We'll be testing this thing in an AR-15 shortly. The case holds nearly 60 grains of powder. It should push the 135gr bullet to about 3,000fps.
Tony
(https://s20.postimg.org/do1p0ywct/10mm_SOCOM_zpsvhdfaiml.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/ltjqz4sbh/10mm_SOCOMvs10_zpsldk8yuhy.jpg)
:o
;D
8)
WANT !!!
Very nifty
Whoa. :o Will the bullet hold up at 3000 fps?
I guess we'll find out.
Tony Rumore
Tromix
Tony-
For the love of God please stop!!
I've already have your 375 and 458 SOCOMs, you KNOW I'll have to build this, too!! ;)
Looking forward to the testing...
Tony you have gone and done it now! :o It appears to be based on the 458 SOCOM case necked down to 0.400", I'll continue to study this one... 8)
The thing will be bullets capable of holding up to the velocities...I can see the Barnes, Lehigh, Cutting Edge, Hornady and a few other bullets as being better suited for holding up to the higher velocities.
Thanks for sharing and showing us the workup. :D
I guess I have to order another AR lower and upper.
Quote from: TonyRumore on February 24 2016 06:46:36 AM MST
I guess we'll find out.
Tony Rumore
Tromix
LOL - I suppose that is the way to find out. Shoot it and see what happens.
Oh boy. I need to cancel my 9x25 order now.
Need dies for this.
Some of the 100% copper / bronze projectiles would be of interest for the 10mm SOCOM
Barnes has the 125gr Catalog # 30500, 140gr Catalog # 30502 and 155gr Catalog # 30504 in the TAC XP line
Lehigh Defense has Controlled Fracturing 140gr Bullet, Xtreme Defense 115gr Bullet, Xtreme Penetrator 140gr Bullet
Cutting Edge has the Handgun Raptor HGHP 120gr, HGHP 150gr and Handgun Solid HGS 190gr
Copper Only Projectiles (C.O.P.) 155gr
Maker Bullets none shown
North Fork Bullets none shown
Quote from: Pablo on February 24 2016 11:26:54 AM MST
Oh boy. I need to cancel my 9x25 order now.
Need dies for this.
We actually have 10mm SOCOM neck sizing dies that we use in our .375 SOCOM 3-die set. It is used to pre-form the .458 SOCOM cases to .40 caliber before finishing them off in the .375 full length size die.
So to make a 10mm SOCOM case, we first neck size a .458 SOCOM case to 10mm, then run the case up into a .458 SOCOM full length size die that has the expander button replaced with a 40 caliber pill. The bullet is then installed using a standard .458 SOCOM seating die.
We designed the 10mm SOCOM chamber with a relatively long throat, so you can seat a 200gr XTP to the base of the case neck and it will still chamber even though it is seated WAY long compared to how it would be seated in a standard 10mm case.
Tony Rumore
Tromix
I did not need to see this..
Amazing looking cartridge you've got there. Definitely one I'd be interested in shooting some day.
My only question, though, (and I'm genuinely interested in finding this out for my carbine) is who makes bullets designed for such high velocities? Wouldn't most factory hollow points just disintegrate going that fast?
Edit: reread the thread, looks like a few options were proposed as good candidates. I'm very interested in seeing gel test results for this. Thanks for sharing your experiments with us :)
AR-15? Why not an AR-10 platform?
I read an article many years ago where someone necked down the 450 Marlin to use various muzzle loader bullets. I think it was hornady that has a good selection of .40 muzzleloader bullets.
Pablo, the 10mm SOCOM, like the 375 SOCOM are based off the 458 SOCOM cartridge. These have a rebated casehead rim the same size as 308/45ACP, the casing has high volume, based off the 50 Beowulf, which changes some across the various offerings. The cartridge for these were being loaded to 2.260" limitation of an AR magazines. Various bullet designs and nose profiles do require some changes the COAL to fit the chamber as cut.
Recently the 458 SOCOM was being considered as being adopted and legitimized by SAAMI.
Hopefully Mr. Rumore will share his loading data for the 10mm SOCOM to add some measure of safety for those who seek to work with this cartridge. He has been very straight forth sharing his spreadsheets for the 40Super data with me in the past,
so I have to thank him for his generosity. :D 8)
I have been loading the 458 SOCOM for my nephew, who has the Tromix 16" and 10" uppers. In doing so I have studied everything I could find for this cartridge and it does delive one hell of a wallop. It would be a fairly easy transition for me to move into the 10mm SOCOM, so I have to start a build for myself. ;D
I reload many cartridges,one is the 35Rem rifle cartridge using 38/357 revolver bullets,9mm pistol bullets,and 380acp 90gr pistol bullets. I consider it my 'fun' shooter using that large cartridge to propel bullets that weren't designed for it. Paper targets never exhibited any unusual holes,so those handgun bullets held up to the velocity.
35Rem with Sierra 90gr 380acp bullet.
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh254/oldmanZ28/35Rem-90gr9mmSierra-H2400S.jpg) (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/oldmanZ28/media/35Rem-90gr9mmSierra-H2400S.jpg.html)
so if I have a di 10mm auto ar15 barrel can the gas port be plugged and it be rechambered for this I am intrigued
NO, the BCG is that of 308 case head, the cartridge is the 458 SOCOM necked down which is fairly large diameter. Getting the locking lugs appropriate for the cartridge size maybe different.
Quote from: sgmtino on February 25 2016 08:43:55 AM MST
so if I have a di 10mm auto ar15 barrel can the gas port be plugged and it be rechambered for this I am intrigued
If you have an AR-15 chambered in 10mm auto, then you have a starting point. You will need a 458 SOCOM bolt, and then you barrel reamed.
If it were me I would just build a dedicated upper for this. .400 barrel blank, have it turned and the barrel extension pinned. Then use it in what is otherwise a 458 socom upper build.
I am quite surprised there is this much interest in the 10mm SOCOM. We never planned to make it a production item, but I guess we may need to rethink that.
Tony Rumore
Tromix
Quote from: TonyRumore on February 25 2016 11:05:45 AM MST
I am quite surprised there is this much interest in the 10mm SOCOM. We never planned to make it a production item, but I guess we may need to rethink that.
Tony Rumore
Tromix
I know at least three people who have checked Tromix site for sales info.
Keep in mind we are not a random sample. Results in this forum will be skewed.
Hey Mr. Tony Rumore, I linked this to the 458 group and Big Bore AR Group on facebook and it did stir some interest there as well. ;) Some of them have been drooling and some are thinking what is Tony up too now... LOL ::)
The 458 SOCOM upper with the proper sized ejection window and cover is also needed for the ejection of the larger 458 brass and needed for the 10mm SOCOM and 375 SOCOM setups as well.
While in conversation with another fellow who has a 6.8 SPC that triggered a thought that the casehead of the 6.8 is the same as the 10mm, with that thought in mind I thought why not case form and neck them up to 40 cal. to make a 10mm magnum type cartridge for the AR. It may be easier to just use 10mm brass. ::)
(https://s20.postimg.org/nlcptw6hn/68saami.jpg)
i would so be down for 10mm bore cartridge in ar platform I have a qc10 glock lower with a Ron Williams barrel still working on feeding issues but would not think twice about changing over to a higher case capacity and using standard ar mags
Yeah... I don't want my second post here to be the proverbial flash bang thrown into the room but I gotta know... "Why?" And, why do people insist on associating the "SOCOM" moniker with wildcat rounds? Because I don't recall ANY release coming out of the associated program office seeking sources or requesting info for a quasi pistol rifle round.
And let's be honest. The 458 SOCOM was NEVER adopted by ANYONE in SOCOM.
Yeah yeah, someone talked to someone and that someone was affiliated with a SOCOM unit and blah blah blah. But it isn't based off a formal requirement. There's no government program attached to any of this generating an ICD/CDD to be routed to the SOCOM BoD or JCIDS process.
So, is this akin to a redneck saying "hold my beer and watch this" i.e.; "hey I gotta cool idea"?
Because if it is, why attach the "SOCOM" branding? Is it because it sounds cool? If so, why not call it the "10mm Trident" and talk about how it came about after a conversation with some guys over beers at Boneshakers in Dam Neck ? Lol.
And before someone spouts off that every round in use started as a wildcat" as an argument, remember, those rounds, to include the 6.8 and 300 Blackout were associated to a requirement, not a discussion with dudes in a bar who don't generate requirements lol.
I will concede that it's a nifty toy for those who have disposable liquid assets but there's ZERO applicability beyond that.
So, "why"?
And unless your counter argument contains can reference at a minimum a USON, 9 Line that has KSA. KPP and a PSPEC with thresholds and objectives, don't say anything because I'll just embarrass you and you'll be forced to ban me to make yourself feel better.
Not_A_SEAL, we are an open minded group, that share a 10mm following mostly. But understand we like to discuss everything 10mm and yes other cartridges and calibers. This post (10mm SOCOM) started by Tony Rumore who is a respected gunsmith, machinist and design innovator has brought his development concept here knowing we would like to see his work and hear of his progress. If he wishes to label this one a SOCOM, I think he has that right seeing he is the person who is designing the cartridge based on the original SOCOM cartridge design.
As far as the 458 SOCOM story, it was said that there was a need for a heavy duty round with special purposes, you can read and study that even more here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.458_SOCOM (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.458_SOCOM)
You mention a lot of various acronyms of which I would have to look up to better understand, but it doesn't lend any credence to the project. But we do try to maintain a respectable forum here!
Why not?
Why put a man on the moon?
Why put a diamond on your bride's finger?
Why were parachute pants in fashion for a decade?
Because its part if the human experience. It's great you seem to have all the answers. However, even though you may be right, you are wrong because you're not listening.
[drops the mic]
Shadow and Mongo
I am more than familiar with the "458 SOCOM" bedtime story which as I said in my post is essentially BS because it was built based on a discussion with a bunch of guys who had no authority to generate requirements or procure Jack and squat.
But in Tony's defense, OCO money was flowing like water back then and he probably thought he'd get some sole source contract to fulfill a USON or 9 Line and knew zero about the requirements process, the FAR or PEO-SOF. So, he made a business decision, built some guns, handed some out and demo'd a few at some industry days.
But there NEVER was a valid "SOCOM" requirement.
I can tell you that when someone from industry uses the following phrase: "(insert name of unit/agency) came to us and asked us to make (insert their widget's name)"
The truth is that 80% of the time what they SHOULD be saying is; "my cousin's sister's hair dresser's son hung out with me in a bar and said that this is what SOCOM needs"
And for the remaining 20% they should be saying: "(insert name of unit/agency) released an RFI/RFP on FBO and we submitted this for it"
Oh, and in regards to companies that respond to an RFI/RFP and aren't selected. Don't buy the BS story that it's rigged because they're debriefed as to why they weren't.
So, if there's no official SOCOM requirement, why refer to it as such?
If it's for marketing, say so. But also realize that identifying any thing as such is a bit disingenuous because it technically isn't a "SOCOM" or "SOST" cartridge.
And honestly, without that "SOCOM" moniker and associated bedtime story, it would've never been lapped up by the fanboys or made it on those lame tactical shows hosted by former SEALs.
Hopefully my vernacular wasn't beyond Mongo's comprehension and he can grasp that I'm listening but no one has answered.
(Hands Mongo his mic back and pats him on the head)
Soooo, I'm guessing Not_A_Seal isn't buying one? :)
Quote from: Blades on February 25 2016 07:07:18 PM MST
Soooo, I'm guessing Not_A_Seal isn't buying one? :)
Honestly, I own two 10mm pistols. A Bren Ten and a Sig P220 Match Stainless Elite. The former is a BBQ gun I don't shoot and the later is a BBQ gun I do.
And really, that's what all this "SOCOM" stuff Tony produces is, "BBQ Guns". In reality it's not used by any entity or agency (and no, just because someone in and agency has one doesn't constitute use). The 458 doesn't even have a DODDIC.
Why not call it and all the cartridges he makes "TROMIX"?
Not_A_SEAL, i understand what you are stating, however you come across like you have serious chip on your shoulder. That may be a subject for another post, instead of killjoy for the development of this project.
Personally I would like to have Tony share what he might find, the good, bad and the ugly, as he works through the trials and tribulation that comes with development of a new cartridge.
No chip on my shoulder.
But like you, I would love to hear from Tony on why he continues to reference "SOCOM" when he has no reason to do so.
Honestly, he should call it the "10mm TROMIX" and the "458 TROMIX" because after all, by his own admission he primarily builds firearms that "look cool" and are for "recreation"
Sorry but I don't see where SOCOM continues to fit in there.
So why use it?
Quote from: Not_A_SEAL on February 25 2016 03:12:49 PM MST
And unless your counter argument contains can reference at a minimum a USON, 9 Line that has KSA. KPP and a PSPEC with thresholds and objectives, don't say anything because I'll just embarrass you and you'll be forced to ban me to make yourself feel better.
Nice one buddy!
"Don't say anything." Wow. Loosen up. It's just a name.
It's like you're jealous or something.
No. I'm not jealous. I just want to know why a guy associates his product with an organization that doesn't use it. Pretty simple.
Quote from: Not_A_SEAL on February 25 2016 08:14:14 PM MST
No. I'm not jealous. I just want to know why a guy associates his product with an organization that doesn't use it. Pretty simple.
The answer is simple: He is necking down a 458 SOCOM.
I mean I don't care what he calls it, I like 10 x XXmm names, as in 9x25.
I wasn't the guy that came up with the SOCOM name. That was Marty ter Weeme.
I simply reused it so guys would know/assume it's based on the .458 SOCOM parent case....that's it..
As for "why" we did it. I already mentioned that. We already had the 10mm SOCOM die available in our .375 SOCOM die set, so there was very little cost to just cut one barrel for the hell of it.
Tony Rumore
Tromix
Tony - keep up the good work. Guys like you keep the firearm industry bright and moving forward. Thanks!
Moderator
Please move this thread over to the whining topic area.
By the way, your screen name gave me an idea for a new name for the cartridge
10mm Not-A-SOCOM
Dang. I seem to have missed all the fireworks.
Not_A_Seal, marketing is marketing. I don't think any of us are duped into thinking cobra venom or muscle was used in a Mustang Cobra. The name was picked because snake names were "cool" in the 60's.
As to why Tony, Marty, et al chose the name 458 SOCOM for their cartridge is their business. If you have a beef with how cartridges are named, then get on the board of SAAMI and introduce rules that require people to name cartridges in association with the inventing company or person. As it stands, SAAMI doesn't have such rules. Companies and people name cartridges in order to gain market share, pure and simple.
Since the 458 SOCOM is already established, naming wildcats based on said cartridge with a SOCOM designation makes supreme sense. It alerts truly knowledgeable people to the probably parentage or the round. What would seem stupid to me would be to name it something different. In fact, I wish US makers would play nice in this regard. I have a 260 Remington that has a parent case of 308 Winchester.
Not_A_Seal, whether you can see the chip on your shoulder or not, you have one. You mention you might get "banned" in your second post. Momma taught me if I didn't have something nice to say to be quiet, unless not talking would hurt someone.
If you have a beef with how Tony names his stuff, too bad. 10mm SOCOM is definitely the right name as it conveys EXACTLY what the cartridge is to anyone that might build an AR.