Help myself and others decide. I'm hoping this poll will help anyone with a Glock 29 find a REAL 10mm load.
Thanks guys!
Still carry and like the Silver Tips 175gr round.... good bullet
Not the hottest but still up there, and great for second round / multi hits. ( shot placement and multi hits more important than power )
Then again, since they have been harder to find, I started using/practicing with the UW 165gr bonded... that's a hot load.
Working on good multi hits and may switch soon... bad part is they cost for a lot of practice.
Taking into account the availability of today's bullets in this listing, I would favor the 180 Gold Dot. Being a bonded bullet is why!
This leads to more uniform expansion, nearly 100% weight retention with near perfect penetration!
That being said, I like 200 XTPs for the extra weight, I wish Speer made a 200 grain or 220 grain Gold Dot for the reasons listed above. I actually have some 200 grain Gold Dot that came from pulled 40S&W contract ammo...
As with any ammo selection, bullet placement is everything to hitting vital structures for quickest incapacitation. It is then where the bullet does its work...
Shadow I've always liked gold Dots. I have 35 on me right now. Factory 124 +P in my wimpy P93DC 9mm. I got 50 rounds for $22.95.
But I watched tnoutdoors9 video of the UW Gold Dot and it came apart. Bullet failures. So that's why I'm looking at 200 grain loads.
https://youtu.be/sl_n_miLfbY
PS: I've emailed ATK and asked them to make us 10mm folks a 200 grain Gold Dot & 200 grain HST! We can pray and dream.
Carry what you can run an el presidente or bill drill with in a decent time, with acceptable accuracy. Even if that means you have to scale back to "watered down" ballistics for a while. One solid hit from watered down ammo will be better than ten bad shots.
That said, I carry 200 grain Noslers that I load to 1150 to 1200 fps from my Glock 20/EAA Witness. I have never checked them from the Glock 29, but expect they would make 1100 fps from it.
My letter to ATK:
Quote from: SLICKATK, will you PLEASE make us 10mm guys a 200 grain Gold Dot & 200 grain HST? You will sell more than you think! Even if it's just as components. Folks like Underwood, Buffalo Bore, and Double Tap will be happy to load them!
Think about it please. Look at all the new 10mm Pistols out now. Imagine how impressive it would be in Gel. Please consider this. The Gold Dot is my favorite BULLET! The HST is the new king and think about it if it was tough enough for a full 10mm load.
Thank you for your time.
Tic-Glock, I am for ever hopeful for a New 10mm/40 cal bullets, 200 grain bullet especially Gold Dot and even the HST would do us proud. However I don't see this happening and here is why.
So many law enforcement agencies have switched back to the 9mm pistols for several reasons...
First of which is economics, training ammo, guns and accessories are cheaper and fit their departmental budgets via contracts.
Smaller / lighter bullets and casings using less of the expensive metals like copper and lead and brass.
The basic firearms they carry are smaller, as they hang more and more items on their duty belts...
They are also tasked with bringing perpetrators to justice not killing them outright. Despite the all out attacks on them lately!
With so many using the 9mm these days and many agencies with contractual orders, we may see a lack of of other projectiles while contracts are being filled...
I'll talk to the owner of Bear Tooth bullets. I've been on his message board since 2004. Maybe we can get him to design us a jacketed hollow point for the big ten.
All four are outstanding options in my opinion. However, for use in a Glock 29 I'd place them in the following Underwood order:
1. 180gr Gold Dot
Nothing wrong with tnoutdoors 9 test... It didn't fail (even out of G 20).
Another from Glock 20 tested in clear gel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8Q6bEMJHpY
2. 180gr XTP - will work great from shorter Glock 29 barrel...
3. 200gr XTP - Works fantastic in Glock 20 and probably very well in shorter Glock 29 too. However, XTP's begin to offer limited expansion in 10mm much below 1050 fps.
4 200gr Nosler - will work well from shorter barrel...
Thanks for the replies fellas. Since this is my first 10,do you think I should practice/carry the 175 grain Critical Duty which averaged 1077 from a G29?
Quote from: Tic-Glock on November 28 2016 10:46:53 PM MST
Thanks for the replies fellas. Since this is my first 10,do you think I should practice/carry the 175 grain Critical Duty which averaged 1077 from a G29?
Sure why not?
You could practice with it and see how you like it. If you want something more powerful you could always switch.
Buffalo Bore 155gr Barnes
I'm stuck between 2 options. Underwood 180gr Gold Dot and Underwood 200gr XTP.
The results of Tnoutdoors9 test of the UW 180 Gold Dot, it almost "failed" but maybe the reduced velocity of the G29 will make it a perfect defense round.
The UW 200gr XTP, I haven't seen any gel tests of it, but the 200 grain is what the 10mm was meant for, but I have a kid in the house, so over penetration would be bad. But it is winter, so maybe the 200 won't have trouble with heavy winter clothes.
Someone help my indecisive ass.
First of all i would suggest shooting these prospective loads to see how you like then in the G29.
Also, don't forget about the Hornady 155 grain. This is still a 600 foot pound load.
Though I agree, the 180 grain XTP from Underwood would not expand as violently out of the shorter barreled G29. This might work out well for you.
But try them.
Just curious as to why no one considers the 135 grain in 10mm. It seems it's ballistics are above the old 357 mag 125 grain ballistics and that has an awesome track record. I have my 10s loaded with 135 grain and have one mag of 135 and another of 180 XTPs for backup.
I hear 135 and I think 9mm not 10mm. The 10 was designed around the concept of pushing 200 grain bullets at great speeds.
I think of the 135 in a 10mm like shooting a 110gr at a deer from a 30-378 Weatherby. The muzzle velocity will be super impressive, but all you're going to get is a nasty splash wound.
Quote from: txbadge on December 03 2016 12:18:14 PM MST
Just curious as to why no one considers the 135 grain in 10mm. It seems it's ballistics are above the old 357 mag 125 grain ballistics and that has an awesome track record. I have my 10s loaded with 135 grain and have one mag of 135 and another of 180 XTPs for backup.
I use the underwood 135gr for my G29, it is my EDC ammo, I do use 200gr hard cast and XTP's for woods carry in my G40, but for two legged targets the 135's are tough to beat. Very manageable recoil, 13 to 14 inches of penetration, massive wound channel. I personally prefer my EDC ammo not to penetrate much more than 13 inches.
JB
I know this wasn't mentioned, but the Underwood 165 grain Gold Dot is a very manageable round. It might work out well in the G29.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
Thanks 4949. I'm waiting on Hornady to email me back with info on the 200 XTP. Ideal expansion window, suggested MV, and is it a good bullet for SD.
Quote from: txbadge on December 03 2016 12:18:14 PM MST
Just curious as to why no one considers the 135 grain in 10mm. It seems it's ballistics are above the old 357 mag 125 grain ballistics and that has an awesome track record. I have my 10s loaded with 135 grain and have one mag of 135 and another of 180 XTPs for backup.
Some here like it.
I can't speak for everyone else but personal preference is to limit carry ammo to those that have been shown to penitrate a minimum of 12" in FBI spec ballistics gel,more preferrably with heavy clothing in front. I've never seen a 10mm 135gr. projectile consistently do it. YMMV, and not interested in starting another handgun hydrostatic shock debate.
One guys opinion: The 135gr. 10mm hit with a ton of energy but lack mass & sectional density to penitrate as deeply as My minimum.
The 125 grain 357 mag has a sectional density of .140. The 135 10mm has an SD of only .121. It doesn't penetrate nearly as well as the 125 grain 357.
A better comparison would be a 155 grain 10mm which has an SD of .138 and can be loaded to very similar ballistics. The Underwood 155 gr XTP runs 1500 fps and would pretty much duplicate the 125 grain 357 mag load, but in a .400 bullet.
The 135 grain 10mm is more like the 110 grain 357 loads.
The 155 XTP from Underwood seems like a great option actually.
Quote from: Tic-Glock on December 05 2016 04:49:15 PM MST
The 155 XTP from Underwood seems like a great option actually.
T Glock the 155 grain XTP from Underwood is super hot. At least it was...I don't know if they changed it at all.
Intercooler might have an idea on this.
I've been doing a lot of thinking, and I think to be more responsible, until I get the beast tamed, and used to the recoil, I'm going to carry the Georgia Arms 180 Gold Dot. They've been chronoed at 1180ish from a stock Glock 29. After a few months of practicing with hot loads (my new friend at Underwood says they are coming out with a new line of target ammo), then I'll move up to the UW 180 GD, 180 XTP or 200 XTP.
So do you guys think I'm being smart or overly cautious?
Just fired some Underwood 155xtp's today. First time shooting "full power" loads in my Delta Elite. Definitely more noticeable recoil(I really like it!!!) but wayyyy manageable. I need to find more creative targets than clay pigeons and gallon jugs. I guarantee they would put a hurting on 2 legged critters.
Thank you Shogun! I've heard recoil is a lot more noticeable in a 1911 platform vs a Glock. Not having shot both, I have no idea. The 155 XTP might just be the perfect SD round.
Out of curiosity, I figured free recoil with a 29 and UW 180 GD & a 33 with UW 125 GD.
29 = 10.51 ft/lbs
33 = 9.28 ft/lbs
There isn't THAT much difference in what I'm already used to shooting.
Quote from: Tic-Glock on December 07 2016 09:16:07 AM MST
Out of curiosity, I figured free recoil with a 29 and UW 180 GD & a 33 with UW 125 GD.
29 = 10.51 ft/lbs
33 = 9.28 ft/lbs
There isn't THAT much difference in what I'm already used to shooting.
I calculated the power factor for both and the G29 is around 216 and the G33 around 171(I subtracted 100 fps from both bullets). :) 10mm for the boom!
Very nice!
I just used the numbers off their site and not chrono numbers from each, so the free recoil would be less.
If you want to figure power factor for sure, Olgo got 1231 fps from a G29 with the UW 180.
Quote from: txbadge on December 03 2016 12:18:14 PM MST
Just curious as to why no one considers the 135 grain in 10mm. It seems it's ballistics are above the old 357 mag 125 grain ballistics and that has an awesome track record. I have my 10s loaded with 135 grain and have one mag of 135 and another of 180 XTPs for backup.
I like the 135g. BUT... I carry the 10(G29) thru the winter months as its larger and bulkier than I can conceal in a t shirt of summer. (But I prefer the gun) So its also a time when heavier cloths are worn by bad guys too. Under these conditions, I fear over expansion and under penetration.
BUT, I have dusted a couple coyotes from my mec tec using Nosler 135s and BLUE DOT powder at 1600+ fps and I can tell you expansion is VIOLENT!
I like a 155g in the 40 (HOT) and 165g+ in the 10MM with the lion share for carry going to 175/180g and hunting going 200gs.
CW
Watch this video on the Underwood 200 XTP from a G20. 16" of penetration, expansion to .680" through denim. I'm going to carry it in my 29. i suspect the 29 would penetrate a little more. It averages 1143 from a G29. 1261 from a G20.
[MEDIA=youtube]KFUAmIgR918[/MEDIA]
When it comes to a short barrel I like to go heavy because they hold their momentum longer, deeper and more weight retention.
Also I wouldn't go under 155 grains with the power of 10mm. This is from Uw I saved in my notes:
grn-veloc-ftlb-pentration
135-1600-767 *10.5"* (G29-1440-622)
155-1500-775 *12.5"*
165-1400-718 *12"*
180-1300-676 *17.75"*
200-1250-694 *16.125"*
As you can see, 180 and 200 has deeper penetrations.
I carry Uw 10mm 200 XTP in my G29.
I have some HPR 200gr XTP's and like them but was concerned they wouldn't expand enough from my G29. The listed muzzle velocity from their website is 1150 fps. If Underwood is 1250 I may need to get a few.
Underwoods 200gr XTP's average 1143 from a G29.
Olgo how is recoil?
Not bad at all. I shot the Uw 180 and it smarted my hand. The 200 didn't.
Blades, It'll expand at lower velocity and because of that they're late bloomers so it'll penetrate deep.
Quote from: Olgo on December 12 2016 08:12:08 PM MST
Not bad at all. I shot the Uw 180 and it smarted my hand. The 200 didn't.
Blades, It'll expand at lower velocity and because of that they're late bloomers so it'll penetrate deep.
Yep. beavertail ordered for DE.
Quote from: Overkill338 on December 12 2016 08:04:07 PM MST
Underwoods 200gr XTP's average 1143 from a G29.
Olgo how is recoil?
If the Underwoods lose 100fps, then the HPR's probably average 1050fps from the G29.
Quote from: Olgo on December 12 2016 08:12:08 PM MST
Not bad at all. I shot the Uw 180 and it smarted my hand. The 200 didn't.
Blades, It'll expand at lower velocity and because of that they're late bloomers so it'll penetrate deep.
But too low of a velocity and it will penetrate too much. Somewhere on here is a video and it didn't do well at too slow of a speed.
Blades this is what Hornady said about the 200 XTP.
Quote from: HornadyThe 200 gr. XTP has a working velocity range of 700-1200 fps. The bullet was designed around hunting and law enforcement. It would not give the full benefit of the FBI protocol for penetration due to the rapid expansion of the bullet under hydraulic shock.
The FBI standard of 12-18 inches of penetration wasn't put into place because normal size bad guys have chest cavitys 18" thick. It's incase bullets have to go from odd angles or pass through limbs to reach vitals. Even decent 9mm loads can penetrate too deeply with that thinking.
Quote from: Overkill338 on December 13 2016 10:51:45 PM MST
Blades this is what Hornady said about the 200 XTP.
Quote from: HornadyThe 200 gr. XTP has a working velocity range of 700-1200 fps. The bullet was designed around hunting and law enforcement. It would not give the full benefit of the FBI protocol for penetration due to the rapid expansion of the bullet under hydraulic shock.
The FBI standard of 12-18 inches of penetration wasn't put into place because normal size bad guys have chest cavitys 18" thick. It's incase bullets have to go from odd angles or pass through limbs to reach vitals. Even decent 9mm loads can penetrate too deeply with that thinking.
True. In the infamous Miama-Dade FBI shootout, the Winchester Silvertip in 9mm fired by an FBI agent penetrated Platt's bicep and entered his chest cavity. However, the bullet fell short of his heart, and Platt was able to inflict a good amount of damage on the FBI agents even after sustaining this hit.
A hit that WAS fatal, just not fatal quickly.
This is a great thread!
Quote from: Shotgun on December 14 2016 08:09:20 PM MST
This is a great thread!
Yes sir it is! It all started because I'm indecisive and couldn't choose a carry load for my new Glock 29. I have since settled on the Underwood 200 XTP, putting aside my love affair with Gold Dots
Yes It Is, and It All Started
Have you considered the 200 grain nosler? More expansion with these I believe. Good choice all the same.
Nosler, XTP and GD all are gonna be good performer. As long as they are 200 grains they are gonna be very serious problems out of the G29 to baddies.
Dave's 9mm stopped 1 inch shy of Platts heart. His lung and chest cavity was filled with 1.4 liters of blood during the Autopsy. He was able to fight on with a collapsed lung. Some say Dove and Grogan would have survived if that bullet went one more inch.
Quote from: cwlongshot on December 08 2016 11:14:00 AM MST
Quote from: txbadge on December 03 2016 12:18:14 PM MST
Just curious as to why no one considers the 135 grain in 10mm. It seems it's ballistics are above the old 357 mag 125 grain ballistics and that has an awesome track record. I have my 10s loaded with 135 grain and have one mag of 135 and another of 180 XTPs for backup.
I like the 135g. BUT... I carry the 10(G29) thru the winter months as its larger and bulkier than I can conceal in a t shirt of summer. (But I prefer the gun) So its also a time when heavier cloths are worn by bad guys too. Under these conditions, I fear over expansion and under penetration.
BUT, I have dusted a couple coyotes from my mec tec using Nosler 135s and BLUE DOT powder at 1600+ fps and I can tell you expansion is VIOLENT!
I like a 155g in the 40 (HOT) and 165g+ in the 10MM with the lion share for carry going to 175/180g and hunting going 200gs.
CW
All I use for carry here in FL are the Underwood 135gr's out of my 29sf. 200gr hard cast in the woods out of my g40.
JB
Quote from: jbaker30 on December 22 2016 02:18:04 PM MST
Quote from: cwlongshot on December 08 2016 11:14:00 AM MST
Quote from: txbadge on December 03 2016 12:18:14 PM MST
Just curious as to why no one considers the 135 grain in 10mm. It seems it's ballistics are above the old 357 mag 125 grain ballistics and that has an awesome track record. I have my 10s loaded with 135 grain and have one mag of 135 and another of 180 XTPs for backup.
I like the 135g. BUT... I carry the 10(G29) thru the winter months as its larger and bulkier than I can conceal in a t shirt of summer. (But I prefer the gun) So its also a time when heavier cloths are worn by bad guys too. Under these conditions, I fear over expansion and under penetration.
BUT, I have dusted a couple coyotes from my mec tec using Nosler 135s and BLUE DOT powder at 1600+ fps and I can tell you expansion is VIOLENT!
I like a 155g in the 40 (HOT) and 165g+ in the 10MM with the lion share for carry going to 175/180g and hunting going 200gs.
CW
All I use for carry here in FL are the Underwood 135gr's out of my 29sf. 200gr hard cast in the woods out of my g40.
JB
I have used the 200 Hornadys too... just dont like the "looks" of the bullet... I know that means squat.
The dont seem any tougher then the 180's and when thats the case I will take the higher velocity.
I like 165 GD for expansion but push it too much and it dosent want to hold together **.
CW
EDIT: **From a 16" barrel.
Recently I shot some Federal 180 grain trophy bonded JSP rounds those seem to hit pretty darn hard and stay fast. It seems that these would do decent penetration in just about anything. video on YouTube show them doing about 16 a half to 17 inches of penetration. This might not be a bad self-defense load. It carries I think about 650 foot pounds energy.
Anyone chrono the underwood 165 and the federal JSP out of a stock barrel Glock 29?
Ive been looking over this thread quite a bit ...being I have a 29 .. I picked UW 180gr Gold Dots & UW 200gr XTP .. they both seem to be great performers and both are pegging 10mm full potential.....
Im looking at Sig 180gr HP as my reduced SD load .. and its still produces much more energy than a 40 S&W from a 23
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Right now my Glock 29 is loaded with Underwood 180 gr. Delta Elite load 1240 fps, the Gold Dot version.