I spoke out against the celebration of Christmas and the thread was locked. I'm sorry if people felt insulted, but I have performed exhaustive research, and have yet to find any Biblical support for the current celebrating of the Christ child's birth. I understand (and approve) of celebrating of his crucifixion, burial and resurrection, but nothing supporting the celeberation of his birth.
Today, it seems to be a knee-jerk reaction by the public at large to elicit sentimental reverence for our fellow human being. This, in and of itself, isn't bad, but it isn't enough to drag the Holy name of Jesus the Christ into being used as an instrument of mass marketing. I personally find this repugnant, and refuse to participate for this reason if for no other. Being kind and following God's word should be a way of life all year, not just a short season.
The Season seems to have a "heretic" reason, as it were.
Does anyone have any other supporting evidence?
The answer to your main question is any number of cognitive bias.
Personally, I am glad of the time of reduced work load and activities with my family. We will cook together, watch some movies, talk about current events, read from a variety of good books. What other people do with X-mas is their own business.
I would apologize, but in my humble opinion, critical thinking should reign over emotionalism. If people enjoy the celebration, that's just fine. When facts come to light, a critical analysis never hurts. Why should truth be ignored? Isn't that why we rally around the Constitution and the light it shines on all humanity?
Barry Goldwater once said: "Extremism in the pursuit of liberty, is no vice". Shouldn't we treat the pursuit of truth within our faith with equal fervor? Do we really need to "go along to get along" when it comes to Biblical knowledge?
I think not.
By careful analysis and critical thinking, Christianity becomes the modern extension of astrology. It is the explanation that stands up to critical scrutiny the best.
Knowledge of Christ comes via the Holy Spirit by an emotional response.
Ah but not total emotion, enlightenment and intellect as well.
Knowing Christ encompasses the entire being. Knowledge of the empirical is crucial. Theology encompasses a great deal.
When man interlopes with the reality instituted by God, then reality must be addressed. Man's interference must be ignored and His creation/reality recognized.
Pope Constantine is like any other man, but in a robe. He had no authority to change the date of Christ's birth, but did so to obfuscate the pagan celebrations of the day. Man has no authority unless imbued by God Almighty, no more or less. While I don't like "raining on anyone's parade", I refuse to honor what God, in His infinite wisdom, hasn't.
The birth, burial and resurrection is of far greater import than His birth. It is through these He provided His salvation of all mankind that follow His word.
You are more than welcome to not celebrate the birth. However, for you to say other shouldn't is now just your opinion and like arm pits, everyone has a couple and most stink. ;)
Quote from: Captain O on August 31 2016 04:03:32 PM MDT
When man interlopes with the reality instituted by God, then reality must be addressed. Man's interference must be ignored and His creation/reality recognized.
Pope Constantine is like any other man, but in a robe. He had no authority to change the date of Christ's birth, but did so to obfuscate the pagan celebrations of the day. Man has no authority unless imbued by God Almighty, no more or less. While I don't like "raining on anyone's parade", I refuse to honor what God, in His infinite wisdom, hasn't.
The birth, burial and resurrection is of far greater import than His birth. It is through these He provided His salvation of all mankind that follow His word.
This is not compatible with this:
Quote from: Captain O on December 19 2015 11:38:38 PM MST
I would apologize, but in my humble opinion, critical thinking should reign over emotionalism.
Even a cursory application of critical thinking to the subject of the judeo-christian god shows he does not exist.
If god were omnipotent, as that theology teaches, then he is not good, given the suffering in the world. A truly omnipotent being could achieve his ends without, for instance, having little children suffer from cancer, or starvation, or child rape. The power to achieve any goal without suffering is clearly a power he either doesn't have (not omnipotent) or doesn't use (not good).
Quote from: redbaron007 on September 01 2016 08:59:09 AM MDT
You are more than welcome to not celebrate the birth. However, for you to say other shouldn't is now just your opinion and like arm pits, everyone has a couple and most stink. ;)
I never claimed anyone shouldn't celebrate as they feel. I
do feel opposed to sociocultural "strong arm tactics" that have been commercially foisted upon society. This is little more than emotional manipulation. I got over it years ago, but people like to engage in forcing others to bow to their will.
This happens on an annual basis.
Quote from: sqlbullet on September 01 2016 09:56:20 AM MDT
Quote from: Captain O on August 31 2016 04:03:32 PM MDT
When man interlopes with the reality instituted by God, then reality must be addressed. Man's interference must be ignored and His creation/reality recognized.
Pope Constantine is like any other man, but in a robe. He had no authority to change the date of Christ's birth, but did so to obfuscate the pagan celebrations of the day. Man has no authority unless imbued by God Almighty, no more or less. While I don't like "raining on anyone's parade", I refuse to honor what God, in His infinite wisdom, hasn't.
The birth, burial and resurrection is of far greater import than His birth. It is through these He provided His salvation of all mankind that follow His word.
This is not compatible with this:
Quote from: Captain O on December 19 2015 11:38:38 PM MST
I would apologize, but in my humble opinion, critical thinking should reign over emotionalism.
Even a cursory application of critical thinking to the subject of the judeo-christian god shows he does not exist.
If god were omnipotent, as that theology teaches, then he is not good, given the suffering in the world. A truly omnipotent being could achieve his ends without, for instance, having little children suffer from cancer, or starvation, or child rape. The power to achieve any goal without suffering is clearly a power he either doesn't have (not omnipotent) or doesn't use (not good).
On the contrary. As His creation, He honors us with free moral agency. He permits things to happen so that we, as His children can react accordingly. We can choose to react negatively or positively. God permitted Satan to do everything to Job, save for taking his life. In the end, Job turned his back on his circumstances an praised the Almighty God. As a result, God restored everything to Job many times over.
If you look at His creation and the divine structure, it is foolish to deny His existence. Empirical data establishes his existence. The possibility of this planet "accidentally" being in the proper position to support living things is even more than astronomic, it is nearly impossible.
No, my friends, suffering in this world does not come from God, it is there to further glorify Him. (Look in the back of the book, God wins and Satan loses).
Again...Omnipotent.
That would include the ability to construct a universe in which free moral agency was respected without suffering. In point of fact, he could have just skipped the evil people, not allowing them to exist.
And, this doesn't address cancer, or the noxious little worm that incubates in human eyeballs.
Look, you want to choose to believe in god, that is fine with me. I make that choice. But don't try to justify your arbitrary decision as in some way supported by empirical fact. It is not.
In fact, He says it can't be, as the purpose of this life is to live by faith. Empirical fact would provide evidence which would replace faith with a sure knowledge. Ergo, if there is actual evidence of god, then he doesn't exist because he has decreed there can be no evidence of god.
Quote from: Captain O on September 01 2016 12:30:38 PM MDT
Quote from: redbaron007 on September 01 2016 08:59:09 AM MDT
You are more than welcome to not celebrate the birth. However, for you to say other shouldn't is now just your opinion and like arm pits, everyone has a couple and most stink. ;)
I never claimed anyone shouldn't celebrate as they feel. I do feel opposed to sociocultural "strong arm tactics" that have been commercially foisted upon society. This is little more than emotional manipulation. I got over it years ago, but people like to engage in forcing others to bow to their will.
This happens on an annual basis.
Dude, that's life.....many want to control others; just like you are trying to control socialcutlure activities.
Quote from: redbaron007 on September 01 2016 01:37:48 PM MDT
Quote from: Captain O on September 01 2016 12:30:38 PM MDT
Quote from: redbaron007 on September 01 2016 08:59:09 AM MDT
You are more than welcome to not celebrate the birth. However, for you to say other shouldn't is now just your opinion and like arm pits, everyone has a couple and most stink. ;)
I never claimed anyone shouldn't celebrate as they feel. I do feel opposed to sociocultural "strong arm tactics" that have been commercially foisted upon society. This is little more than emotional manipulation. I got over it years ago, but people like to engage in forcing others to bow to their will.
This happens on an annual basis.
Dude, that's life.....many want to control others; just like you are trying to control socialcutlure activities.
I don't know this "Dude" of whom you speak. There's nothing wrong with capitalism. Turning a profit is fine, but I don't think the name of God should be made profane in a similar manner when Jesus cleared the temple. No, turning a profit in the name of Jesus' is repugnant.
But it happens every year.
Quote from: Captain O on September 01 2016 01:47:28 PM MDT
Quote from: redbaron007 on September 01 2016 01:37:48 PM MDT
Quote from: Captain O on September 01 2016 12:30:38 PM MDT
Quote from: redbaron007 on September 01 2016 08:59:09 AM MDT
You are more than welcome to not celebrate the birth. However, for you to say other shouldn't is now just your opinion and like arm pits, everyone has a couple and most stink. ;)
I never claimed anyone shouldn't celebrate as they feel. I do feel opposed to sociocultural "strong arm tactics" that have been commercially foisted upon society. This is little more than emotional manipulation. I got over it years ago, but people like to engage in forcing others to bow to their will.
This happens on an annual basis.
Dude, that's life.....many want to control others; just like you are trying to control socialcutlure activities.
I don't know this "Dude" of whom you speak. There's nothing wrong with capitalism. Turning a profit is fine, but I don't think the name of God should be made profane in a similar manner when Jesus cleared the temple. No, turning a profit in the name of Jesus' is repugnant.
But it happens every year.
To clarify, "dude" in this case is referencing you; but to be respectful, something I was amiss earlier, I'll refer to you as Mr. Dude or Captain O...whichever fits my feelings at the time. ;)
Again, your predisposition for the celebration of Christ's birth is causing your frustration. With this said, you should be irate about every religious holiday; for the culture/society, it's all about money. It's always been about the money. Since the beginning of time, many have used these events to capitalize on gaining more money/gold/furs/water etc.
Quote from: redbaron007 on September 01 2016 01:56:55 PM MDT
Quote from: Captain O on September 01 2016 01:47:28 PM MDT
Quote from: redbaron007 on September 01 2016 01:37:48 PM MDT
Quote from: Captain O on September 01 2016 12:30:38 PM MDT
Quote from: redbaron007 on September 01 2016 08:59:09 AM MDT
You are more than welcome to not celebrate the birth. However, for you to say other shouldn't is now just your opinion and like arm pits, everyone has a couple and most stink. ;)
I never claimed anyone shouldn't celebrate as they feel. I do feel opposed to sociocultural "strong arm tactics" that have been commercially foisted upon society. This is little more than emotional manipulation. I got over it years ago, but people like to engage in forcing others to bow to their will.
This happens on an annual basis.
Dude, that's life.....many want to control others; just like you are trying to control socialcutlure activities.
I don't know this "Dude" of whom you speak. There's nothing wrong with capitalism. Turning a profit is fine, but I don't think the name of God should be made profane in a similar manner when Jesus cleared the temple. No, turning a profit in the name of Jesus' is repugnant.
But it happens every year.
To clarify, "dude" in this case is referencing you; but to be respectful, something I was amiss earlier, I'll refer to you as Mr. Dude or Captain O...whichever fits my feelings at the time. ;)
Again, your predisposition for the celebration of Christ's birth is causing your frustration. With this said, you should be irate about every religious holiday; for the culture/society, it's all about money. It's always been about the money. Since the beginning of time, many have used these events to capitalize on gaining more money/gold/furs/water etc.
I never celebrate
any holiday as a commercial observation. It's about faith, not money. Your language skills reflect those of an 18-20 year old "man-child". It is evident that you have no respect for those that attempt to honor the Almighty God in a respectful manner.
Be advised; It is written: God is not mocked. This disrespect will not go unnoticed. I respect other views, obviously you do not, and have little more than a cash box in place of your soul. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes.
Good luck... (You'll need it)!
Politics and religion. There's a very good reason they don't belong in bars, and the same applies to most (non political/religious) discussion forums. The direction and result is usually predictable. So far, one member (that I know of) was booted from here for extremism, outside the scope of this place, which we are all visitors. I've removed several users from my forums for similar reasons. This site is still young, it will happen to others in time.
As far as this (off) topic is concerned, and as already pointed out, it is all about opinion. Your opinion and my opinion. Your truth and my truth. You may see my truth as opinion, and I may see your truth as opinion. Perception is reality, but that reality is only truth from your perception. People will either agree or disagree, or agree to disagree, and continue or cease a discussion. Persuasion is required to sell snake oil. If persuasion is required to sell your truth, it is only truth to you.
If you prefer to celebrate Christmas in July, you are free to do so. There is certainly a lot less commercialization (which I dislike greatly) to offend you. I feel the "reason for the season", as it were, has been commercialized into oblivion. The celebration has become a personal one for many groups and individuals, whatever their motives. Family values are being stripped from this country, one small piece at a time. Destroying the message, and the messenger, is necessary to accomplish that. It doesn't matter if you believe or not. History indicates that the message, even to non-believers, has been a rudder. The country is becoming more and more rudder-less, and I believe it is by design. That's my opinion, BTW.
In regards to the "evil" god, who would allow such hateful acts, disease, and disaster, it is all necessary, absolutely. If you do not believe in a creator, it is still necessary. We cannot truly know prosperity, never knowing destitution; never know light without dark; never know wellness without illness; never know absolute good without knowing absolute evil; and we cannot appreciate life without knowing death. These MUST be experienced. They cannot be taught. We cannot miss something we've never had, and we don't know what we don't know. For eons, it is said, people believed the Earth to be flat. I don't believe they did. The Earth was the Earth, it wasn't flat, or anything, until someone suggested it was other than what it appeared. Before that moment, the Earth had no "shape". No one discussed it (openly, that we know of), because to them, the topic didn't exist. The reality is, before you can have any notion of an assertion, you must have an opposition. This is rule (law), not opinion or theory.
Quote from: DM1906 on September 01 2016 10:20:20 PM MDT
Politics and religion. There's a very good reason they don't belong in bars, and the same applies to most (non political/religious) discussion forums. The direction and result is usually predictable. So far, one member (that I know of) was booted from here for extremism, outside the scope of this place, which we are all visitors. I've removed several users from my forums for similar reasons. This site is still young, it will happen to others in time.
As far as this (off) topic is concerned, and as already pointed out, it is all about opinion. Your opinion and my opinion. Your truth and my truth. You may see my truth as opinion, and I may see your truth as opinion. Perception is reality, but that reality is only truth from your perception. People will either agree or disagree, or agree to disagree, and continue or cease a discussion. Persuasion is required to sell snake oil. If persuasion is required to sell your truth, it is only truth to you.
If you prefer to celebrate Christmas in July, you are free to do so. There is certainly a lot less commercialization (which I dislike greatly) to offend you. I feel the "reason for the season", as it were, has been commercialized into oblivion. The celebration has become a personal one for many groups and individuals, whatever their motives. Family values are being stripped from this country, one small piece at a time. Destroying the message, and the messenger, is necessary to accomplish that. It doesn't matter if you believe or not. History indicates that the message, even to non-believers, has been a rudder. The country is becoming more and more rudder-less, and I believe it is by design. That's my opinion, BTW.
In regards to the "evil" god, who would allow such hateful acts, disease, and disaster, it is all necessary, absolutely. If you do not believe in a creator, it is still necessary. We cannot truly know prosperity, never knowing destitution; never know light without dark; never know wellness without illness; never know absolute good without knowing absolute evil; and we cannot appreciate life without knowing death. These MUST be experienced. They cannot be taught. We cannot miss something we've never had, and we don't know what we don't know. For eons, it is said, people believed the Earth to be flat. I don't believe they did. The Earth was the Earth, it wasn't flat, or anything, until someone suggested it was other than what it appeared. Before that moment, the Earth had no "shape". No one discussed it (openly, that we know of), because to them, the topic didn't exist. The reality is, before you can have any notion of an assertion, you must have an opposition. This is rule (law), not opinion or theory.
I simply try to return to a "pure" observance. I respect other faiths, and most observances. I will not debase worshiping Him by reducing it to what can be accomplished through mammon. I have no intention of offending anyone, but on the other hand, I simply ask that my beliefs (and efforts) are so respected.
Enough said.
Well, I have no problem celebrating Christ's birth. The only problem is it almost certainly did not happen in December. Shepherds would NOT be out in the fields then. The old church just decided to take over a pagan holiday so that the pagans would still have a cause to celebrate on the same day, but would get steered to the church to celebrate.
The trees: Thane Pagan worship.
Yule logs: More Pagan worship.
The exchanging of gifts: Solicitation of greed, and the inciting of greed in small children. (This is what does the most emotional/psychological damage.
What I find more important is the execution (for a crime He hadn't committed), and His ultimate resurrection as our Lord and Savior. These are the true source of our salvation. How many other "holy men" are still in their graves? Wait, that would be all of them!
His Divinity and rising from the dead is evidence enough for me. This is what truly matters.
Quote from: Captain O on November 27 2016 07:42:50 PM MST
The trees: Thane Pagan worship.
Yule logs: More Pagan worship.
The exchanging of gifts: Solicitation of greed, and the inciting of greed in small children. (This is what does the most emotional/psychological damage.
What I find more important is the execution (for a crime He hadn't committed), and His ultimate resurrection as our Lord and Savior. These are the true source of our salvation. How many other "holy men" are still in their graves? Wait, that would be all of them!
His Divinity and rising from the dead is evidence enough for me. This is what truly matters.
I have no issue with anything you wrote. But, Jesus was not just a "Holy Man." He was the son of God. Big difference there. And, if I remember correctly, Jesus asked for his disciples to commemorate his death, not, celebrate his birth. While I don't celebrate Constantine's pagan modification called Christmas, I do give family members gifts just as a family tradition which benefits the kids. They can change the date and name it something else and I merely do it for the kids.
Now, on the commercial side......
...............I hate how now as soon as the Halloween stuff is put away out comes the Xmas crap. At least they USED to wait until Thanksgiving.
Quote from: inv136 on December 07 2016 01:47:12 PM MST
Quote from: Captain O on November 27 2016 07:42:50 PM MST
The trees: Thane Pagan worship.
Yule logs: More Pagan worship.
The exchanging of gifts: Solicitation of greed, and the inciting of greed in small children. (This is what does the most emotional/psychological damage).
What I find more important is the execution (for a crime He hadn't committed), and His ultimate resurrection as our Lord and Savior. These are the true source of our salvation. How many other "holy men" are still in their graves? Wait, that would be all of them!
His Divinity and rising from the dead is evidence enough for me. This is what truly matters.
I have no issue with anything you wrote. But, Jesus was not just a "Holy Man." He was the son of God. Big difference there. And, if I remember correctly, Jesus asked for his disciples to commemorate his death, not, celebrate his birth. While I don't celebrate Constantine's pagan modification called Christmas, I do give family members gifts just as a family tradition which benefits the kids. They can change the date and name it something else and I merely do it for the kids.
Sadly, our society uses the occasion to "line it's pockets" while also "buying the affections" of people. This is the pernicious invasion of the commercial aspect of the celebration.
There are plenty of good motivations and bad motivations in the world. I can only judge inwardly as mine is the only heart I truly know.
I give gifts to my family members as a way of conveying my love and respect to them. I gladly accept the pagan influences in the Christmas celebration because the inclusion of those influences was the means of bringing the light of Christ to those pagan cultures. Seems like part of the Saviors message was about accepting goodness wherever it was found.
http://www.truthbeknown.com/
Everything in the Bible is copied from some earlier fable/myth.
.
I went to the local Walmart Christmas Eve to get a Dairy Queen gift certificate to stick in my Mom's stocking. (She loves peanut parfaits). They were already taking down the Christmas candy and putting in the Valentine's day candy.
Quote from: gandog56 on December 27 2016 08:54:18 AM MST
I went to the local Walmart Christmas Eve to get a Dairy Queen gift certificate to stick in my Mom's stocking. (She loves peanut parfaits). They were already taking down the Christmas candy and putting in the Valentine's day candy.
No one can accuse Walmart of being late in the game as far as Holiday's are concerned. This year my local Walmarts had Christmas stuff out before Halloween. :o
Here the Wal-Mart quit doing price matching of the other local stores sale ads...they are also deleting many name brand products in favor, and pushing the Great Value brand. Therefore I cross town now to shop some of the other stores more often.
Wal Mart has gotten too big for its own good...
We don't do wal-mart before 6:00 AM or after 10:00 AM. Magic window when there are no crazies there. And we don't buy much there anymore either. Costco for consumables, and Target for anything we need in small qty.
Quote from: Vice on December 27 2016 11:46:51 AM MST
Quote from: gandog56 on December 27 2016 08:54:18 AM MST
I went to the local Walmart Christmas Eve to get a Dairy Queen gift certificate to stick in my Mom's stocking. (She loves peanut parfaits). They were already taking down the Christmas candy and putting in the Valentine's day candy.
No one can accuse Walmart of being late in the game as far as Holiday's are concerned. This year my local Walmarts had Christmas stuff out before Halloween. :o
One time the local Walmart had Christmas stuff out at the same time as the back-to-school stuff was out. Yes that was before Halloween. Now they put it out after Halloween.
Quote from: Captain O on November 27 2016 07:42:50 PM MSTHow many other "holy men" are still in their graves? Wait, that would be all of them!
His Divinity and rising from the dead is evidence enough for me. This is what truly matters.
Well Elijah had no grave as he was carried away to heaven. So he didn't even have to die first.
Elijah never tasted death. The only other holy man that never was buried. Of course, that was God's will.