I have an old 9x21 race gun that I bought off a friend he needed money
Ammo's not a problem I reload. My question is what would it take to make it a 9x23.
Quote from: hnusz on September 18 2015 05:43:43 PM MDT
I have an old 9x21 race gun that I bought off a friend he needed money
Ammo's not a problem I reload. My question is what would it take to make it a 9x23.
Here is some information. I is not necessarily for you, because you may already know most of it. It is for anyone that reads this thread and doesn't know anything about the 9x21 or 9x23.
9x21 is basically a 9mm Luger (9x19, 9mm NATO) with a 2mm longer case. Everything else is the same. It is basically a 9mm Luger for countries that don't allow their civilians to have a military cartridge.
The 9x21 has an operation pressure of 35,000 PSI (just like the 9mm Luger). The 9x23 has an operating pressure of 55,000 PSI (rifle pressures). Not all guns can handle that much pressure. Usually a 9x23 gun will be made from a 45ACP or 10mm size gun.
The 9x21 cartridge will fit in a small frame gun (9mm Luger, 40S&W, or 357SIG). The 9x23 cartridge is longer (the same length as 10mm and 45ACP) and won't fit in the smaller framed guns/magazines. It was designed for 45ACP size guns like the 1911.
If you have a large frame gun that will fit the longer 9x23 cartridge, all you would need is a 9x23 chamber reamer, and most likely a heavier recoil spring. The reamers are around $70 +shipping from Brownell's. I do not know about the springs because I don't know which gun you have
If your racegun is a 1911 type gun, you should be able to find a 9x23 barrel somewhere.
http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/cartridge-review-9x23-winchester/
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my_old_glock, gave great answer there! Another thing is many use compensators on their barrels with the 9x23 which helps with slide velocities as well as muzzle climb.
Yes it's a 1911 and it's comped. I will try to post a picture of it when I get a chance. Going to be out of town for a few days.
Got it out to take to the range last week. It's an eaa witness custom comp. Can't get my phone to post pictures laptop is down. How hot can I load powder coated lead. I load 115fmj up around 1300 fps don't remember the load off hand books out in garage. Can I do the same load with the 115gr I cast for my 9mm. Thanks
You should be able to run at those speeds with the polymer coated bullets...but only testing will tell.
I shoot my 125 grain cast and lubed with White Label Lube Carnauba Red (rated at 2500 fps) 9mm bullets at 1750 fps from the 9x25Dillon and 1425 fps from the 357Sig...
Quote from: hnusz on October 21 2015 07:59:43 PM MDT
Got it out to take to the range last week. It's an eaa witness custom comp. Can't get my phone to post pictures laptop is down. How hot can I load powder coated lead. I load 115fmj up around 1300 fps don't remember the load off hand books out in garage. Can I do the same load with the 115gr I cast for my 9mm. Thanks
You have a cool piece of history their friend. Think of it like owning a classic top fuel dragster, of the race gun world. Since I was playing the game back then, (yea, I'm old) let me give you a bit of history.
Back in the 90's, USPSA still banned the use of 9 Luger for major power factor in open division, so there were two camps. 2011 shooters, using 38 Super, 9 Largo (grandfather to the 9X23) and even 9X25 Dillon. the other camp was shooting the EAA 9X21.
All of these guns were built to handle the loads necessary to make the required 170 power factor for major scoring, (bullet weight in grains X velocity / 1000) so your gun may not function reliably with reduced loads.
Just for reference, here's a link to a collection of loading data Jeff Maass accumulated back in the day.http://www.k8nd.com/ipscload.htm (http://www.k8nd.com/ipscload.htm)
IIRC the two most popular powders were VV 3N37 and WW571/HS7 with 124/5 gr jacketed bullets. Today, HS7/WW571 is discontinued and 3N37 is hard to find and expensive when you do.
First, I would recommend shooting only jacketed bullets. Not plated, not coated, but real drawn copper jacketed bullets. Cleaning lead and wanbe like jackets out of a comp is tiresome and frustrating. (I know some open shooters, who learned the hard way with cheaper bullets, who ended up sending their comp to a gunsmith to ream the bullet crap out of it on a mill.)
For powders, I'd recommend trying HS6. Back when USPSA lowered the power factor to 165 and allowed 9 Luger in open division, many 9X21 shooters switch to the cheaper HS6 in their EAA till their 9 Lugers were built.
With 115 or 124/5 gr bullets, start with max loads for 9 Luger with HS6 and increase in small increments (.02 gr) till the gun starts cycling reliably. And enjoy that classic race gun.
Hope this helps.
Jeff
Yes it helps thank you. I will look for some hs6 and pick up some 115 gr fmj. I was out and did not want to buy anymore if I could use my own cast and powder coated.
Could not find any hs6. 3n37 was 50 bucks a pound :o. Picked up some Wst. Going to put a witness in 38 super in layaway next week. Here's a picture of the 9x21. Not letting me post picture said it's to big will try it by itself.
Still to large.
https://imageshack.com/i/p5QpZz (https://imageshack.com/i/p5QpZz)
Another thought is that you could leave it a 9x21 chamber, and just load the bullets to 9x23 length: That is if they will fit in the chamber. You will also need a 38 Super or 9x23 magazine if you don't already have one. Take one of your 9x21 pieces of brass and load a dummy round to 1.260" - 1.300", and see if it will fit in the chamber. If it does, just load it hotter than the 9x21, and work your way up until the brass starts to bulge, or until you get to the ax load for 9x23. Your 9x21 brass may not be strong enough. You may need to get 9x23 brass and trim it to 9x21 length. It would be easier that way than reaming the chamber to 9x23.
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I'm going to leave it a 9x21. Lgs has a witness in 38 super I'm going to put a down payment on it.