First I don't know if this is the best section to post this question as it does not directly involve hunting.
I am going to visit a friend this weekend to help cut and split a number of trees down on his property and he called today to let me know that his neighbor spotted a bear today. I am wondering what 10mm load would make for good bear medicine should a critter decide that I look tasty while cutting and splitting firewood.
My normal carry load is underwood 180gr gold dots. I also have on hand some underwood 180gr FMJ loads.
Would either of these be appropriate or should I:
1) Scour the local shops hoping to find a different load.
2) Be resigned to keep my 12ga close by with 3 inch slugs
Thanks in advance for any and all replies.
are you in Grizzly bear country? I doubt a black bear would come anywhere near you if you are cutting and splitting wood. that being said, for a heavy bodied animal like a bear or big hog, you want penetration. I would choose a full power 200gr fmj or cast bullet.
I agree. 200-220 grain non-expanding bullet loaded heavy. And a shotgun or howitzer if available. Assuming Grizzly country.
IMO; unless your going to be in Grizzly (Brown Bear) country, Underwood 180gr Gold Dot & 180gr FMJ (TMJ) should be more than sufficient. If we're talking Black Bear area; don't have any qualms about roaming the woods with the ammunition options you already own. 15+1 of either of those would serve as a hell of a deterrent to a Black Bear sized predator.
Different story if we're talking Griz country. In that situation, big time nod to the heavier hardcast choices previously mentioned or a 44 mag (or better).
Regards.
Thanks for the replies. I in in whatcom county, washington. so I do not believe this is grizzly country. I apologize for failing to specify that the likely species is black bear.
I personally have never had a close encounter with a bear. I have be face to face with other angry critters of the feline and canine persuasions but I admit I know nothing about bears.
It is good to hear that black bears are not normally inclined to rampage about a couple of guys running chainsaws cutting downed trees for firewood.
I will do some checking around my LGS's and see if any of them happen to have some 200+ gr ammo in stock. In the rather likely case that they don't have anything available I will keep the witness on my hip with the underwood 180 solids as plan B and make sure I keep my 870 within as easy reach as practical as plan A.
I honestly hope I am just being over concerned about nothing and my weekend does not go pear shaped on me.
Thanks again for the responses gentleman.
As said, it all depends on the bear. 10mm against a brown bear is nothing more than a deterrent, regardless of the cartridge. Few handguns, short of the big magnums, are better than spray. Black bear are different and size matters (the bear's and the bullets). .40SW with 180 gr. Black Talon can dispatch 350-ish pound black bear. Done it twice out of necessity. 3 rounds in the neck and shoulder (Mozambique-like, if you will). Larger than that, I dunno. .41 and .44 Magnum will stop the 500+ pounders (been there, done that). The 10mm is NOT comparable to .41M, I don't care what anyone says (10mm gets about 1/2 way to 265 gr. @ 1430 FPS). The 180 gr. Underwood you have will about as effective as any 10mm for defensive shooting black bear. They'll penetrate as well as any hardcast, and the bullet won't matter if you miss vitals. Also consider, if you haven't shot that ammo in your pistol before, it may not run. Some pistols don't like the big, flat-nose bullets. Use a pistol to buy time to get the 12 ga, which is what you need. Time. It helps if you have a plan, but the bear has no intention to play by your plan. Chances are, you won't see a bear. If you do, he'll likely scatter before you can break leather. Also, having a yappy dog around helps, both as an alarm, and a deterrent.
Thank you for the information DM. Since it appears you have some first hand experience in dealing with bears i have a couple of questions. what would the best area to target to stop an angry bear? and would there be any preference between an 1 1/8 oz lead slug or a 7/8 oz copper slug from a 12 ga?
I realize that I am probably making much ado about nothing but I believe in the 7 P's so I am hoping to learn all that I can just in case the worst happens
As a side note I am comfortable with the reliability of the underwood ammo in my witness. I have run close to 500 rds through it with this load in practice and the only malfunction I ever had is the first time i shot it after my elbow got tore up last year and I limp wristed the gun due to not being fully rehabbed from the injury. Thankfully since I have healed it has been back to flawless function :)
Quote from: fernpatch on April 28 2016 02:35:53 PM MDT
best area to target to stop an angry bear?
Knees.
Once you shoot your friend in the knees he won't be able to run and the bear will stop at him.
Quote from: fernpatch on April 28 2016 02:35:53 PM MDT
Thank you for the information DM. Since it appears you have some first hand experience in dealing with bears i have a couple of questions. what would the best area to target to stop an angry bear? and would there be any preference between an 1 1/8 oz lead slug or a 7/8 oz copper slug from a 12 ga?
I realize that I am probably making much ado about nothing but I believe in the 7 P's so I am hoping to learn all that I can just in case the worst happens
As a side note I am comfortable with the reliability of the underwood ammo in my witness. I have run close to 500 rds through it with this load in practice and the only malfunction I ever had is the first time i shot it after my elbow got tore up last year and I limp wristed the gun due to not being fully rehabbed from the injury. Thankfully since I have healed it has been back to flawless function :)
Either slug would be effective. I prefer the Winchester XP3, 3", 300 gr., which scoots at 2250 FPS from my 24" rifled barrel. It is recommended for use in a rifled barrel, but is extremely effective from a smoothbore at any distance you might defensively engage a bear.
In regards to the Underwood ammo, you mentioned you had the 180 gr. FMJ, which I assume is what you mean when you say you have 500 rounds fired through your pistol. If you are considering any other bullet design, Underwood or otherwise, it should be absolutely known if it runs or not. All bullets are not the same, and all Underwood bullets are not the same. Many pistols that run FMJ's perfectly may choke on the WFN hard cast bullets. Most often, it's an issue with chambering the bullet nose profile.
The best area to target is decided by the bear. This time of year they should still be fairly skinny, but may have matted fur (bullet slower-downers). I like shoulder and neck shots. A bear can't/won't charge with a broken shoulder. A quarter facing shot offers a large target area at the base of the neck, with an easy path to vitals. Quarter away and broadside shots are more difficult. If the bear turns away, he's probably thinking serious about leaving. Let him. A head-on shot, especially if he's charging, leaves little choice. Empty your gun, whatever it is, into center mass of that big furry blur closing fast on you. If you can shoot over your shoulder, now would be a good time to put that to practice. Eat Wheaties for breakfast. All the better if you are wearing sneakers, and your companion isn't. If you have bear spray, spray your companion. That stuff only pisses off the bear, but will slow down your companion. If your companion has it, he will use it on you, whether he intends to or not (guaranteed). Park the truck toward the exit, leave the keys in the ignition, and the driver side window down (for a few reasons that will be abundantly clear, at that moment).
thanks for the good info and a chuckle or two. So my plan at this point is to use the ammo I have and trust for my 10. I will go check out the local options for slugs and see what I find. I am intrigued by the xp3 you mentioned.
I really appreciate your time and knowledge.
Fernpatch,
Get out and have a fun weekend in the woods. Certainly use the precautions you've discussed. As you mentioned the plan was to cut and split trees, unless there is something seriously wrong with the Black Bear, I seriously doubt you'll see one. Black Bears tend to be much more shy and reserved than their Brown cousins. That doesn't mean they're not worth your respect cause they most certainly capable of being a real problem if they chose to be. However, they gonna know you're around way before you'll be aware of them and the vast majority of times they go way out of the way to avoid human contact.
Enjoy the great outdoors, be aware but not worried.
Regards
Thank you Rojo. I am looking forward to getting out of town for sure :)
well, how many bears did you have to shoot? :)) or did you just chain saw massacre them. :P
Had a great time. Cut and split a pile about the size of a small trailer house. The only wild life encountered was my buddies new dog. I was tempted on more than one occasion to do very bad things to it as it is a little yappy ankle biter that decided my boots were its new favorite chew toy. but I guess bears and or other wildlife are scared of either the sound of chainsaws or 3 lbs of yappy ankle biting chihuahua.
Once again a big thank you to all that provided good information and I hope I have been able to amuse a few good souls along the way 8)
I read about a Danish military scouting unit that patrols above the artic circle in Greenland. They carry Lee Infields that are re-chambered for 30-06 because modern service rifles have difficulty in the extreme cold. They also carry the Glock 20 as their side arm because it will work in the extreme cold and they wanted it to defend from polar bear attacks. Not sure what load they carry but, they wanted a semi-auto for bear attacks. The ammo companies recommend 200 grain FMJ for bear country.
I love these discussions;
It does not matter really what you use as much as it matters how well you can shoot it under extreme pressure.
What I am saying test your skills under pressure on the range with your weapon of choice.
Bottom line is if you are 12" wide of the target even the 12 Ga will not be effective.
Another important consideration is the recognizing of a dangerous situation and having the tacticle advantage of NOT being surprized.
I have a box of underwood 220gr hardcast @ an advertised 1,200fps i would think that this load would penetrate like crazy. A lot of guys who shoot hard cast in rifle's (think 38-55 and such carttidges) say that upping the velocity past 1,200fps or so does not aid in penetration, sometimes the opposite. I think Buffalo Bore has a 230gr hard cast also. Most people carry these loads for defense against bears when bumming around in the woods, would love to see what kind of penetration they would have on the big ornery stuff. :-X
Quote from: darkstar on September 19 2016 05:26:25 PM MDT
I have a box of underwood 220gr hardcast @ an advertised 1,200fps i would think that this load would penetrate like crazy. A lot of guys who shoot hard cast in rifle's (think 38-55 and such carttidges) say that upping the velocity past 1,200fps or so does not aid in penetration, sometimes the opposite. I think Buffalo Bore has a 230gr hard cast also. Most people carry these loads for defense against bears when bumming around in the woods, would love to see what kind of penetration they would have on the big ornery stuff. :-X
There have been a couple of published articles regarding penetration and velocity. If you are in the 1000-1300fps range, with properly constructed and heavy for caliber bullets, that will provide for the deepest penetration. That is one of the reasons that Garret makes the reduced velocity Defender load of 44mag Hammerhead cartridges.Those are his 300+ grain 44 Mags that are only loaded to 1050fps, vs 1350fps for the Hammerheads. Much easier to shoot, yet they still equal the penetration of the faster rounds. The faster bullets are just effective at longer range on Elk and Moose, but have been no better at stopping bear attacks with head shots in the real world.
I carry my Kimber 10mm often while salmon fishing for Bear protection or skinning a moose.
I carry 200gr Hardcast at 1250 FPS factory loads in it........made for thick skull or shoulder blade of a Bear.
The 10mm in a Auto is very convenient to carry but does not equal my SW 629 in 44 Mag. which is a better bear protection round.
I normally have a 12ga Shotgun with Brenneke Slugs close by on my daypack my preferred Bear protection weapon.
Zero and practice at 10 to 15 yards or where ever your cutoff comfort zone is with Bear.
Quote from: Alaska on March 26 2017 01:17:19 PM MDT
I carry my Kimber 10mm often while salmon fishing for Bear protection or skinning a moose.
I carry 200gr Hardcast at 1250 FPS factory loads in it........made for thick skull or shoulder blade of a Bear.
The 10mm in a Auto is very convenient to carry but does not equal my SW 629 in 44 Mag. which is a better bear protection round.
I normally have a 12ga Shotgun with Brenneke Slugs close by on my daypack my preferred Bear protection weapon.
Zero and practice at 10 to 15 yards or where ever your cutoff comfort zone is with Bear.
Welcome and thank you for your input Alaska! What is the closest you have encountered a grizzly or a brown bear and what was its attitude?
Having head shot (almost a contact shot) inside a cook tent a black bear with a 444 Marlin, I can tell you that when you are that close, any FMJ or hardcast solid will work.
After that experience, it's at least a 44 Mag or a 12ga with slugs as a minimum for me in bear country. 308Win or bigger rifle is preferred.
Black bears when riled are different than Browns or Grizzlies, you will be a fight to the death. Almost like little man syndrome of the animal kingdom.
SBR in 458 SOCOM 3-point sling loaded with 460 grain hard cast boolits. maybe one the new Mossberg Shockwave 12 GA with brenneke slugs.
Quote from: DM1906 on April 28 2016 12:24:48 PM MDT
As said, it all depends on the bear. 10mm against a brown bear is nothing more than a deterrent, regardless of the cartridge. Few handguns, short of the big magnums, are better than spray. Black bear are different and size matters (the bear's and the bullets). .40SW with 180 gr. Black Talon can dispatch 350-ish pound black bear. Done it twice out of necessity. 3 rounds in the neck and shoulder (Mozambique-like, if you will). Larger than that, I dunno. .41 and .44 Magnum will stop the 500+ pounders (been there, done that). The 10mm is NOT comparable to .41M, I don't care what anyone says (10mm gets about 1/2 way to 265 gr. @ 1430 FPS). The 180 gr. Underwood you have will about as effective as any 10mm for defensive shooting black bear. They'll penetrate as well as any hardcast, and the bullet won't matter if you miss vitals. Also consider, if you haven't shot that ammo in your pistol before, it may not run. Some pistols don't like the big, flat-nose bullets. Use a pistol to buy time to get the 12 ga, which is what you need. Time. It helps if you have a plan, but the bear has no intention to play by your plan. Chances are, you won't see a bear. If you do, he'll likely scatter before you can break leather. Also, having a yappy dog around helps, both as an alarm, and a deterrent.
Baloney. 10mm with the right ammo kills Grizzlies dead. Google handgun bear defense 93 cases.
Welcome Alaska, my preferred protection would also be a 12 gauge, alternating slugs and 00 buckshot, using my favorite HEVI-Shot Dead Coyote's 9 pea sized pellets; That with a high cap 10 on my chest or hip, and a high level of situational awareness, you would be safer than most 😊
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/10/alaskans-stop-grizzly-bear-charge-with-glock-10mm-on-elmendorf-richardson/#axzz6mMzC7XO1
Quote from: fernpatch on April 28 2016 03:19:57 AM MDT
First I don't know if this is the best section to post this question as it does not directly involve hunting.
I am going to visit a friend this weekend to help cut and split a number of trees down on his property and he called today to let me know that his neighbor spotted a bear today. I am wondering what 10mm load would make for good bear medicine should a critter decide that I look tasty while cutting and splitting firewood.
My normal carry load is underwood 180gr gold dots. I also have on hand some underwood 180gr FMJ loads.
Would either of these be appropriate or should I:
1) Scour the local shops hoping to find a different load.
2) Be resigned to keep my 12ga close by with 3 inch slugs
Thanks in advance for any and all replies.
hornady and speer makes a (or used to) make a semi jacketed round nose flat point, they will penetrate deeply if you cannot find those I'd suggest the lehigh defense 140 grain extreme penetrators either of those loaded will stop a bear, including a brown bear ......
Quote from: sqlbullet on April 28 2016 02:49:52 PM MDT
Quote from: fernpatch on April 28 2016 02:35:53 PM MDT
best area to target to stop an angry bear?
Knees.
Once you shoot your friend in the knees he won't be able to run and the bear will stop at him.
LOL, thank you for that, made my Friday. Have heard it a hundred times and it never gets old.
Although an old thread we enjoyed this discussion.
Wife and I worked several Fall seasons in a ride-in camp in the Wyoming Range S. of Jackson and West of Bondurant. We kept one of our 5" model 29s stoked with 320gr. LBTs close to hand all the time but never had to use it; thankfully. There were Griz in the area but they were seldom a problem for the outfitters in the area. Think having our Heeler dog around camp helped keep the bears at a distance also. We have found the .44mag tougher to shoot well in DA mode as we've gotten older, hence our switch to the 10MM in the 1911 and our presence here. Lots of good info on this site.
Here in the Alleghenies we have only black bears and our son loves chasing them with hounds. His new bear gun is the DW Bruin in 10MM launching 200gr. WFNGC cast bullets at 1262fps.
Well the thing about bears & mountain lions is to be very watchful, as they could sneak up on you. You are in their backyard and they see you as food or threat!
Bears use their sense of smell and can be attracted to many different smells especially foods.
They will be very protective of their young even older cubs.
Heavy duty large canisters of Bear spray can help deter an attack somewhat, but they can be very aggressive!
You can not have too much gun, Hard Cast will be better to bust bones and deep penetration.
I live in Grizz country the 10mm load of choice is 200gr hard cast around here. As stated above shot placement is critical so a load you can shoot the best in my thoughts is better than a hot load that you can?t.
this Tuesday I am leaving for Alaska. so needless to say, I have been following this thread and other similar info here and other places. I am flying so space & weight are a concern. I am not going hunting so my only firearm will be for bear protection. I was torn between my .44 mag S&W 629 and my 10mm. XDm. after doing some rapid fire drills, the 10mm won. more hits on target quicker. although I am deadly accurate with the 629 firing single action and the energy per hit is greater, the capacity and better control during rapid fire of the XDm gave it the advantage. (in my opinion) add the advantage of lighter weight (in luggage & carrying) plus the ease of concealment (for those times when I might have to) made me choose the XDm. I know most grizzly & brown bear charges are bluffs and I don't want to have to kill one so I plan on getting some bear spray when I get up there. (can 't fly with the can of spray I already own) God forbid I have to actually shoot a bear but if it happens I know it will be up close and things will happen fast. so I'm betting on that the chance that a bunch of little 10mm bullets in the bear's head will equal or better one maybe two hits with the .44mag. if I were hunting with a pistol and it wasn't a charging situation, the .44 would have been my choice. just my $.02
For those interested here's a bear drill to compare your guns and your performance...
Place 8"or 10" paper plates on stakes, about thigh high off the ground, at 15, 10, 7. 5 and 3 yards; 5 targets
Start with your gun of choice (and your heavy bear loads) in a ready position.
On the beep of the shot timer place one round on each plate as fast as you can guarantee a hit on each.
Any miss is a failing grade.
Record your time or times and you'll have a good idea of your performance with your gun of choice or a comparison of two or more weapon's efficiency in your hands.
The first run is the one that counts BTW.
The above drill is designed to simulate a charge, so shoot the targets far to near.
Yes it certain areas the Mountie?s carry G20 in Canada.
Here in Alaska black bears because of huge numbers are much more aggressive on camp sites and a danger to the public. Remember Black Bears will eat you and Grizzlies will maul you.
Incident sites after black bear attacks most often the victim will pass out and regain conscious finding leg calf parts eaten down like a chicken leg.
Bear Spray is for Democrats that voted for Biden.
The Glock 20 is very popular here in Alaska.
For factory loads the Underwood 200 and 220gr Hardcast are hard to beat.
I always carry my G20 slightly modified with KKM barrel and NDZ 22 pound spring and stainless rod to help with the addition pressure of these real 10mm loads.
For years carried big bore revolvers but when the G20 was introduced I bought one and liked them so much sold all my revolvers in favor of the G20. Underwood is the only factory ammo I would suggest in the 10mm Auto.
Absolutely, Kevin and his team know their stuff
Good thread; where we live we can watch black bear and dall sheep across the river valley from us with 8x binos, while the browns and moose pass through our yard. Modified Glock 20s are super popular. I carry a stock XDM in a Diamond D Denali everyday on the property, walking to the post office, etc. 200-220gr cast is typical. We've not had a mauling in a few years thankfully. One morning this June our neighbors to one side started shooting at around 7am, then on the other side about 1/2 hour later. A brown sow and her cubs came up to their cabin; sow did not respond to the first two rounds in the dirt at her nose, but ambled off after her cubs just before the next round (rifle) went into her. Fortunately our dog was inside, because they passed through the woods behind our house. Did not appreciate until we moved here that bear become habituated to noise, spray, and warning shots. Spring and early summer, the non-lethal are probably more effective, but once they get habituated, nothing left to do but put them down. USFS had to put a few down a few miles down river from us this year.
I wince when I see tourists hiking one of the trails near here, and all they have are bells and spray - there is no guarantee the bear you meet hasn't already been sprayed enough they no longer care. When we moved here a sourdough informed me that bear spray is for after you've shot the bear dead, so the Trooper can smell it and check the right box on the Defense of Life and Property report.
You never quite know what they are going to do, that?s the scary part for me
I HAVE LIVED IN BEAR COUNTRY MOST OF MY LIFE. THE BLACK BEAR IS VERY LIKELY TO ATTACK. HOWEVER IT IS RARE THAT THEY WILL KILL HUMANS. THE GRIZZ IS AN AN AGGRESSIVE BEAR AND A KILLER. I HAVE KNOWN MANY WHO SURVIVED GRIZZ ATTACKS.
AN OLD FRIEND WAS ATTACKED WHILE ELK HUNTING HERE IN THE WIND RIVER MTNS OF WYOMING. HIS FRIEND SHOT THE BEAR 5 TIMES WITH A .270 AND SAVED HIS LIFE. THE VICTIM SPENT MONTHS IN THE HOSPITAL GETTING RECOVERED.
THE NEWS OF BEAR ATTACKS IS COVERED UP BY THE GOVERNMENT. IT CAN COST THE NATL PARKS MONEY. THE TOURIST TRADE IS IMPORTANT TO THE POLITICIANS.
THE 10MM LOADED WITH 200 GR. BULLETS HAS PROVEN TO PUT GRIZZ DOWN. MOST OF US ARE HANGING OUR OLD .44 MAGS ON THE WALL. :)
a good friend of mine told me this years ago, if brown, lay down, and if it?s black, fight back. If this is accurate or not I couldn?t say, but he has survived in bear country for many years
Quote from: Jim Bridger on September 28 2022 01:13:46 PM MDT
THE BLACK BEAR IS VERY LIKELY TO ATTACK.
Not sure the source of this information, but this is very not accurate.
Black bears avoid humans and rarely attack. Attacks are almost always motivated by hunger and not territorial defense. Usually they will just run away. In some cases, such as defending a cub, they may make a mock show of aggression huffing, growling and slapping their front paws on the ground.
It is true that there are many more black bear attacks per year than grizzly bear attacks. But, the population of black bear in the lower 48 states is 500 times larger than grizzly bears (450,000-500,000 black bears compared to less than 1,000 grizzly bears). The grizzly bear range is also limited to the north west edge of the US in Montana, Wyoming, Idaho and Washington. The black bear ranges across a far larger expanse and into far more population dense sub-regions of the US. The extreme population and range difference means even though black bear attacks are less like per capita of bear, there are more attacks because the black bears are so much more common in human habitat.
KenK, because black bear attacks are almost always motivated by hunger, playing dead won't help you. The bear wants to eat you, so your only shot at living is to get away. This should not suggest that an unprepared human is likely to successfully fight off a hunger motivated black bear, or that the bear will disengage if you fight back. The advise is really more of "he gonna eat you anyway, so make his meal count". Because attacks are usually motivated by hunger, it would be wise if you spend time in bear country to know when conditions are right for food scarcity and adjust your behavior accordingly.
Brown bears are very territorial and their attacks are far more less likely to be motivated by hunger, so once they think you are no longer a territorial threat (dead) they will usually leave you alone. As long as you are resisting you are a territorial threat and the fight will continue.
Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_black_bear#Attacks_on_humans
https://bear.org/bear-facts/black-bears/bears-and-humans/
https://wwf.panda.org/discover/our_focus/wildlife_practice/profiles/mammals/brown_bear2/brownbear_population_distribution/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_bear
Thanks, my friends suggestion that playing dead when a brown / grizzly comes after you seems to fit what you said, (it?s typically about territory and not for a tasty dinner) instead of the black bears motivation that wants a tasty dinner. Like I said previously, these were my friends tactics, if and when he was put in that position. I personally have no idea either way other than listening to other peoples responses that have been in that situation
I live in active "Grizz", country. As posted 2 locals were attacked by a Grizz last week. My close friend shot his attacker 7 times with a 10MM Glock pistol.
One bullet hard cast hit the victim in his lower left leg. The handgun is used in close combat. The 10MM High Cap pistols are proving their value in
Bear country.
Anyone living in or near "Grizz", knows the Bear has you very fast.. Carry a High Cap 10MM in a Cross-Chest holster Rig.
Glock 20 in 10mm Auto
KKM Barrel
NDZ 22 Pound Recoil Spring and Rod
NDZ stainless Firing Pin Channel
Wolff Extra Power Springs in Magazines
Glock Adj Rear Site
Talon Grips
6 pound Wolff Firing pin Spring
The only factory ammo I use is Underwood 220gr Hardcast for Bear defense
YES YOUR CHOICE OF HARD CAST 10MM 200 GR BULLETS IS CORRECT. THE 10MM HAS BEEN USED WITH SUCCESS IN STOPPING THE BROWN BEARS. I HAVE 3 FRIENDS WHO HAVE SUFFERED GRIZZ ATTACKS. THE LAST TWO WERE ATTACKED LAST MONTH. ONLY ONE WAS ARMED HE HAD A GLOCK 10MM LOADED WITH 200 GRS HARD CAST SLUGS. THIS OCCURRED IN TWO SEPARATE ATTACKS.
FOR ANYONE TO ASSUME THAT THE 10MM CANNOT TURN AN ATTACKING BEAR MAY LIVE AN URBAN LIFE. THE MULTI SHOT 10MM CAN PENETRATE DEEPLY INTO THE BEARS BRAIN. FAST EXPANDING BULLETS ARE NOT THE ANSWER IN STOPPING A GRIZZ.
a bigger gun. 45colt +P or 454 Casull. with 300 gr. bullets and up.
200 grain hard cast, at least 1200 fps should be a good starting point.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
I have a G20 and shoot 180XTPs and now cast my own 180?s. These are running in the 1200 - 1250 range.
I surely haven?t shot a true bear, but the Texas Bear?s (hogs) seem to die just fine with these loads.
If I were going to Alaska or something like it, where Grizzly/Brownies would surely be, for an extended time, I?d load some 200 cast bullets with a hard lead mix for penetration.
Other than that, a brief period in Grizzly county in Wy some years ago, I packed some 165?s and felt fine, as my ability and confidence was good with this combination. Glock 20 = 15+1 and an extra 15 mag.
Enjoy your trip and keep your eyes open!
Would want good cast bullets for big bear medince
how about FMJ bullets? would they have any advantage or disadvantage over hard cast? seems to me they would be just as good and maybe function better in some pistols.
Quote from: blaster on January 25 2023 05:58:53 AM MST
how about FMJ bullets? would they have any advantage or disadvantage over hard cast? seems to me they would be just as good and maybe function better in some pistols.
I've always suspected that some of the flat nosed, wide meplat, 10mm bullets might have good results. The Armscor FMJs have brass jackets and a very wide meplat, almost the same as most hard cast bullets in width. Most other 10mm FMJs have a narrower meplat.
I've heard that round nosed FMJs can be deflected off of bone and can push tougher body parts like arteries out of the way rather than severing them. Seems plausible, especially since I have no way to test that.
I have fired some of the Armscor FMJs through some 12-14" pine stumps that were drying for a couple of years and had some big knots in them. They whistled right through with no deflection and tore up the ground on the other side. There was almost no deformation other than the rifling marks. They're very tough bullets.
RMR sells them, although they don't identify them as Armscor.
A 10MM round loaded with a very high Brinnel slug that goes deep into Mr. Grizz, may save your life?
The best 200gr hard cast bullet we've found is the BHN-22, RNFP/GC from Montana Bullet works. 12.5gr. of A#9 pushes them to 1250fps from our Guncrafter No Name 1911 with the 6" barrel installed. Recoil is stout but manageable.
I could not get 220gr RNFPs to feed reliably, despite changing seating depths. Anyone else have this issue with the 220s? Have heard it's a common problem with all guns and the 220s. Just a rumor of fact?
Quote from: Markwell on February 14 2023 09:25:34 AM MST
The best 200gr hard cast bullet we've found is the BHN-22, RNFP/GC from Montana Bullet works. 12.5gr. of A#9 pushes them to 1250fps from our Guncrafter No Name 1911 with the 6" barrel installed. Recoil is stout but manageable.
I could not get 220gr RNFPs to feed reliably, despite changing seating depths. Anyone else have this issue with the 220s? Have heard it's a common problem with all guns and the 220s. Just a rumor of fact?
Awesome, that's the same bullet I'm trying to load. Any experience with power pistol or Longshot?