Would there be any interest in a revival of a 170 grain JHP (large hollow point) for our beloved 10mm, driven to the original 1400 fps from a 5 inch barrel? i believe that with the recent development in propellants could achieve these velocities without the erratic pressures originally encountered with the Norma Amotfors of Sweden.
If these could be developed, the 170 grain bullet at these velocities generate 741 foot pounds of energy. This is the equivalent of the .44 Remington Magnum "midrange" loads. I am not seeking loads that will batter today's 10mm pistols, but have them perfrom within the original ballistic perameters of the 1984 Norma 10mm loads. These would make marvelous antipersonnel loads and they can be used for hunting medium-sized game as well.
The original 1200 fps, 200 grain FMJ from a 5" barrel is as common as peanut butter. Why not the original 170 grain load? We have the technology!
I am not seeking to "push the envelope" of our beloved cartridge, simply make the "original" loads available once again.
Why not?
And the 165 isn't close enough?
Who makes a 170?
We are lucky to get what .40 caliber bullets we do get these days...most are designed for the 40S&W performance, and we drive those on up and over their performance levels with the 10mm.
There are a few that do hold up better than others. Copper Lead core the Speer GD & Hornady XTP, in the Solid Copper HP Barnes & Cutting Edge. But I take everything into account, construction, performance and price point... ???
The best bet is the Speer Gold Dot but as is for self defense, but as a hunting projectile Hornady XTP.
Now that said there are the Lehigh projectiles solid bronze with the X tip that may serve a special purpose. But like many all copper/bronze projectiles we give up weight or powder space as they are longer than the lead core counterparts.
What is needed is a copper cup with thicker web and tapered out to the HP (like rifle bullets), bonded would be nice.
I gotta agree that a 170 isn't going to distinguishable from a 165 as far as terminal performance.
Now, if we are talking about a new bullet designed from the ground up to open wide AND penetrate deep at 1300-1600 fps, that would be nifty.
Is there an "off-the-shelf" 165 grain 10mm round available or are ya'll talking about handloads?
Quote from: Blades on February 13 2016 12:13:31 PM MST
Is there an "off-the-shelf" 165 grain 10mm round available or are ya'll talking about handloads?
https://www.underwoodammo.com/10mm-auto-165-grain-bonded-jacketed-hollow-point/ (https://www.underwoodammo.com/10mm-auto-165-grain-bonded-jacketed-hollow-point/)
I don't know... It seems that for pistol hunting there are likely better suited cartridges. For zombie defense, doesn't really matter - load it fast and hit it hard. My own (highly informal) barrier testing showed 155 - 200 just blows right through, destroys a gallon jug of water, and still ends up a foot into wet sand - bullet construction didn't mean a whole lot, as destruction was massive.
If over penetration is ANYONE'S argument, it's moot. That person is holding the wrong gun.
Blade there is the Underwood Bonded Defense (Speer 165 gr Gold Dot) when they are in stock. (Geeman got his posted before mine, I clicked post and drove to get my niece only to find the new post came out, mine was stuck till I click post again when I got back.) Oops! ;)
However Captain O is wanting to see if a company would make a 170 grain JHP like those that were first made when the 10mm first were made
These were 170 TC (Truncated Cone) designs. Norma, Hornady and Winchester made their own varians.
(http://www.swiftutors.com/admin/photos/volume-of-a-truncated-cone.png)
This changed over time...WHY? The newer designs today are more of a rounded nose design which has two benefits, they tend to feed better and place more weight forward leaving room for more powder for each weight bullet.
(http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Federal_230%20gr%20Hydrashok-Failure%20to%20Expand_files/image002.jpg)
What is the optimum balance of the design, weight to length to hollow point (size and depth) for the velocity desired at a safe pressure. They need to expand fully within 14" without over expanding or breaking apart and deliver the energy they harness at a ecconomical price point.
While we are on the subject when we look at the NEW Sig Ammo these JHP's are utilizing a dual HP diameters Smaller open cavity and tinier diameter hole. They may even be a preformed controlling petal designs.
(http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/CmsContent/images/sig-sauer-elite-performance-ammo-cutaway.jpg)
So we see that they are keeping more nose weight with this HP design.
Not sure if this will help but Montana Gold has 155g 165g 180g and 200g in all types of designs available for reloading at there website. I use these bullets all the time and never had a problem with any of them. I use 180 in my 10MM now. Craig
Not sure whose bullet design it is, but Blazer uses a 170gr JHP bullet in their 10mm offerings. Box says " PMC Bronze".
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/147105/pmc-bronze-ammunition-10mm-auto-170-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-25
Not as "hot" as other loads, but shoots straight in my Delta.