I've loved these TAC-XP bullets for maybe a decade, ever since I loaded them in 45GAPs. The last few weeks I've been developing loads with the 140g. version in 40S&W for my S&W M&P and then bought a Glock 20.4. I've been very happy with the performance of Federal 180g. HST factory loads in the 40, but having so few (as in maybe not any) excellent bullets in factory 10mm cartridges, I decided to use the TAC-XPs in both these cartridges. My goal is about 1100FPS with the 140 in the 40 and the 155 in the 10.
Just received the 155g. 'XPs and assembled some testing rounds with HS-6, Universal, and tomorrow, A7, all low-muzzle-flash powders.
The 'XPs are long for their weight, having no lead in them.
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k220/jeffreybehr/Shooting%20stuff/Glock%2020%20Gen4/Two%20cartridges%20amp%203%20bullets%20PS_2000w_zpssazj3z8h.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/jeffreybehr/media/Shooting%20stuff/Glock%2020%20Gen4/Two%20cartridges%20amp%203%20bullets%20PS_2000w_zpssazj3z8h.jpg.html)
The 155 is 0.733" (18.61mm) long, the 140 0.693" (17.37mm), and the Montana Gold 180g. HP 0.620" (15.74mm). I intended to use A9 in my workups but it's too bulky for the 155 in the 10, so #7 it'll be. I'm using new Star-Line nickled cases in both calibers with Winchester WLPs in the 10 and CCI 500s in the 40.
I already have loads in the 40 with HS-6 or Universal running at about 1100fPS, and I hope to see velocities like that on Wed. when I get the Big10 to Ben Avery Shooting Facility. If the 10mm loads prove good, I'll post details.
FWIW the 40 pictured is a dummy round assembled with an ugly case to test OAL.
Jeffrey, this is some I worked up with the 140's
TAC-XP FB 140 grain pn# 40005 10mm/40S&W 0.400"
10.5 grain Blue Dot @ 1178 fps entered the 4th jug of water barely hanging on the entrance hole. Classic opened petals expanded to 0.7495". Primer slightly flattened.
12.6 grains of AA#9 (had to adjust powder shoving the bullet back out 1.270")(Totally compressed @ 12.6 gr.) @ 1181 fps, Primer was totally flattened to the edges. It penetrated 5" of sandy dirt and the bullet failed to open, partially folded in on itself. Case expanded to 0.4280"
10.7 grains of AA#7 @ 1112 fps three jugs inside 3rd jug of water. Petals opened as designed. Primer badly flattened. Case expanded to 0.4280"
8.2 grains of Long Shot @ 1247 fps entered the 4th Jug of water. Petals opened as designed. Classic opened petals expanded to 0.7915". Primer slightly flattened. Case expanded to 0.4275"
8.0 grains of Power Pistol @ 1220 fps entered the 4th Jug of water. Petals opened as designed. Classic opened petals expanded to 0.7655". Primer slightly flattened. Case expanded to 0.4280"
Winchester cases
Winchester LP primers
COAL of 1.255"
Tested from the S&W 1006 5" barrel.
I was not expecting the highest performance obtainable (but should be up there pretty good) but looking for the difference of what these same length, 140 grain bullets do as compared to the speeds from the 200 grain XTP's with similar full loadings. 10.5gr Blue Dot case 0.4275", 12.6gr AA#9 case 0.4280"
I would like to test these with Alliant BE-86 powder.
However the wildest loading I ever saw was Buffalo Bore with the 155's, that info can be seen here: http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo-pull-downs/buffalo-bore-barnes-155gr-tac-xp-pull-down/ (http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo-pull-downs/buffalo-bore-barnes-155gr-tac-xp-pull-down/)
As indicated in a thread in the Pistols section, I bought this week a new Tanfoglio Witness Polymer Full Size (hereafter 'WP') pistol in 10mm. My goal in load development for personal defense is getting the TAC-XP155 to around 1100FPS (= subsonic) at 10' average distance, from my carry pistol. I use only known-low-muzzle-flash powders*. All loads in StarLine new nickled cases, WLP primers, TAC-XP 155s, OAL 1.26", ambient temp c. 98dF.
8.0g. HS-6, 1115FPS
5.8g. Universal, 1086FPS
9.5g. A7, 1125FPS
Where velocities exceed 1100FPS, I'll restart testing at lower powder charges.
Initial indications are that the WP is more accurate than my Glock 20.4 and 40S&W-cal. S&W M&P full size and that it shoots about 1" low and 1" right at 10 yards; I did NOT move the rear sight.
* Prior research shows Universal, HS-6, A7, A9, and SR4756 to produce low muzzle flash, while A5, 800X, and Longshot produce high muzzle flash.
See http://s89.photobucket.com/user/jeffreybehr/library/Muzzleflash?sort=3&page=1
You want to reduce a 1,115 fps load 15 fps?
Got out to Ben Avery Shooting Facility again this aft. and shot the next batches of tests. Finalists are, all shot with my 4.5"-barrel Witness Polymer FS, chrono at 10'-average distance, temp. about 100dF, and all in new StarLine nickled cases and with Winchester WLPs and Barnes TAC-XP 155g. all-copper bullet seated to OAL of c. 1.27" (which is a little too long), and all achieving velocities in the 109nFPS:
HS-6, 8.0g.
A7, 9.4g., and
Universal, 6.0g.
Understand that my goal is to create a 100%-reliable personal-defense round using the 155g. all-copper Barnes TAC-XP bullet* traveling at about 1100FPS.
Today I remembered to bring my inexpensive plastic pistol rest and managed to shoot a bunch of the best-in-my-life 5-shot groups at 10 yards, one of them a bughole**.
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k220/jeffreybehr/Shooting%20stuff/Tagfolio%20Witness%20Polymer%20Full%20Size/Three%20small%20groups_1500w_zpstsffpfua.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/jeffreybehr/media/Shooting%20stuff/Tagfolio%20Witness%20Polymer%20Full%20Size/Three%20small%20groups_1500w_zpstsffpfua.jpg.html)
Numbers 23 and 13 are with HS-6 while 28 is with A7. These groups are about 1/2" to 1-1/2" low.
* Generally, the world's best (at expanding reliably whatever they're shot into or thru and also retaining 100% of their weight) personal-defense bullet, IMO of course, and I've got lots of pics to document results.
** = one ragged hole. These groups are better than I've EVER shot with any of about a dozen Glocks and three S&W M&Ps.
The winner is charged with 7.9g. of HS-6 for a velocity (at an average distance of 10') of c. 1100FPS. The three 5-shot groups with HS-6 were the smallest of the nine I fired today. It was windier today so all groups were a bit bigger than yesterday's, but the three smallest of the nine were produced by this HS-6 load and measured 1-3/8" (two) and 1-1/4". The 45 cartridges I fired today were 100% perfectly reliable, but tonite I'm loading a bunch of (production) cartridges for reliability testing tomorrow. Might even take some waterjugs and cloth with me to test expansion.
The rounds sure are puuuurdy! :D ;D ;) :D
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k220/jeffreybehr/Shooting%20stuff/Tagfolio%20Witness%20Polymer%20Full%20Size/Four%20cartridges%20amp%20two%20TAC-XP%20155s_1800w_zps5wzjmia4.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/jeffreybehr/media/Shooting%20stuff/Tagfolio%20Witness%20Polymer%20Full%20Size/Four%20cartridges%20amp%20two%20TAC-XP%20155s_1800w_zps5wzjmia4.jpg.html)
Those hp's look big enough to drive a truck into. Very nice! I'm looking forward to the expansion testing.
I have a LOT of experience with non-lead bullets in most common (and some uncommon) calibers. Living in the CA condor range, it's a matter of necessity for hunting since 2008. From what I gather in your posts, what you want with this/these bullets is far from ideal. I like the Tac-XP bullets, but the 155 gr. 10/.40 at ~1100 FPS (MV) might as well be a solid FP or RN. They do not expand reliably at that velocity, at distance. The XPB did well, but they are discontinued in this caliber. The Tac-XP is an excellent bullet for penetrating barriers (denim, plywood, hardwood, auto safety glass, newsprint, in combination and all-inclusive), but fall flat at low velocity, especially when barriers are a factor. They penetrate common barrier materials essentially unmolested, but barriers, including 4-layer denim, decreases velocity enough to prevent expansion in water below a MV of 1200 FPS at 20'. For example, my son took a large hog from about 20 yds with his .40SW Mechtech carbine (which runs similar velocities to typical 10mm pistols (incidentally with HS-6). The neck shots were through-through, with no indication of any expansion. No barriers, all flesh (only one hit bone and deflected and tumbled, unchanged). I load my 10mm hunting round at ~1500 FPS (5.2-6.5" barrel), and 1900 FPS for the .38-40 (6.5" barrel). They work at these velocities. A similar hog taken with a MV of 1500 FPS from my 10mm pistol was quite impressive. with through-through penetration, but explosive expansion and untraceable wound channel. Less than a MV of about 1300 FPS (POI) is a waste of the bullet. The bullets have a poor BC/DC, meaning, the performance decreases exponentially as distance increases. If you are loading personal defense rounds (subjective discussion, for a few reasons), especially for carry in public, please consider a more effective option.
Wouldn't a XTP work well at those velocities?
Quote from: Benchrst on July 04 2016 04:47:18 PM MDT
Wouldn't a XTP work well at those velocities?
Absolutely! As well as a number of others. All-copper bullets are a handicap in small capacity cartridges, although they can excel in larger capacity rounds. The 155 gr. Barnes Tac-XP is a brute in the .38-40, as is the 180 gr. XPB in the .41M. The .40 Super may be a worthy candidate, but I haven't tried them, yet. Case capacity is key, and even the mighty 10mm doesn't have it.
Shot those 1100FPS loads today into three series of 1-gallon waterjugs. Arranged front-to-back and pushed together, each jug is 6" front to back. I shoot from 10 feet from the face of the first jug. I shoot two variations, one with two layers of denim taped to the first jug and another with those layers as the front and rear of a sandwich containing four layers of terry towel, all totaling 6 layers, simulating heavy clothing.
I am thrilled with the results; THIS is my EDC round in the Tanfoglio Witness Poly.
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k220/jeffreybehr/Shooting%20stuff/Tagfolio%20Witness%20Polymer%20Full%20Size/Three%20expanded%20TAC-XP155s%20tops_2000w_zpspebmfjpm.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/jeffreybehr/media/Shooting%20stuff/Tagfolio%20Witness%20Polymer%20Full%20Size/Three%20expanded%20TAC-XP155s%20tops_2000w_zpspebmfjpm.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k220/jeffreybehr/Shooting%20stuff/Tagfolio%20Witness%20Polymer%20Full%20Size/Three%20expanded%20TAC-XP155s%20bottoms_2000w_zpszimxvuhb.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/jeffreybehr/media/Shooting%20stuff/Tagfolio%20Witness%20Polymer%20Full%20Size/Three%20expanded%20TAC-XP155s%20bottoms_2000w_zpszimxvuhb.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k220/jeffreybehr/Shooting%20stuff/Tagfolio%20Witness%20Polymer%20Full%20Size/Three%20expanded%20TAC-XP155s%20sides_2000w_zpsshzsdpna.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/jeffreybehr/media/Shooting%20stuff/Tagfolio%20Witness%20Polymer%20Full%20Size/Three%20expanded%20TAC-XP155s%20sides_2000w_zpsshzsdpna.jpg.html)
The left-hand bullet was shot thru the 2 layers, and each of the right-hand pair was shot thru its own 6-layer bundle. Each bullet penetrated the same, cracking the rear wall of the third jug, penetrating 18". Each bullet weighed within 1/2 grain of 155g; that's my definition of 100% retention. Each bullet's 'diameter' was close enough to 0.75" to call them all 3/4" diameter.
AFTER I left the house this aft., I received boxes of the SIGSauer 180g. V-Crown JHPs and Hornady Critical Duty 175Flex-Locks; I'll be testing velocity and expansion of those soon.
Thanks again Jeffrey for your report. Yes there is no doubt that the Barnes bullet is a great design and they work quite well. The good thing is they open exactly as they are suppose to, unless they encounter a hard object like bone. Then the tend to perform like a FMJ or hard cast.
Very nice. I am very impressed that you were able to do that at ~1100 fps. I am going to get some of those for more testing.