Hickock45 just did a review of the Sig P220 10mm.
Here is the link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8znYP12MLs
"Now there's one disadvantage, low capacity."
That about sums up why I won't be buying one.
Biggest drawback to me of the Sig 10mm. Would love to see a Sig 227 in 10mm. I guess I should get a 220 so they see enough interest to make the right gun.
Pretty good review. He points out capacity though and I can't understand why Sig didn't opt for more.
Don't mind the capacity issue. Great gun.
It's a great gun... I wouldn't buy one until they offer an equal to my others... high capacity 8)
Like the fact Sig responded to the 10mm outcry. Think they will make capacity better. Hopefully poly version.
If you think you will need more than 9 rounds of 10mm seems to me you ought to be carrying an AR. I mean how many times does anyone using a high cap actually fire more than that (excluding NYC cops with 15 pound triggers)? I also exclude mad spraying of all ammo in the pistol in panic mode from the "need" category. I seem to recall revolvers being perfectly functional in a law enforcement capacity for many years and how many rounds did they hold? I've absolutely no argument with those wanting high capacity but doubt the actual as opposed to the perceived need. And FYI, it seems Sig 10 round 45ACP mags for the 220 will work in the 10 increasing capacity to 12 rounds if I remember correctly. To each his or her own though.
Quote from: Sneed on December 12 2015 09:19:18 AM MST
If you think you will need more than 9 rounds of 10mm seems to me you ought to be carrying an AR. I mean how many times does anyone using a high cap actually fire more than that (excluding NYC cops with 15 pound triggers)? I also exclude mad spraying of all ammo in the pistol in panic mode from the "need" category. I seem to recall revolvers being perfectly functional in a law enforcement capacity for many years and how many rounds did they hold? I've absolutely no argument with those wanting high capacity but doubt the actual as opposed to the perceived need. And FYI, it seems Sig 10 round 45ACP mags for the 220 will work in the 10 increasing capacity to 12 rounds if I remember correctly. To each his or her own though.
Nine rds of 10mm is fine for me and I do use the 10 rd 45 mags at the range and the work flawlessly plus actually hold 11 of the 10mm for a 12 shooter. I also have a G 20. I really like my Sig 10mm DA/SA.
Depends about more rounds. Where I live, it's paramount more than 9 rounds. But I carry a Glock.
Sneed, I agree about the probability of needing more than 10 rounds being slight. For that matter, needing more than 2-3 is slight. A small 5-shot 357 mag has more capacity than is needed in 99% of the defensive shootings that occur, and is more reliable than a semi-auto as well. Even a Glock.
On the other hand, what if you end up in a defensive shooting that is in the 0.1%, and you settled for 9 rounds?
An Ar-15 is impractical to carry on a day by day basis. If I thought I was going to be in a firefight, I would have one. My goal is to be as prepared as is reasonable should that unlikely eventuality arise. And that means if I can select to have a gun with two spare mags, they will add up to about 45-50 rounds, not 28 rounds, all else equal.
I don't think I will need any of them. The crime rate is very low where I live. But if I do, I won't die because I ran out of ammo early in the fight.
--Edit Your username? Patrick F McManus fan?
I enjoyed the video as I always do with Hickok.
One thing I noticed was that I have never seen Hickok miss with that many shots before. He mentioned that he had shot it quite a bit the day before the filming.
Is it that he was not used to the pistol, or the pistol, or just my imagination?
He was also saying something about a sore hand and that was why he was using the LULA? Don't know which hand...
I have one of the new Sigs in 10mm and fit to the hand and trigger are precisely why I went with it. I had three different Glocks in 10mm and I am not missing them.
If I can't get it done in 9 rounds it isn't going to get done. Much easier to get superior accuracy over my Glocks... I don't mind Glocks but I do like this much better.
I don't view this new Sig as a primary defense hand gun though it would certainly work. As to bear defense, seems like nothing is working in South East Idaho (Island Park and Teton area)
Lots of Grizzly attacks in the last couple years...all but one were ambush attacks and the one is unknown (hiker eaten, no way to know). By accounts, none of them had time to do anything.
Bow hunter said he had a hand gun but no time to get to it. He got chewed up sum but got the bear to stop by sticking his arm down it's throat (was in last issue of American Hunter).
Round count can matter but probably more in a extended gun battle than anything.
As far as my view on the round count difference between the Sig and the Glock...where it applies (and I believe this is where it may), it makes no difference.
I saw this on a forum recently and saved it because in applications such as this, I think the difference is mute:
"Start with the pepper spray, this is what the State of Alaska recommends because your odds of surviving are greater than starting with a pistol.
IF, the spray is ineffective in stopping a charging bear you will most likely be in contact distance so fast you will not get many if any shots off. However, if you have icewater for blood and exceptional pistol shooting skills you may be able to fire before the pain begins. If this is you then you are not asking too much from the 10mm with heavy HC loads because they will penetrate the skull and you are familiar with the Glock. If this is not you then a .40+ caliber revolver loaded with heavy HC that will not malfunction when pressed between you and the bear is a much better choice. Expect to die and be happy when you are only maimed. Good Luck".
Regardless that I personally don't have a want for one, it is a very nice firearm in it's own right. Hickock45's video was great as usual. I was left with 3 questions in mind after the video, one of which I was able to find the answer on at SIG's website which was a barrel length of 5.0". The other 2 questions I'm left without answers to are;
What is the recoil spring weight?
and
How good or bad is the 6 o'clock chamber support? Is it more like a Kimber 10mm Auto barrel which is super awesome, is it more like a Colt DE barrel which is super horrible, or is it in between like the Glock barrels in 10mm Auto?
One thing Hickock45 repeatedly mentioned was the heavier SLIDE weight of the P220 over the G20 and in general, and mostly relating to less felt recoil. Obviously a lot of the weight of the P220 over the G20 would be frame related and I wonder if that's more what he meant at least some of the time. Or is it that there is a notable between the actual SLIDE weights of the P220 and G20. I don't know.
I can't imagine the slide weighs that much more than a G20. The G20 weight is mostly slide, 22.3oz out of 30.6 oz is slide, barrel and RSA.
That means the Glock 20 frame+magazine is only 27% of the weight of the gun. Like the to Witness (57%) and my 1911 wide body(53%), I gotta think the Sig would carry most of it's additional weight in the frame.
No. Sneed Hearn was one of WC Fields's fictitious names.
Quote from: sqlbullet on December 12 2015 11:06:39 AM MST
--Edit Your username? Patrick F McManus fan?
I have the 220 Elite (two tone).
Took pictures, but the images were too big :)
The entire cartridge is supported by the chamber.
The slide weight without barrel and spring is:
14.85 oz
14.85 slide along is well under the G20, and even under the G29:
http://10mm-firearms.com/10mm-semi-auto-handguns/10mm-handgun-spec-sheet/
cgreth, could you also post the following weights?
Complete pistol with a magazine
slide assembly
barrel
That would allow me to complete the spec info on the above thread for this gun.
Quote from: cgreth on December 13 2015 12:47:13 PM MSTThe entire cartridge is supported by the chamber.
That is awesome, and a first outside of a T/C Contender! Sure would like to see a pic or two.
I sent a PM offering to host the pictures. Sounds interesting!
Complete weight of pistol and empty factory magazine - 2 lbs and 12.25 oz
Slide with barrel and spring - 1 lb and 4.70 oz
Barrel only - 4.30 oz
Under zoom which i did for the pictures, there is a very thin portion of the cartridge that is unsupported by the feed ramp. Still looks too small to be an issue with case bulges, smileys or blow outs.
[attachment deleted by admin]
That is really good case head support
One thing I haven't noticed is the barrel rate of twist...
Does anyone know the rate of twist ?
One of the owners here would have to be bribed to measure the twist, cause it isn't posted with the specs on their website.
Usually isn't a huge concern on stubby little handgun bullets. For a 200 grain 10mm 1:29 is adequate to stabilize.
Quote from: ppro on December 14 2015 09:04:13 PM MST
One thing I haven't noticed is the barrel rate of twist...
Does anyone know the rate of twist ?
That's a good question, but it's not listed or discussed with any conclusions by them. Typically, it should be 1:15 or 16, like the majority of the other common pistol calibers. None of the available .40 caliber bullets require faster than about 1:24 with the greatest SD. Faster is not, necessarily, better, as it typically increases peak pressures and decreases velocity. It can also affect bullet construction integrity, if too fast. As SQL said, 200 gr. bullets in this caliber, and any that may be used, are well within the scale of practical.
Well if someone measures it, let us know...specs could be updated. I am aware of common specs for twist, just wondering what they picked.
Quote from: cgreth on December 14 2015 03:44:42 PM MSTUnder zoom which i did for the pictures, there is a very thin portion of the cartridge that is unsupported by the feed ramp. Still looks too small to be an issue with case bulges, smileys or blow outs.
That's not entire cartridge support but it is clearly better support than my stock Glock barrels. The Storm Lake barrel for my G20 looks like about the same support at 6 o'clock but is better around the sides. Kimber still has all our aforementioned barrels beat.
Here's a pic of my Storm Lake barrel support (6.02" barrel for my G20);
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/P1000133-crop_zpse435e192.jpg)
Though it's not a 10mm barrel, The_Shadow has a Bar-Sto 40S&W barrel for his S&W 1006 with awesome chamber support that he's posted pics of in the past.
Quote from: Intercooler on December 11 2015 06:00:41 PM MST
It's a great gun... I wouldn't buy one until they offer an equal to my others... high capacity 8)
I totally agree! If I am going to carry a large pistol, then it isn't going to be something without at least 13 rounds in a magazine. I don't see the point. If I am going to carry something with lower capacity, it is going to be something tiny like my Glock 42.
However, I am happy to see more manufacturers building great 10mm's even if it is something that I won't be buying. We need more 10's on the market, particularly ones from great companies like Sig.
What Sneed said! 1+
The good news is you can pick your poison as to capacity.... I have had the Glocks, they never really fit my hands...at all, nor do most high capacity in 40 or 45 though I have a number of them. In gun fights fast and accurate is most likely to come out on top. The old I must have 13 rounds ish is to me, more a matter of comfort but in the end, training, speed and mental preparation trumps. If you have little of those, high round count will only save you if you are lucky, and I don't trust to luck nor do those serious about surviving a gun fight.
What's the gun fight hit rate by trained LE? Why did the term "spray and pray" originate? With the obvious exception of Hollywood Actors, I'd say capacity matters for those .01% of .00001%.
And by the indisputable statistics recognized by anyone who knows how to count, the odds of any of us dying or finding ourselves in a gun fight falls just a tad bit below heart disease. People who can afford our toys don't hang much in the crack hoods. We should worry more about gym time and what's in our refrigerator. Guns are a super fun hobby, but to believe they provide a significant real world benefit on the list of threats to us or our family is a ginormous leap.
With that said I edc, own various NFA items, more guns than I will admit too including a 1076, and Glock 40. But my high cholesterol scares me much more than an armed attack.
PS. I love this site, the folks with an interest in such things as a 10mm are an interesting and intelligent bunch. And I' promise to do my darndest to dilute that. ?
Spray & pray..........Recon by fire. About the same thing other than one gets to wear a uniform for the latter. :)
Except for your last sentence I'd tend to agree with most of your post. Doubt you can dilute the level after I've been here first. :))
Btw: Welcome to the site. Do you also post on the GA OT site? Your 'handle' seems familiar.
Quote from: Patriot on December 10 2015 08:11:50 PM MST
"Now there's one disadvantage, low capacity."
That about sums up why I won't be buying one.
My philosophy, if you need more than eight, you should be running, not shooting!
Plus I usually hit whats I aims at!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Gandog56/dwgroup.jpg)
Found this little Easter egg yesterday but no other references to it. P220 10mm emporer scorpion da/SA? Yes please.
http://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=SI220R510ESCPN
I like DA/SA. Makes me feel safer when I am carrying.
Quote from: gandog56 on March 27 2016 03:30:03 PM MDT
I like DA/SA. Makes me feel safer when I am carrying.
I would like a DA/SA, but that two tone just looks like an abomination to me. The emperor really piques my interest for that reason.
I was skeptical about the 2 tone, but I now like it. It even moved me to buy the 2 tone Bruin.
I love my SIG P229 two tone. But all my 10mm pistols are all sigle color.
The 10mm Sig comes in all black & all stainless. Just the SAO models. That DA/SA is two tone.
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