I'm new to the 10mm club and just acquired a RIA 1911 chambered in 10mm with a 6" match barrel. I'm working on some loads with AA#5, #7 and #9.
I'm shooting mostly 165 and 180 gr HP and FP plated bullets (Rainier and Berry's) and a local guy will be casting me some 180 gr FP bullets with a conical shape like the Berry's FP's. My main interest is shooting longer distances--100+ yds at silhouettes or gongs rather than paper. (So far in testing loads at 25/50 yards I've found #9 to be the most accurate at 12.5-13.5 gr over the 180 HP plated bullets while 11-11.5 gr #7 works pretty well for the 165 gr bullets).
Does anybody have any suggestions for the 180 gr cast or plated FP plated bullets? Does the 6" barrel figure into the equation?
mahalo nui loa
I have loaded up to 14.7 grains of #9 behind Lee 175gr SWC bullets. The bullets were cast of isotope lead and air cooled. BHN was measured at about 12. I did not do controlled accuracy testing. Minute or coke can/clay pigeon only.
I would start with the same load you are using for the plated bullets.
I agree with starting with what is working with plated. Reduce 5% and rework. It would be best if your bullet caster can be sure to size the bullets 1/1000 over bore diameter.
Or powdercoat them for you, or send them to you un-lubed and you powder coat and size.
Appreciate the feedback. I just called Western Powders and the guy recommended #5 with a cast lead bullet. Will give it a try and come back to everyone. Was wondering if anyone had any experience with it...
Quote from: Kaumheimer on May 03 2016 07:10:28 PM MDT
Appreciate the feedback. I just called Western Powders and the guy recommended #5 with a cast lead bullet. Will give it a try and come back to everyone. Was wondering if anyone had any experience with it...
Plenty of experience with plated, but not cast. I like the powder for modest velocities ("FBI Load"). 8.0 under a 180 plated is great. A cast load may use slightly less powder for the same velocity. It meters very well, burns clean, and has reasonable case fill. It is not as efficient as others in the same burn speed family. Probably the only demerit.
This might help out some
(http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/AccurateArms10mm121_zps532817c3.jpg)
(http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/AccurateArms10mm122_zpsaeb8eff2.jpg)
(http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/AccurateArms10mm123_zps4f54ecb4.jpg)
Appreciate everyone's input.
FWIW I can keep people posted on what I come up with in the load testing. I'm particularly interested in what kind of luck people have had with 6" 1911s and Western Powder products...As mentioned I have #9, #5 and #7.
#9 is an absolute known quantity with 180gr and up, #7 with 165s and down.
My limited testing of #5 suggests it's suited for more modest velocities.
IMHO #7 is decent plinking for 180gr, but not great. Can't be loaded quite hot enough for my AR. BUT as stated I loaded some hot 155gr and it packed a punch.
the only problem I have had with AA #9 in the 10mm is when I seat a hollow pt. bullet. no problems at all with plated or FMJ bullets. that powder didn't compress very well and the bullet noses were getting
deformed and crushed closed. the hole in a 180 gr XTP looked like the hollow pt. of a 22LR! Gold Dots have a big enough hole to begin with so they didn't look too bad. (still smaller than originally) I couldn't seat the bullet any farther out or they hung up in the mag. I went nuts fiddling with my seating die's adjustment. I even drilled & tapped the seating plug so I could thread a long machine screw to go into the hollow point and help seat the bullet and keep the hollow point from being squished closed. finally I switched to Blue Dot powder and never had a problem. its still a compressed load but Blue Dot compresses much better than AA #9.
Well, 13.4gr (over book) does get a 200gr XTP going 1,260.
Not bad for a plastic autoloader ;D
I have the older AA#9 that was pure (MicroBeads) and couldn't get but 12.6 grains under the 200XTP and it would push the bullet back out from 1.2500", and crush the bullet's nose slightly. The newer AA#9 mostly flatten ball is a little better for getting more in the case.
1.260 and the nose is a bit closed up :))
(http://webcity.net/benchrest/misc/200XTP_13.4_AA7_CompressedNose.jpg)
Good input. So here's an academic query I have:
Do any of you have a light, target load with say a 180 gr bullet that I could try out with maybe #7 or #5 that doesn't have the kind of recoil usually associated with the 10mm?
In other words, something that approximates the classic "bullseye" load that you can get with a .45 (3.9 gr BE) over a 185 gr swc bullet that is accurate as hell but not punishing in the least? Or...am I asking for too much given that this round is more like a magnum?
mahalo
I've run 180gr plated with 6.1 of Bullseye, 6.0 of 231, 6.2 of Universal...
All were accurate for me (1 - 2" groups @ 20 yards) and they were pretty light (around 1,000 fps).
T^he reason they use faster burn rate powders is you use small amounts that develop enough pressure to allow a cleaner burn and still cycle the slide...in some guns they actually use lighter recoil springs to help this with lighter charge weights.
AA#7 my not burn as clean using lighter charge weights. AA#5 would be a better choice and you could drop down to 40S&W charge weights to help with recoil management.
Here are the 40S&W loadings for AA#5 using a 180 bullet (the velocities and pressures will be lower in the 10mm loading due to more case capacity)
No.5 6.3 grains @ 873 fps
No.5 7.0 grains @ 992 fps 35,000 psi Major
Thanks Shadow, I'm going to give #5 a try with some light loads. I'm really accustomed to the Bullseye scenario. Now that I'm hooked on a 6" 1911 10mm my next step (if I can figure out a load) is a 5" model that I can shoot like a milder mannered .45, if that makes sense...
Quote from: Kaumheimer on May 04 2016 09:20:32 PM MDT
Good input. So here's an academic query I have:
Do any of you have a light, target load with say a 180 gr bullet that I could try out with maybe #7 or #5 that doesn't have the kind of recoil usually associated with the 10mm?
In other words, something that approximates the classic "bullseye" load that you can get with a .45 (3.9 gr BE) over a 185 gr swc bullet that is accurate as hell but not punishing in the least? Or...am I asking for too much given that this round is more like a magnum?
mahalo
Just load with the book starting loads to even passed mid load with #7 and the recoil is nothing. Really light.
Why not just shoot 9/40/45?
One of the big draws of magnum calibers like 357, 41, 44 and 10mm is the ability to download for practice, pest control, teaching, etc.
Quote from: sqlbullet on May 05 2016 08:05:21 AM MDT
One of the big draws of magnum calibers like 357, 41, 44 and 10mm is the ability to download for practice, pest control, teaching, etc.
Good point. Too much coffee and stuck on factory light 10mm loads syndrome.
I hear you. I see the purpose and load myself plenty of light stuff. For some reason my 9 year old daughter doesn't like shooting nuclear loads in the Glock 29 (but she can pretty darn well).
But it is frustrating to go to the LGS and not find one 10mm level load in the 10mm ammo.
Quote from: Kaumheimer on May 04 2016 09:20:32 PM MDT
Good input. So here's an academic query I have:
Do any of you have a light, target load with say a 180 gr bullet that I could try out with maybe #7 or #5 that doesn't have the kind of recoil usually associated with the 10mm?
In other words, something that approximates the classic "bullseye" load that you can get with a .45 (3.9 gr BE) over a 185 gr swc bullet that is accurate as hell but not punishing in the least? Or...am I asking for too much given that this round is more like a magnum?
mahalo
That's easy enough, with either powder. Perhaps a typical FBI load, so to speak. For AA5, start about 8 gr. and work up until it cycles reliably, with a max of about 9.2 gr. (1215 FPS at maximum pressure). For AA7, Do the same with 10-12 gr. The 180 gr. Gold Dot with 12.2 gr. AA7 moves at about 1300 FPS, at maximum pressure, and a full case at 1.260", in a stock G20.
Quote from: Benchrst on May 04 2016 08:45:17 PM MDT
1.260 and the nose is a bit closed up :))
(http://webcity.net/benchrest/misc/200XTP_13.4_AA7_CompressedNose.jpg)
What you need to do is make a seating stem to fit the bullet. It's easy to do on a lathe but I modded mine by chucking it up in a hand drill, clamped in my bench vise. re-contoured the seating stem using modded drill bits, needle files and stones so it contacts the ogive of the bullet rather than the side of the nose.
Enjoy that RIA Pro 6". I know mine has got to be in the top three 1911's I've ever owned. You normally have to pay double for that level of accuracy and reliability.
May not be pretty but it sure got it where it counts.
Jeff
If your charge is so compressed it is deforming the bullet to that level, it's very wrong. Either pre-compress the charge (using something other than the bullet), or change the charge. I use compressed charges a lot for some high performance rounds, but it should never deform the bullet. Also consider that when the bullet is deformed to that level, so is the case wall. There's also a likelihood of bullet rebound, meaning that if the bullet is seated under pressure, that it can/will creep back out in the magazine during firing/cycling. Reshaping/redesigning the bullet in this manner can lead to unpredictable results, not only in pressure levels, but also in terminal performance.
I appreciate the informative reply, and am cognizant of all you're saying.
The load that produced the collapsed nose was part of a ladder, and the final OAL had to be achieved in 'steps' - this is not a normal practice.
I shoot a lot of 175 gr LEE swc. They usually weigh about 180grains. I use a fast pistol powder, in my case Promo and build up the load till it cycles my G20 reliably Then add .2 grains more. Yes I have the full power loads but would rather enjoy the accuracy and light recoil of my homebrew load.
I would be cautious about using the technique with FMJ.
As with all hand loading you are on your own if you get a double charge or other issues. I set all my primers one at a time in a hand press and only do the charging and bullet seating in my progressive press.
If you want a seriously soft shooting load, go with an even quicker burning powder under a 200 grain bullet. My latest IDPA load is a 200 over about 4.5 grains of 452AA (the predecessor of and near equivalent to WST). Way soft shooting in the big 20. 100% function with the stock RSA.
I like this load so much that I'm getting ready to order a 200 gr mold from LBT now that I have a good source of lead. These will be Hi-Tek coated.
Well I just ordered an 8 pound keg of Longshot. I will get another keg of something else in a week or two.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
FWIW, it was suggested that I try the FBI load. Well I did so with a Berry's 165 FP. Fairly consistent except for one flyer at 25 yards with a notched type rest on the bench. Not sure if it was luck or a great load. It was not as accurate at 50, or perhaps I didn't do as good a job pulling the trigger. Looks promising for this bullet.
BTW, the caption on the jpeg says HP but it was definitely FP. Mea culpa...
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Just got a bunch of bullets in attached photo. It's 180 gr that a local guy cast for me. I am starting with some AA#5 loads (7.4 gr and 7.7 gr). I also am taking a cue from this story which had some interesting ideas for AA#7 loads:
http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt10mm.htm
Will see how this works. I've got plenty of bullets so I'm hoping they'll be accurate at 100 yards. Otherwise I'll have to give them away...
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Nice Bullet...it should feed well and fly straight. What is the Diameter? What gun are you going to shoot from?
No.5 7.5 gr. @ 1030 fps
No.5 8.3 gr. @ 1171 fps 35,800 psi
No.7 9.2 gr. @ 1032 fps
No.7 10.2 gr. @ 1173 fps 34,500 psi
Thanks Shadow...looks to be .401...I plan to shoot it from a 6" RIA Match Ultra...
http://armscor.com/firearms/pro-series/pro-match-ultra-6-10mm/