I have a 2007 10mm Witness Elite Match. The current EAA replacement mags do not fit without forcing, especially as I move the mag up into the well, and cannot be removed without effort. I do not want to change the magwell's interior dimensions. Has anyone else experienced this, and are there any solutions? I am reluctant to send it back to EAA, since they have exchanged several mags with me as well as base pads. I also had an unproductive conversation with one of their execs that makes me hesitant to return it to them.
When I purchased the WE Match in 07 it came with a burr on the muzzle crown. EAA had me return it to them, and sent it back to me two days later with the following mods: fitted Lothar Walther polygonal barrel, ambi safety, and a spare 7 round mag. Pistol shoots to point of aim anywhere out to 23 yards. Only mods on my part are a 18lb Wolf recoil spring and a Springco Recoil package. The two additional mags I purchased in 07 fit fine and have only had their springs replaced with Wolf items.
If this question belongs on a different part of the forum please let me know.
Remove the basepads. Sand the tops. I will post more details tonight when I get back from Disneyland.
Here is the web page I wrote about it when I did it:
http://fellingfamily.net/witness_mags.html
And I created a post here in the Gunsmithing section.
http://10mm-firearms.com/gunsmithing/witness-mags-don't-fit/
Thanks for the reply, sqlbullet. Mag hangs up in well long before the mag is seated. Removing the base pad and then inserting makes no difference with seating. Something wrong with the new mag's cross-section. Does anyone else make mags for my model pistol?
Can you take some pictures of what you are working with? The old ones, new ones, pistol, problem, etc... Let's see what you're working with.
Yeah...need pics. Haven't seen this before
Thank you for the replies. The upper third of the new mags cause the problem. Comparing the properly fitting mags with the new one shows different upper tapers, different lip designs, and different left/right side configurations. Should have looked more closely before.
I need to take pistol and mags to a good gunsmith to get the new mags modified.
Mods I failed to mention earlier are an extra-power firing pin spring along with a Hennings extra-long firing pin.
If anyone has any 2007 or earlier 10mm full size mags he wishes to sell please contact me. Properly fitting mag bodies alone would be good, since I can purchase the internals elsewhere.
Do you have pictures? The red follower and newer black follower K10's both fit. You have something unheard of there really.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if you were shipped the wrong mags
Wrong caliber, possibly another pistol type... Maybe a small frame as well.
Yeah. OK am thinking some sarsilmaz mags
I have tried mags from EAA and from Midway. All stamped K10 on the right side near the bottom. All of the black follower K10 mags stick in the mag well when inserted about 2/3's in. EAA's Sales VP told me that since the pistol was out of warranty that I would be on the hook for all shipping and possibly repair charges. Emailed Tanfoglio in Italy but no reply. Hennings responded to me but could not help. I do not want to alter the mag well if at all possible, so I am trying to obtain the older mags and/or mag bodies.
Will try to get pics of the two types of mags. Seen from the top my old mags are nearly rectangular with a slight back taper. The K10 front is rounded with a more pronounced back taper.
Pistol is large frame Witness Match, as marked on left hand side of the gun. Barrel hood marked 10mm.
They are new? Let's get a photo and ID them. If EAA won't take them back for a K10 exchange (I assume these aren't stamped K10), at that point sell them and buy some K10's. They are the better ones to have anyway.
The 3 to 5 K10 mags I tried (from EAA and two other merchants) did not fit. That is why after reading the comments here I did a visual comparison between my old mags and the non-fitting K10s and noticed the major differences. I tried sanding the upper third of the K10 I kept but it still inserts only with effort.
Unless I can obtain the older mags I need the services of a good gunsmith to modify the K10 mags to fit, if it is possible.
Well that's real interesting! If you can get a picture of the pistol and mags it would be great!
I have 6 new mags all from EAA. If I put 13 rounds in them I can't get them into either my hunter or stock 2.
But what I can get into them sure smokes when it comes out.
Quote from: hondoweatherbee on January 08 2016 04:22:13 PM MST
I have tried mags from EAA and from Midway. All stamped K10 on the right side near the bottom. All of the black follower K10 mags stick in the mag well when inserted about 2/3's in. EAA's Sales VP told me that since the pistol was out of warranty that I would be on the hook for all shipping and possibly repair charges. Emailed Tanfoglio in Italy but no reply. Hennings responded to me but could not help. I do not want to alter the mag well if at all possible, so I am trying to obtain the older mags and/or mag bodies.
Will try to get pics of the two types of mags. Seen from the top my old mags are nearly rectangular with a slight back taper. The K10 front is rounded with a more pronounced back taper.
Pistol is large frame Witness Match, as marked on left hand side of the gun. Barrel hood marked 10mm.
I have at least 26 of these mags and have tested all of them, fully loaded. Only one of them had a problem, it wouldn't feed the first round from slide lock position, but after one mag's worth it wouldn't repeat the issue. I believe these are Mec Gar mags, the very best make available (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) so it has to be your gun. My Elite is about 2 years old as of 1/2016
Quote from: cdan on January 09 2016 07:29:35 PM MST
I have 6 new mags all from EAA. If I put 13 rounds in them I can't get them into either my hunter or stock 2.
But what I can get into them sure smokes when it comes out.
Get a Glock loader tool for 10mm or 45 and force the 14th in.. this will seat the very powerful spring and make future loading a bit easier and may allow you to seat the mag easier. Mine now just drop in. Wearing leather gloves is a very good idea unless you want to give blood like I did at first :-[
Three reasons the problem is not the gun:
1. When I returned the piece to EAA after I purchased it in mid 2007, their shop people had no mag issues with it (or did not tell me about any).
2. The returned pistol had an additional mag (7 round) with it that has worked fine.
3. The additional mags I purchased in 07 (red follower) had no problems.
I had no mag problems until I attempted using recent ones marked "K10" on the right panel near the back. My 3 functioning 15 round mags are marked "10mm" on the lower right hand panel toward the back, with a nearby letter "T" framed within a triangle with rounded corners. The mags all have orange followers.
I tried to insert the K10 mag after I removed the baseplate and spring/follower, but still had the same problem noted above.
Will try to get pictures. If anyone has both the 07 orange follower mags and the K10's see if you note any differences between them.
Mec-Gar no longer lists mags for my Witness on their website. Does anyone else make them? HW
Do you have a cellphone camera? It's hard to diagnose without seeing some pictures. We know the magazines and pistols pretty well here and can help with some photos.
Short of that... what happens if you load the suspect magazines with 1-6 rounds and try inserting them? Do they clip in fine and you only see the problem when loaded to 14-15?
The K10 mag body, sans everything else, will not insert fully without force. Problem starts about 2/3's of the way in.
Fully loaded magazines can take some force to get them seated.
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=57951.0
With some break-in they should get better. I will go try some of mine now for you and see.
I took a brand new K10 magazine and tried it with some 200gr Hardcast rounds.
- If I put a full 14 rounds in the magazine it takes some pretty good effort to get it to clip in. It actually hangs up at about the round 10 position indicator (see picture).
- Anything from 1-13 rounds it's pretty much par for the course standard effort without dragging.
I rarely put the full 14 in it at the range when I'm doing my thing anyway. It's hitting more than likely on either the sharp magwell lip or the inner part of the grip panels. In both cases some sanding of those areas will fix it for 14 to feed like normal. I think if you insert a full 14 round magazine enough it will wear the coating off the magazine and allow it to do the same thing as sanding. It' like a Ball-Park Frank in there with 14 rounds expanding the kind of thin magazine metal. You can put some kind of marking agent on your fully loaded magazine and insert it to see where the catch area is (use white chalk or maybe even bar soap). I used a brand new magazine and you can see the areas where mine had dragging due to shiny spots on the mag below.
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/12524321_987570281281004_7444829360004689320_n.jpg?oh=417d0680d3a3b9dd87627120e3e84937&oe=5743AF4D)
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/12540888_987570294614336_5675878697924209799_n.jpg?oh=9b1a4fce96f178997938f2e5a6f7ba99&oe=57056A5D)
I forgot to mention one other thing. I'm from the school of fitting a Hogue wrap-around on one and the inside portion of the grip has to be sanded A BUNCH to get the mags sliding in properly.
Take the two screws out of your grip panels and remove them. With them off, now try inserting your fully loaded magazine in there. If it snaps in no problem start sanding the inside of those panels, but make sure to leave enough material to seat them. If the problem is still there you will have the panels off and can see where you need to sand the magwell lip or inner portion of the magwell to get them in without effort. When you are good without panels, then install the panels and try it. Trust me... K10's are way better than the old T mags!
Quote from: hondoweatherbee on January 16 2016 02:01:35 AM MST
Three reasons the problem is not the gun:
1. When I returned the piece to EAA after I purchased it in mid 2007, their shop people had no mag issues with it (or did not tell me about any).
2. The returned pistol had an additional mag (7 round) with it that has worked fine.
3. The additional mags I purchased in 07 (red follower) had no problems.
I had no mag problems until I attempted using recent ones marked "K10" on the right panel near the back. My 3 functioning 15 round mags are marked "10mm" on the lower right hand panel toward the back, with a nearby letter "T" framed within a triangle with rounded corners. The mags all have orange followers.
I tried to insert the K10 mag after I removed the baseplate and spring/follower, but still had the same problem noted above.
Will try to get pictures. If anyone has both the 07 orange follower mags and the K10's see if you note any differences between them.
Mec-Gar no longer lists mags for my Witness on their website. Does anyone else make them? HW
AH, the worm turns.. the orange/red follower mags were a run of known~bad mags.. the latest are black followers and are GTG. All of mine are the black followers as I did research on the gun/mags before I bought them.. here you go:
http://www.cdnnsports.com/magazines/witness-10mm-15-all-full.html#.U6YLR7Hq3xI
Read the reviews, here:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/416807/eaa-magazine-witness-large-frame-10mm-auto-steel-blue
Yea... this review sums it up about like what I put earlier:
Good Magazines!
By Tanfoglio Freak
from Fernley, NV
Site Member
I purchased these a few months ago and just purchased 4 more since they cost twice as much from EAA (and they're the exact same product). I have 4 full-sized 10mm's (a Stock 1, Stock 2, and 2 identical "Special" models that are no longer made. All WERE advertised from EAA as holding 15 in the magazine. However, Tanfoglio changed their magazine manufacturer a few years ago so that the new mags now hold 13. Even EAA now says (on their website) the "Capacity" is 14 (meaning 13+1). The quality mags sold here are the new (and better functioning) 13 round mags (but they sometimes hold 14). About the only issue I've experienced is that when the mags are full, they sometimes rub against the underside of the grips so that they don't "drop free". Just sand the underside of the grips just a little and there will be no rubbing. And yes, the last couple of rounds aren't as easy to load as the first few rounds...That's expected for any high-cap mag. While I'm here, make sure you buy a 22# Wolff mainspring and a Sprinco recoil reducing guiderod if you plan on shooting full-strength 10mm ammo. Happy Shooting!
Yep.. again all 26 of my mags initially took 14 rds.. with a little help on the 14th from a Glock mag loader
All you guys that don't like the red follower mags, send them to me. MY guns run great with them once I put in wolff 15% springs.
Thanks to you folks I have found the problem. The K10 mag is a few thousands of an inch longer than my good orange follower T mags. After sanding down the K10 front and back, and then marking those areas with a black felt tip pen, I inserted the K10 all the way in and withdrew it by hand (takes a little effort). I now see where the binding is located and will work on reducing it hopefully to the point of elimination. Ideally I would like the K10 mag to work as smoothly as the T mags but I will take what I can get. HW