What is your opinion of this pistol?
Thinking of buying one.
I've had one for 4 or 5 years ... my only 1911 and only semi-auto until very recently. (My recently acquired 1911 is a S&W SW1911-Pro in .45acp, that I shoot .45 Super in).
I think Kimber made ALL the right design choices in the Eclipse, and I think 10mm is vastly superior to .45acp (and also superior to .45 Super). My only complaint (and a non-trivial one) is that I've had many jams in shooting my Eclipse (always shooting full-spec 10mm). The current failure rate is fairly low, I think, but I still don't completely trust it ... for the last six months, I've exclusively carried my S&W69 .44mag L-Frame revolver instead, because I trust it, and because the ballistics of the .44mag round are even better than the 10mm. The SW1911-Pro .45 hasn't had any jams, but I've only shot a hundred or so full-spec .45 Supers so far, so its reliability really hasn't been established yet.
If Kimber floats you boat, nothing wrong with them compared to other 1911's in that price range.
I started out with Colt 1911 pistols for a decade and later learned about Kimbers which are more value for the same dollar (with standard features like match barrel, match trigger, and night sights for the same price of a comparable Colt without these extras). I've had a number of different Kimbers including the Pro Eclipse .45 ACP, Stainless Pro Carry .45 ACP, Custom TLE/RL II 10mm, and Stainless Pro Raptor .45 ACP. I preferred the stainless to the Eclipse because the Eclipse black finish tended to rub off from holster wear.
I've now discovered the Dan Wesson line of 1911 pistols and have sold off all of my Kimbers and have two DW 10mm pistols as well as one Night Hawk Custom 10mm pistol. DW costs a little more than Kimber and Col, but, are head and shoulders above them in quality. And, as mentioned, the 10mm is a much more effective caliber than .45 ACP or .40 S&W, 9mm, .357 magnum, and .38 Super. Ballistics of a full house 10mm is near that of the .41 magnum. And the recoil is very manageable.
One thing that keeps me in the Kimber camp for 10mm is the fact that Kimber is the only maker of 10mm 1911's that has a grip-lever-controlled firing-pin safety. That's a requirement for me. (The S&W SW1911-Pro .45 that I bought is (I believe) the only non-10mm 1911 that has a grip-lever-controlled firing-pin safety (besides Kimber)).
If you gotta have one the Swartz style is nice as it doesn't impact the trigger at all. Another option is to go the Ruger route and use a lightweight firing pin.
Quote from: sqlbullet on December 09 2016 01:45:23 PM MST
If you gotta have one the Swartz style is nice as it doesn't impact the trigger at all. Another option is to go the Ruger route and use a lightweight firing pin.
The reason the Ruger-type solution doesn't solve the problem for me is that the primary value I place on the firing-pin safety has nothing to do with safety if the gun is dropped. Its value for me is primarily during handling of the gun, like, for example, when I'm chambering the first round at home, when I must absolutely be sure that the gun doesn't inadvertently discharge ... by gripping the gun completely below the grip lever, I get an extra, independent assurance that the gun won't fire even if there is some other unexpected failure that would otherwise cause a discharge. That gives me a peace of mind that I otherwise wouldn't have, and it's why the grip-lever-controlled firing-pin safety is an absolute requirement for me.
Well I sure do like my Kimber Eclipse :) Last year at this time I bought a Colt Delta Elite which I very much enjoy shooting, then about 6 weeks later I found this Kimber Eclipse which I bought. Well right away I was giving me all kinds of problems so I sent it back in to the factory and they had it for 6 or 7 weeks but they sure fixed all my problems that I had.
This year I carried it for Deer Hunting in WI but didn't get a Deer with it,end up shooting one with my 1951 Win 94 30-30.
Anyway there a very fine pistol and yes I would buy another one in a heart beat!!
My only 10mm is a Kimber Eclipse Custom II. I installed a 22# (?) recoil spring, higher weight hammer spring, flat-bottom firing pin stop, and metal MSH with magwell before ever shooting it.
It has been a wonderful, incredibly accurate pistol for me. Reliability has been great, and I fire exclusively full power reloads (I have a 40 if I want to shoot watered down ammo).
I don't carry it a lot because I know it will damage the beautiful finish, and I'd hate to have it taken away if I were forced to use it. I plan to buy a RIA Commander size for that.
The only pistol I have which is more accurate is a CZ Shadow 9mm which I thoroughly worked over as a dedicated target gun.
Quote from: spaniel on December 10 2016 04:37:35 PM MST
My only 10mm is a Kimber Eclipse Custom II.
[...]
Reliability has been great, and I fire exclusively full power reloads [...].
I wish mine had been that reliable. What ammo specifically do you shoot in it?
Quote from: Mike_Fontenot on December 11 2016 06:33:36 AM MST
Quote from: spaniel on December 10 2016 04:37:35 PM MST
My only 10mm is a Kimber Eclipse Custom II.
[...]
Reliability has been great, and I fire exclusively full power reloads [...].
I wish mine had been that reliable. What ammo specifically do you shoot in it?
I doubt it's the ammo causing problems...
Quote from: EchoLimaBravo on December 11 2016 06:54:29 AM MST
Quote from: Mike_Fontenot on December 11 2016 06:33:36 AM MST
Quote from: spaniel on December 10 2016 04:37:35 PM MST
My only 10mm is a Kimber Eclipse Custom II.
[...]
Reliability has been great, and I fire exclusively full power reloads [...].
I wish mine had been that reliable. What ammo specifically do you shoot in it?
I doubt it's the ammo causing problems...
I think full-spec ammo is more prone to cycling problems than lower-power loads. Some people carry full-spec but practice with lower-power loads, which isn't a good test of reliability when carrying. Also, bullet shape and weight can influence cycling reliability ... those are the sort of details that I was hoping to get.
Quote from: Mike_Fontenot on December 11 2016 01:27:11 PM MST
Quote from: EchoLimaBravo on December 11 2016 06:54:29 AM MST
Quote from: Mike_Fontenot on December 11 2016 06:33:36 AM MST
Quote from: spaniel on December 10 2016 04:37:35 PM MST
My only 10mm is a Kimber Eclipse Custom II.
[...]
Reliability has been great, and I fire exclusively full power reloads [...].
I wish mine had been that reliable. What ammo specifically do you shoot in it?
I doubt it's the ammo causing problems...
I think full-spec ammo is more prone to cycling problems than lower-power loads. Some people carry full-spec but practice with lower-power loads, which isn't a good test of reliability when carrying. Also, bullet shape and weight can influence cycling reliability ... those are the sort of details that I was hoping to get.
I shoot near-max loads of Longshot with 155, 180, and 200gr bullets. XTPs and Missouri Bullet coated lead. No difference in reliability across that range.
If you experience reliability problems in the 1911 platform with 10mm, I suggest you look into making the hammer spring, recoil spring, and firing pin stop modifications I noted. All of this helps control the excessive slide velocity of the 10mm.
My brass still enters low Earth orbit... ;)
Before I sold my Kimber Custom TLE/RL II 10mm pistol, I took it to the range along with my Night Hawk Custom Recon Enforcer 10mm and shot both for the first time using Underwood 155 gr JHP 1500 fps ammo. The NHC had no issues and fed 100%. I had one round jam in the Kimber (out of about 20 rounds). I then tried some regular low power 10mm Federal 180 gr JHP 1030 fps which functioned 100% in both the NHC and the Kimber. I sold my Kimber pistols and bought a couple of DW 10mm 1911 pistols which I am in the process of running them with the Underwood ammo which is my carry 10mm ammo.
Quote from: spaniel on December 11 2016 05:42:49 PM MST
If you experience reliability problems in the 1911 platform with 10mm, I suggest you look into making the hammer spring, recoil spring, and firing pin stop modifications I noted. All of this helps control the excessive slide velocity of the 10mm.
I tried all those things shortly after I bought my Eclipse, but I found that I couldn't get the light trigger-pull that I wanted (about 2.5 lbs) with anything other than a light 18lb hammer spring. And jamming frequency always seemed to increase with heavier recoil springs ... I used the stock 18.5 lb recoil spring for years (because it seemed more reliable than any other choice), but finally upped it to 20 lb after seeing some battering. I HAVE been using a flat-bottomed firing-pin stop for years, though.
I had one for a couple years. It shot good with select ammo and factory mags. I could not get it to shoot well with my other mags. Tried several brands. I found it to be unreliable in the long run compared to my other 10's so I sold it.
Quote from: yfdcap on December 12 2016 05:08:55 PM MST
I had one for a couple years. It shot good with select ammo and factory mags. I could not get it to shoot well with my other mags. Tried several brands. I found it to be unreliable in the long run compared to my other 10's so I sold it.
I do not have person experience with the 10mm Kimber, but I have some friends who own 45ACP Kimber guns. I have never seen a Kimber go a day without malfunctioning. I doubt I have seen one go through 5 mags without a failure. The guns are accurate when they work.
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I have a few Kimbers, including a ultra carry 3"(which I carry daily). It is extremely accurate, on par with most nice Gov. models. It is also exceptionally reliable with its 3 factory mags. Wife has a Pro Carry that was having problems- put in new factory springs and it functions great with kimber 8rd and Colt 8rd mags. It is still iffy with other mags. The Raptor I have has functioned flawless with any ammo/mag. I am looking into the TLE/RL II, as I have been wanting a 1911 with a rail and now I have a new addiction for the 10mm. Don't know why there are so many Kimber haters out there- I think most of it comes from internet hype. They are like anything else sometimes a bad one slips by- maybe it comes from someone buying a used with a high round count that just needs a tune-up. The price for quality is tough to beat. It aint no Baer, but they are usually 1/3 the price too.
After reading some stuff here I am now scouring the internet for info on the Dan Wesson- I know they make some very nice 1911's.
I started with Colts back 30 years ago and moved up to Kimbers the last 10 years and never had any of these "issues" with any of the 4 Kimber pistols that I owned that other people complain of. I guess I was lucky enough to get the only Kimbers that functioned flawlessly. Based on comparative pricing for features, the Kimbers were better than any of my Colts (Combat Commander/Government Model/Delta Elite). I had a stainless Pro Carry .45, a Pro Eclipse .45, a Custom TLE/RL II 10mm, and a stainless Pro Raptor .45. All of them functioned flawlessly. I kept trading because I wanted to move up to 10mm.
And I moved up from Kimber to Dan Wesson which is a better 1911 than Colts/Kimbers/SA/RIA. There's nothing wrong with Kimbers. I had several and never had any problems. One thing I always did was dump the Kimber magazines which were the only thing I didn't like about Kimber. I always bought Wilson Combat and Tripp Research Cobra magazines. Who knows, maybe the Kimber "magazine" was the problem that these so-called Kimber owners had with their lemons. All I know is all of my Kimbers worked fine. Now I don't own any Colts or Kimbers because I prefer the Dan Wesson 10mm 1911's.
Quote from: inv136 on December 13 2016 05:00:34 PM MST
Now I don't own any Colts or Kimbers because I prefer the Dan Wesson 10mm 1911's.
What is it that makes you prefer the DW's?
In spite of their sterling reputation, I've never been interested in them because they don't have a grip-lever-controlled firing-pin safety, which is an absolute requirement for me. They also didn't have some of the other features I prefer (at least the razorback didn't), like texturing on the front-strap of the grip, and serrations on the forward part of the sides of the slide.
The fit and finish is better and triggers are better when I compared my DW Silverback to my old Kimber Custom TLE/RRL II trigger. Also, Dan Wesson will do custom guns at your request. As far as I know Colt and Kimber don't do custom special requests. I started off with a DW Silverback 10mm. The only drawback was that it does not have a light rail. I learned that DW does custom special requests so I contacted them because I wanted a commander sized stainless steel, 1911 in 10mm with a light rail, night sights, match barrel, match trigger, skeleton match hammer, and magwell. They included a recessed slide stop. The only two things I did when I received the pistol was to change out the VZ grips to smooth maroon micarta grips and I have started polishing the stainless by hand.
The Silverback is supposed to be one of their better 1911's along with their Valor series (more hand fitting than the others like the cheaper Razorback model). I am impressed with my Silverback. Check out their Silverback and Valor series DW pistols. You'll see the quality difference. They're one step below the higher end 1911 pistols like the Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, and Night Hawk Custom. I know. I have a Night Hawk Custom, and they are better then the Dan Wesson 1911's.
The Silverback is the one on right. That grip is one of those Recover CC3P units that replace your pistols grips to add a light rail to a non railed 1911. It's ugly as sin, but, is the only way I can add a weapon mounted light to my Silverback. I have eliminated and replaced all of my previous .45 ACP pistols with 10mm. The first pistol on the left is my NHC. The special order DW Specialist Commander is the middle pistol.
(https://s6.postimg.org/j6nq0dx69/1911.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5czdbc4kt/)image hosting (https://postimage.org/)
I didn't mean to hijack the thread. The Kimber Eclipse is a beautiful pistol. Just watch out for the finish wear from carrying the weapon in a holster. It's a handsome, but, not a very tough finish. Unfortunately, it wears out quickly.
I sent a Colt to the factory to have it "accutized" it included custom trigger @ 3.5lbs, Hammer, grip saftey and match bbl/bushing. This was back in 99, the cost was 650(ouch), but it is a very nice colt now. I dont know if they still do it , but I am pretty sure Kimber offers customizing- dont know if it is by order or if you have to buy one and send it to them.
Kimber-45,
Kimber offers a fine firearm. IMO, they have some of the prettiest budget friendly 1911s available. I don't expect to add one to my limited collection and the sidebar between Mike and Inv provides a decent framework to share my personal reasonings.
Quote from: Mike_Fontenot on December 13 2016 05:31:03 PM MST
Quote from: inv136 on December 13 2016 05:00:34 PM MST
Now I don't own any Colts or Kimbers because I prefer the Dan Wesson 10mm 1911's.
What is it that makes you prefer the DW's?
In spite of their sterling reputation, I've never been interested in them because they don't have a grip-lever-controlled firing-pin safety, which is an absolute requirement for me.
Mike, it is very interesting that you consider the schwarz safety bits must haves. The extra bits in the Kimbers are the primary reason they don't fit into my collection. We all have our desires; my glock fanboy friends think I'm off because I want my thumb safety and grip safeties. Fair that you want them plus a firing pin safety. For me, the only parts I want interacting with my firing pin are the hammer, the tunnel, the spring, the firing pin stop and the primer it is lined up to strike.
As I stated previously, Kimber offers some handsome pistols at fair prices. I am a marketer that is a bit put off by the apparent magnitude of Kimber's marketing expenditure. I guage their ad budget and their point of sale support as expenditures I would prefer be applied to the business/workings of their pistols. I'd guess that they could build their pistols in the USA at their current profit margin if they cut their full page gun rag glossy ads in half. For me Kimber's appeal stalls at the impulse consideration level. As an enthusiast I have managed to resist the impulsive urges, but I can't promise I won't fall for shiny or sexy one day. But, I expect a Kimber would blip out of my collection as quickly as Sig 1911s dissapeared from my collection (Sigs have a different collection of tiny bits I don't need for the firing pin to do its job).
If you read this far ... my apologies. My honest opinion is that if a Kimber is calling out to you, it's worth serious consideration. But if Dan Wesson, STI, Brown, Baer, Nighthawk or Wilson make your consideration set - good luck choosing without regrets. I will also stretch in the other direction 'cause IMO Armscor plays in the same division as Kimber. Armscor is butt ugly (comparatively), but they offer fewer "extra" bits in Kimber's quality class.
Quote from: dred on December 14 2016 05:38:55 PM MST
Mike, it is very interesting that you consider the schwarz safety bits must haves.
The thumb safety on a 1911 is a very good safety: it blocks the sear, AND it blocks complete rotation of the hammer down to the firing pin. But there are times in handling when the thumb safety HAS to be off, like when chambering the first round, or when ejecting a live round from the chamber. During those times, especially when I'm at home where I absolutely MUST ensure that the gun doesn't fire, I highly value the grip-lever-controlled firing-pin safety: it protects me from a scenario where the sear is somehow "jiggled off" the hammer ledge (or the sear or hammer ledge breaks), without the trigger being pulled. Without the firing-pin safety, the fact that I'm careful, in those types of handling, to stay off the grip lever, would still allow the gun to fire. The grip-lever-controlled firing-pin safety protects me in that scenario. Granted, those types of scenarios are unlikely to happen, but I personally am not willing to dismiss them, when I CAN protect myself from them.
In addition to those unlikely, but not ignorable scenarios, there is a more general concern: all my waking hours, I carry in a homemade under-the-shirt vertical shoulder that results in my gun constantly pointing at parts of my body that I wouldn't want to shoot. To have complete peace-of-mind about that, I want a LOT of redundant, independent safeties that would ALL have to fail in order for my gun to fire.
Quote from: Mike_Fontenot on December 14 2016 06:07:12 PM MST
In addition to those unlikely, but not ignorable scenarios, there is a more general concern: all my waking hours, I carry in a homemade under-the-shirt vertical shoulder that results in my gun constantly pointing at parts of my body that I wouldn't want to shoot. To have complete peace-of-mind about that, I want a LOT of redundant, independent safeties that would ALL have to fail in order for my gun to fire.
Ahhh ... I get it now. Although I appendix carried sometimes when I had smaller guns, there is no way in heck you could get me to wear a holster with that description. And, it speaks to why what I view as redundancy of failure opportunities is actually an additional safety layer. If I get that unlikely sear failure - I will get a hole in a wall or a dent in a floor. I handle those failure concerns with muzzle discipline. Also, I can't chamber a round without depressing my grip safety (my 1911s have slide stops, but not slide releases) ... least not if firing the pistol is on my agenda.
So, we have different, but workable, solutions to the the same concerns. I simply won't point my muzzle at anything I can't stomach destroying. I absolutely respect your decisions, but I do take exception to the holster you described.
And, this sidebar may be out of place in this thread. For me, it may serve as a decent demonstration of how differences most shooters aren't even aware exist between 1911s might be applied to a purchase selection. It's relevant to Kimber because they do offer a unique take on incorporating a firing pin safety into the platform. They didn't invent it - but they stuck with it even after the originator abandoned the design.
Quote from: dred on December 14 2016 08:32:51 PM MST
...
Also, I can't chamber a round without depressing my grip safety (my 1911s have slide stops, but not slide releases) ... least not if firing the pistol is on my agenda.
...
I didn't understand the above ... could you elaborate?
I am gonna guess dred means he chambers a round using the slingshot method, not by depressing the slide stop.
For those not familiar, many people train to chamber a round not by depressing the slide stop, but by pulling the slide completely to the rear, which disengages the slide stop, and then releasing the slide.
This method as a couple of advantages. First, it mimics the standard initial stoppage drill "tap,rack,bang". Second, it is closer to a gross motor skill, versus finding the slide stop which is a fine motor skill. Third, it works the same on any pistol you might encounter, whereas all slide stops vary a bit in location, and on some pistols vary a bit in function.
However, when using this method, you have to have a firm grip on the pistol, which means a swartz style firing pin block would be disengaged at that time anyway. So the only advantage remaining would be the fact the swartz safety does not have any impact on the trigger pull.
Quote from: sqlbullet on December 15 2016 08:06:16 AM MST
I am gonna guess dred means he chambers a round using the slingshot method, not by depressing the slide stop.
[...]
However, when using this method, you have to have a firm grip on the pistol, which means a swartz style firing pin block would be disengaged at that time anyway.
[...]
I also always use the slingshot method.
When I chamber the first round at home (like after cleaning, to "put the gun back into service"), I DO move my hand down completely below the grip lever, so that it stays uncompressed. It's when I'm at home that I need to absolutely ensure that I don't get a discharge.
Obviously that method wouldn't be advisable when chambering from a new mag in a self-defense situation, or when practicing a reload at the range. In that case, I do a "bulls-eye reload": with the slide locked back, I pull the trigger fully aft, and hold it there, and slingshot the slide, not releasing the trigger until after the slide has slammed home. (The bulls-eye technique is necessary to ensure that I don't get an inertial trigger pull, because of my very light trigger-pull (2-1/2 lbs)). So in this case, the firing-pin safety DOESN'T protect me, but that's not important then, because the gun is pointed in a safe direction and it's not a disaster if it fires.
Quote from: Mike_Fontenot on December 15 2016 08:27:37 AM MST
I also always use the slingshot method.
Actually, I don't think that's the correct term for what I do. I don't grab the rear of the slide between my weak (literally!) thumb and forefinger. I put my weak hand over the forward part of the slide, well in front of the ejection port, and then pull the slide fully back and release it, letting the slide slam closed. And the gun isn't held in the firing position ... it is closer to waist-level, and with both elbows well bent ... it's a very easy way to rack the slide, that just about anyone can do. I think that may be called the "overhand" release method.
Yeah...Technically the slingshot is when you pinch the slide between your thumb and index and or tall fingers.
I wrap my hand over in front of the ejection port as well. Pulling to the rear and letting my hand glide along the top of the slide and off the back releasing it. This clears a stove pipe as a part of racking the slide.
The trick when learning this drill is it feels awkward to do at first unless you rotate the muzzle towards the weak side, potentially breaking 180.
Quote from: sqlbullet on December 15 2016 01:54:30 PM MST
[...]
The trick when learning this drill is it feels awkward to do at first unless you rotate the muzzle towards the weak side, potentially breaking 180.
Or rotate your body 90 degrees CW, so that the gun remains pointing downrange (or toward the bad guy). To make it easy, you DO need to be moving your two hands (and forearms) laterally across the front of your body, in opposite directions, approaching each other, always held close to your chest.
Quote from: sqlbullet on December 15 2016 08:06:16 AM MST
I am gonna guess dred means he chambers a round using the slingshot method, not by depressing the slide stop.
Yes, exactly.
Quote from: Mike_Fontenot on December 15 2016 08:27:37 AM MST(The bulls-eye technique is necessary to ensure that I don't get an inertial trigger pull, because of my very light trigger-pull (2-1/2 lbs)). So in this case, the firing-pin safety DOESN'T protect me, but that's not important then, because the gun is pointed in a safe direction and it's not a disaster if it fires.
Fair enough; 2.5lbs is light enough that I might have trouble relying on the ledge to prevent a bump, jiggle or forceful sneeze fire. I am imagining myself responding to a squeeze that light by beating my pistol with a nylon mallet until I was confident that the sear held the hammer securely. My triggers are all factory. (3.5 to 5.5lb) My old Vbob did make a trip back to DW to re dress the sear and stop the occasional unplanned double fires.
And regarding the slingshot ... I grab the slide with weak hand, but I rack by pushing the frame with my shooting hand. I do this because my shooting hand is controlling the direction of the muzzle and I'm not willing to give up a secure grip just to get the slide racked.
In my case, I am still waiting for my first negligent discharge. When it happens - my primary concern is to have the muzzle pointed in the safest direction available.
Quote from: Mike_Fontenot on December 12 2016 07:27:17 AM MST
Quote from: spaniel on December 11 2016 05:42:49 PM MST
If you experience reliability problems in the 1911 platform with 10mm, I suggest you look into making the hammer spring, recoil spring, and firing pin stop modifications I noted. All of this helps control the excessive slide velocity of the 10mm.
I tried all those things shortly after I bought my Eclipse, but I found that I couldn't get the light trigger-pull that I wanted (about 2.5 lbs) with anything other than a light 18lb hammer spring. And jamming frequency always seemed to increase with heavier recoil springs ... I used the stock 18.5 lb recoil spring for years (because it seemed more reliable than any other choice), but finally upped it to 20 lb after seeing some battering. I HAVE been using a flat-bottomed firing-pin stop for years, though.
All I can offer is try different mags. Mine works with all I have tried though (factory and Tripp). I have not measured my pull, but it's pretty light. I put my time into appropriate polishing of internals.
I will say, in general and beyond just Kimber, the more guns a company sells the more complains you can find on the internet. S&W is regarded as a fine revolver company in general but boy, if you really look at the revolver forums there are plenty of horror stories about their QC. Some guy received a 357 with 7 shot but fluted for 6, a couple of the chambers probably would have ruptured with normal pressure loads if he had tried to fire it. I think Kimber suffers the same numbers problem compared to DW and other lower volume brands.
Quote from: dred on December 15 2016 02:57:16 PM MST
My old Vbob did make a trip back to DW to re dress the sear and stop the occasional unplanned double fires.
I break into a cold sweat every time I imagine 9 rounds of 10mm going off in about a second or two ... who knows where that muzzle would end up pointing.
Quote from: spaniel on December 15 2016 04:30:57 PM MSTI think Kimber suffers the same numbers problem compared to DW and other lower volume brands.
That is something to ponder for about anything(specially cars/trucks). Something else seems to me if 10 people are super satisfied with something maybe 1 will take the time to post about it unprompted, but if 10 people are dissatisfied maybe 1 wont take the time to let everyone possible know about it.Then it becomes kinda pack mentality. :)
All's I know is that I am very happy with mine ;) If I wasn't happy with my Kimber I would have sold it and bought the new Colt Delt Elite. I trusted mine so much that I carried it several times with me Deer Hunting in WI this year, and loaded with Underwood 180 gr XTP @ 1350 FPS felt well armed. Now that Deer Hunting is over with I still carry both the Colt and my Kimber for when I take my dog for his 2 daily walks as my 9mm S&W Shield sits on the window sill.
Like I said before if I didn't like the gun I wouldn't own it!!!