps : Diameter 0.4270" primer slightly flatten
(https://s20.postimg.cc/mvqhg19zx/IMG_0144.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/swo6d44bx/IMG_0157.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/jc4jq8mpp/IMG_0159.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/onjgaygi5/IMG_0160.jpg)
Oh no my ugly left hand writing :o
Just saw the pics. If it's not No. 9 I would be surprised.
You plan to fire them and Chronograph again right? Will you be measuring to see what the brass and primer does?
All the brass color primers have been Winchester from what I gather.
The_Shadow, did you by chance weigh on of those 200gr FMJ? I'm curious if they actually come out to exactly 200 grains.
Those bullets look just like Montana Gold TMJ.
That 9mm and Right2Bear would be interesting to see.
Only thing not to like about #9 in 10mm is the cost. It takes a 50% larger charge of powder by weight. That has gotta add up.
Makes me wonder if PBR didn't buy up all the vintage pull-down WC820 they could find. That would put the price per round back on par with longshot or 800-X. And heaven knows you can't find the Vietnam era WC820 anymore, and the new WC820 is slower.
Yes I will CHRONO after the pull downs and documentations are made then reassemble them back to the original measurements as noted prior. Then I'll test them and trying my best to recover all the brass fro further details.
The bullet did weigh 200 grains on the PBR.
I had thought abouth the WC820 as a possibility for the powder, but I list it as AA#9 for less confusion.
Each cartridge to be tested has it's own word document simular to how you see in the post with the pictures.
This week we have friends and family dropping in so that may occupy some of my time as well.
Please be patient, as I don't want to rush the process, the results will be more accurate that way.
I am as interested to know as all of you...Thanks for your understanding. ;D
Shadow, I'm curious how you positively identified that powder as AA9? Are you just going by the charge weight and appearance, or something more?
Quote from: Yondering on November 20 2012 10:45:45 AM MST
Shadow, I'm curious how you positively identified that powder as AA9? Are you just going by the charge weight and appearance, or something more?
I did compare to my supply of AA#9 which is slighty darker, also as mentioned earlier the data actually fits very close to older Acurate Arms data for the 200FMJ showing 13.5 grains @ 1200 fps.
Thanks. Just wondering if it was a pretty solid guess, or actually a positive ID. I don't disagree with you that it appears to be AA9, but I wouldn't call that positive ID.
True it is harder to say absolutely positively I suppose for this one as compared to mine , I have read that recent Acurate Arms powders have gone thru some changes like more sperical to a more flatten ball consistancy.
BTW I did compare this one to my Winchester 296 and Hodgdon H-110 because they would be closer to fit the profile but the pressures would be higher than with AA#9 from other data I looked over.
I don't think it is 2400 either, but I don't have any left to compare with, if I recall it was smaller flakes inbetween Power Pistol and Blue Dot, but closer in profile weights as well.
I welcome anyone to post pictures to compare with these to help make a more absolute ID.
In this thread http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/ted-nugent-ammo180-jhp/ (http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/ted-nugent-ammo180-jhp/) I just posted picks of No. 7 which looks exactly identical to my No. 9 powder, even under a magnifying lens (I just checked :D ).
Yeah...but 14.0 grains of #7 would be way over pressure profile I am pretty sure.
Quote from: The_Shadow on November 20 2012 09:50:22 PM MST
True it is harder to say absolutely positively I suppose for this one as compared to mine , I have read that recent Acurate Arms powders have gone thru some changes like more sperical to a more flatten ball consistancy.
BTW I did compare this one to my Winchester 296 and Hodgdon H-110 because they would be closer to fit the profile but the pressures would be higher than with AA#9 from other data I looked over.
I don't think it is 2400 either, but I don't have any left to compare with, if I recall it was smaller flakes inbetween Power Pistol and Blue Dot, but closer in profile weights as well.
I welcome anyone to post pictures to compare with these to help make a more absolute ID.
I agree that it is probably AA9, based on the charge weight and appearance. With Accurate powders though, you really can't identify them by appearance. There are several other powders that look similar, including AA7 and A1680 in Accurate's lineup, and Ramshot powders. Maybe some VV powders too?
Youndering if you have some of those powders could you post pictures? It maybe useful for my studies because I haven't worked with the VV or RamShot powders yet...and not much info about loading 10's to that level or profile ???
Thanks,
Just a thought, but due to cost I'd be surprised to see VV powders used in commercial loads in the US.
As always, I reserve the right to be wrong. ;D
Sorry, at the moment I don't have any VV or Ramshot pistol powders, only rifle. I need to spend a few hundred bucks to restock my powder selection again.
The more I study this powder I don't think it is AA#9, I will go back an place a question mark on this one...why I just looked over another load which is AA#9 and did a better comparison and they are very sperical round and dark, almost black in color.
The power in the picture is more of a flattened ball type and not as dark and spherical like AA#9
(https://s20.postimg.cc/bw5a4jm6l/IMG_0210.jpg)
Quote from: sqlbullet on November 21 2012 10:03:42 AM MST
Yeah...but 14.0 grains of #7 would be way over pressure profile I am pretty sure.
100% true. It's just that since it looks identical to my No.9 powder I saw no reason to take more pics, therefore suggesting to use my No.7 pics as a reference to No.9 also.
Quote from: EdMc on November 21 2012 01:27:17 PM MST
Just a thought, but due to cost I'd be surprised to see VV powders used in commercial loads in the US.
As always, I reserve the right to be wrong. ;D
I wouldn't think it's a VV powder either. Seems to me you can't even fit 14.0 grains of a VV powder that even has a chance of working in this application into the case under the bullet at 1.260" or less.
Quote from: The_Shadow on November 21 2012 04:09:46 PM MST
The more I study this powder I don't think it is AA#9,
I don't either. It doesn't look like my No.9 which looks exactly like my No.7.
The only other powder I think it might be is Ramshot Enforcer which I have been told is very similar to what No.9 does. It sure as heck isn't True Blue or Silhouette, and beyond those two and Enforcer leaves us with Ramshot rifle powders that wouldn't fit the scenario either.
Ramshot Enforcer is definitely my best guess. Plus I've heard it meters super sweetly, and from what I see in your pic it appears that powder would meter super sweetly.
My second guess, which is a WAG, would be Accurate 4100. But I don't know what it looks like, or what it's capable of.
Quote from: The_Shadow on November 21 2012 04:09:46 PM MST
The more I study this powder I don't think it is AA#9, I will go back an place a question mark on this one...why I just looked over another load which is AA#9 and did a better comparison and they are very sperical round and dark, almost black in color.
The power in the picture is more of a flattened ball type and not as dark and spherical like AA#9
(http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/IMG_0210.jpg)
My AA9 doesn't look like this at all. It looks very much like the powder pictured earlier. Mine is newer production, purchased last year.
The stuff I pulled down from DT 357 Mag looked exactly like that picture above, which came out my jug from 2008.
I don't reload and now know two I could ID from 100 feet away.... 800-X and Blue Dot :-\
Here is a video at the 2:00 mark of Blue Dot, 800-X and #9. Still think this may be #9?