10mm-Auto

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: usrguns on September 25 2016 08:11:14 PM MDT

Title: 10MM Rimmed case
Post by: usrguns on September 25 2016 08:11:14 PM MDT
Has anyone ever attempted to get some rimmed cases for the 610, so you do not have to use moon clips????  I am new to this forum and would like to know your thoughts.
Title: Re: 10MM Rimmed case
Post by: tommac919 on September 25 2016 08:45:47 PM MDT
Thinking you would have to make them yourself....  41 mag cases maybe
Title: Re: 10MM Rimmed case
Post by: usrguns on September 25 2016 09:29:49 PM MDT
Actually have a custom ammunition friend who thought of this and is attempting to make some for me to try for him.  If they work he is going to make me a bunch to play with!!  He might also offer them to other 10mm shooters if there is a market for them.
Title: Re: 10MM Rimmed case
Post by: oldman10mm on September 26 2016 05:30:10 AM MDT
Since I shoot/reload both 10mm and 41M,a 10mm die will/does size down a 41M case to 10mm size except for the solid head area in the primer area. That section/area would have to be machined down. Once that's done,trim to length and it should work. I'll make one up and do a picture.
Title: Re: 10MM Rimmed case
Post by: BEEMER! on September 26 2016 07:02:15 AM MDT
I would think that the 41 case would have to be neck reamed once it is trimmed also.

Maybe not?

I dislike messing with moon clips also.  I just shot my 610 with out them and picked the cases out by hand.
Title: Re: 10MM Rimmed case
Post by: sqlbullet on September 26 2016 07:49:44 AM MDT
41 magnum base diameter is too big.  Not sure how you would size it all the way down with the rim in the way.

I would start with 30-30 brass if it was my project.  It would have to be inside reamed after trimming to length, and you may wish to cut the rim down a bit as the rim is huge on the 30-30.

But, otherwise it is a good match.  As you would expect since it is in the parent lineage of the 10mm.  30-30-> 30 Remington -> 10mm Auto.
Title: Re: 10MM Rimmed case
Post by: oldman10mm on September 26 2016 11:24:51 AM MDT
In reply I said I would do pic.

41M made into a 10mm. Trim length is that for 10mm. The lower head end that is solid and not sizeable with the 10mm die had to be spun in the drill press and a file was used to reduce that diameter.
41M on left,standard 10mm on right.

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh254/oldmanZ28/DSC_4797%20RampCampCCampAampA%20S_zpssojx5k5b.jpg) (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/oldmanZ28/media/DSC_4797%20RampCampCCampAampA%20S_zpssojx5k5b.jpg.html)

both inserted in a 610 as far as they would go in against the chamber shoulder,a moon clip would hold the 10mm out a little further by a few thousants. the 41M doesn't go in far enough to seat against the rim so it would have to be trimmed slightly shorter than a 10mm trim length. both would go in a little further once a crimp was applied with a finished cartridge.

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh254/oldmanZ28/DSC_4798%20CCampCampAampA%20S_zpsneztzvfq.jpg) (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/oldmanZ28/media/DSC_4798%20CCampCampAampA%20S_zpsneztzvfq.jpg.html)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh254/oldmanZ28/DSC_4799%20CCampCampAampA%20S_zpsjkw10voy.jpg) (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/oldmanZ28/media/DSC_4799%20CCampCampAampA%20S_zpsjkw10voy.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 10MM Rimmed case
Post by: Pinsnscrews on October 07 2016 12:27:10 PM MDT
Nice work! Thanks for taking the time to do that.
Title: Re: 10MM Rimmed case
Post by: oldman10mm on October 08 2016 04:07:09 PM MDT
Also,added note,measuring from rim down to bottom solid head area,the modified 41M case has 7% less capacity than the 10mm case. So without going to a slightly faster burn rate powder,velocities would be slower. But for reduced power target loads,it would be nice to insert cartridges as a normal revolver,even though for competition events,removing a moon clip full of spent cartridges and reloading with a full moon clip of ammo will always be faster.
Potentially,shorten the 41M even more for a rimmed 40S&W case.
Sometime in the future,I'll be making 12 to simulate 10mm and 12 to simulate 40S&W,probably not till late winter and then I'll post back.
Title: Re: 10MM Rimmed case
Post by: happy trails on October 24 2016 09:14:05 AM MDT
" He might also offer them to other 10mm shooters if there is a market for them."

I'd be interested in such a product.
Title: Re: 10MM Rimmed case
Post by: oldman10mm on October 26 2016 03:36:19 PM MDT
Tried a different parent case as suggested in post#6,a 30-30.
Much easier,just required a tube cutter cut at the proper dimension.

10mm,41Mag,30-30

trimmed case length a little more compared to previous post so they would seat against cylinder.
Rim diameter on the 30-30 is virtually the same as the 41m. Since the 610 is an N frame and is used for 45 LC,rim diameters will not contact each other.

wall thickness for the 10mm and 41Mag is .009",30-30 is .012". Have to see if a bulge from seated bullet will cause a problem

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: 10MM Rimmed case
Post by: oldman10mm on March 20 2021 03:02:14 PM MDT
Finally acquired a box of Herters 401 Powermag ammo at today's Akron show, so now this project from about 5 years ago can move forward.
I'll start by pulling apart one of them, de-prime and throw the brass in the wet tumbler, run it thru the 10mm sizer and trim length to 10mm spec.
I'll report as info is acquired.

(https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech.com-vbulletin/1200x600/80-dsc_1643_a_cc_c2x1_aa_cc_a_s_95d665ebf80d2eb8666b8e96bdb9effc77ffb688.jpg)
Title: Re: 10MM Rimmed case
Post by: The_Shadow on March 20 2021 03:21:18 PM MDT
Randy Shelley made some rimmed 10mm magnum cases (not what parent case was)

(https://s20.postimg.cc/g4ve9pp8d/made_9x25_Dillon_9_X30_rimmed_40_caliber_zpsx4fbcdkp.jpg)

(https://s20.postimg.cc/pcnmqf40d/Ruger_38-40_10mm_convertible_zpsfgre8vod.jpg)
Title: Re: 10MM Rimmed case
Post by: oldman10mm on March 25 2021 07:56:13 AM MDT
Disassembled 10 of them, ran them thru a 10mm sizer die, left 2 of them at original length, trimmed 8 to length. Of those 8, one used for a dummy round (no powder or primer) to assess visual, one used for a cutaway to assess internal visuals, and 6 to be used in 610 for load testing.
(https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech.com-vbulletin/800x640/80-dsc_1657_a_cc_c5x4_a_s_aeab7577fe7bf77464d14a26e25d4cb437fb0882.jpg)
Title: Re: 10MM Rimmed case
Post by: oldman10mm on March 25 2021 09:32:20 AM MDT
The 401 Mags contained a 200gr LRN bullet and 11.0grs of powder. Being that the ammo was made in Sweden, I wouldn't guess what the powder was.
Title: Re: 10MM Rimmed case
Post by: The_Shadow on March 25 2021 09:50:26 AM MDT
oldman10mm, post or send me a good picture of the powder...I'll compare it to my files to see...
Title: Re: 10MM Rimmed case
Post by: oldman10mm on March 25 2021 11:23:01 AM MDT
401 Mag powder on the left in SS tray, SR4756 on the right in plastic cap.
Larger 'kernel' than SR4756. The 11.0gr load I found in them corresponds exactly with my 10mm 'top end' loads of SR4756 with 155gr bullet.
Now their bullet is heavier at 200gr (weighed) so it should be a slower powder than SR4756.
(https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech.com-vbulletin/750x500/80-dsc_1659_a_cc_c3x2_a_s_5da1d0444e4278bc1b16176cd3f0930b077d503e.jpg)
Title: Re: 10MM Rimmed case
Post by: The_Shadow on March 25 2021 12:30:05 PM MDT
Australian Powder AD70N comes to mind

(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-dtxho6ylmq/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/2829/1719/AP70N__82089.1566219464.jpg?c=2)

I have some load data for this powder but not for the 401 Power Mag.  Data for the 41 Mag shows less powder than what you measured with 200 grain bullets.
Title: Re: 10MM Rimmed case
Post by: Troutramp on March 26 2021 05:28:02 PM MDT
Rcc brass in Texas will manufacture rimmed 10mm and rimmed 10mm mag. Found them while looking for 401 powermag brass.
Kinda pricey talked to Jeff the owner and he will do small batches of anything you want.
Title: Re: 10MM Rimmed case
Post by: oldman10mm on March 27 2021 06:05:54 AM MDT
Looked at RCC Brass, interesting site. $3 - $5 (each) typical price for custom brass. The box of Herters 401 Mag ammo I picked up at the Akron show was $40 for the box of 50. He only wanted $40 as for as long as he has had it, he never had anybody ask for it. He was glad to get rid of it.
Title: Re: 10MM Rimmed case
Post by: Troutramp on March 27 2021 11:03:17 AM MDT
He uses a proprietary machining process rather than the typical draw process so they will supposedly hold up longer.
Like I said though they are pricey. He is also 90 day lead time.
Title: Re: 10MM Rimmed case
Post by: oldman10mm on April 07 2021 07:51:25 AM MDT
Did my full write-up here

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/647533-making-10mm-rimmed-brass-use-610-a.html#post141118897