I do. Know before we get started down the road to perdition, I know full well that shot placement rules stopping power. BUT! The fact that so much more energy is behind every 10mm makes think it HAS to do more damage than most handguns?
Anyway, thought I would get things started on a Thursday night here.
Pat
Human size???
I can fire my 9mm CZ much more rapidly and stay on target much easier.
10mm hits harder.
If it was two face to face blasting at each other, better make the first round count with the 10mm, or you would have two 9mm rounds in you before you get another trigger pull.
My every day carry is 9mm, and its not +p. Lower recoil has its benefits.
Greg
Gman;
I know, that is the flip side of the record. I wonder if there are any statistics on how many times the first shot hits vs. the 2nd and 3rd? All of the stories I hear and video I see seem like after the 1st shot the situation just goes wild, movement all over the place and who knows what? Just wondering.
Pat
Yes...
But I run the older Silvertips. Not super hot but more than a 9mm.
I can hit the "paper plate" with the g20 just as well as with my 9mm.... But then I also practice drawing from cover which IS very important as much as placement.
My run is usu 2 shots to a 8/9" paper plate in the middle of a coke bottle target, re holster and repeat till clip is empty. 10 rounds in a 9" circle via two tap is good enough for me. Btw at 15-20 ft.
You will hear from someone that places all pistol capabilities in the same boat, and energy doesn't mean much.
I believe differently. I believe in the energy does work. The problem is a man sized animal requires about 1000 ft-lb to be minimally effective. That is around the level of a 44 magnum as the minimum "man killer" 10mm maxes out at around 700 ft-lb.
Assume you will need multiple rounds. That goes for 9mm, 10mm, 40 S&W, 357, 38, and most rounds designed for pistol.
There is no correct answer. Its what you train with, what your comfortable with, and what your confident with. Its what pistol you will have with you. Use ammo that has proved reliable. Really, it should be rare to agree between two CC holders because they likely have different needs and beliefs. Just train and carry what ever your choice is. For me its 9mm sub compact in summer (IWB) and either that or a G20 (OWB) when under winter coats.
Greg
10mm in the minimum handgun caliber I trust my life with. I'll carry smaller in the heat of the summer, but I don't like it. In the wilderness I carry 10mm if I need something light, or .44 mag if weight isn't an issue. I've tagged a black bear with one shot doubletap ammo beartooth 200 gr hard cast. My rifle was up against a tree and I knew it would have ran if I made any sudden movements to get grab my rifle. I wouldn't have even attempted to take a black bear with anything less than a 10mm. I don't care what these "experts" say. I don't trust the new FBI data and their reasoning for switching to 9mm. All you have to do is read police reports or watch cop videos of them pumping 5-10 rounds into a suspect with 9mm to know that report is garbage. A 9mm won't drop a bear with one shot, and it won't stop a human in one shot. 10mm will.
Carry the most powerful gun you can fully conceal and with which you can run an el-presidente drill in 8-10 seconds. For me, that is a 10mm, usually a Witness or 1911 style, though I have a Glock 29 for minimal occasions.
And yes, it is no secret that all else being equal you are better armed with a more powerful gun. The debates are about the trade-offs that often come with a more powerful gun, eg, the things that aren't equal.
And that is why I like my Para. 17+1 rounds, so no compromise on capacity. It is big and heavy, but with a good IWB I can conceal it and I don't mind the weight. And I can run that gun just fine.
Others may differ in preference which is fine with me.
For me it is either the G-29 or if in close quarters like restaurants or stores G-30.
After messing with the Ruger LCP 380, there just isn't enough gun frame for good pistol control.
Yes I do! I normally carry the Glock 29. I don't see a need for smaller, it conceal rather easy, and is comfortable in several holsters I have for it. I like it better than the Glock 27 as I can get more of my big hands on the 29 for a better grip - although I do rotate the 27 in every once in a while.
Funny story, I had some old computer hard drives that I didn't know what was on them so I didn't want to donate - I took them out to where I shot and hung them next to my steel gongs and shot them with the 27 and 29, I never would have thought the 40 S&W would not go all the way through the drives (all bullets where lodged into the HDD cases), whereas the 10mm just left nice holes all the way through ejecting all the broken disk material out the back - not a valid test of anything, but kind of made me feel more confident with the 29 as my carry choice!
I never feel undergunned with my G29sf or my G20. I believe that stopping a threat is better accomplished with a larger more powerful caliber. If you have the same shot placement with a full power 10m vs a smaller caliber the energy delivered will do more damage IMHO. It is my experience that the 10mm is a more accurate round than other semi-auto calibers i have fired. The 29 conceals as well as most 9,.40 and,.45 caliber firearms. With my 10mm I do feel I have an edge.
I have never seen convincing evidence that 9mm can penetrate and cause similar damage to a 10mm. I do not buy that two poorer hits necessarily are better than one better hit. Why don't we all shoot .22s?
Shootability is a combination of recoil and platform. I am not all that much slower with a 1911 10mm than I am with a G23. I can dump a 9-round Kimber mag into an 8.5X11in sheet of paper only a portion of a second slower than the same number of rounds from the G23. Frankly I've never had much use for anything below 40SW.
I don't claim any of this to be anything but personal opinion, but everyone needs to feel confident in what they carry.
Patriot (and all others);
I have been shooting for about 15 years, very seriously within the last two years. Over the last 10-15 years I have talked to over a dozen former military (mostly Army and Marine) who went into combat with their 9mm. And TO A PERSON, everyone said they felt under-gunned with the 9mm and given a choice would have carried almost anything else. Several said (of those admitting to actual firefights where they had to use their handgun) that it was common to have to get 2,3+ rounds into a bad guy before they collapsed/gave up/slowed up. Kind of reminded my of those electronic games where it takes seemingly forever to bring a villain down with certain weapons or with tougher and tougher villains.
I am REALLY not trying to stir debate, just wondering if anyone else felt more confident with our favorite bullet and launching pad.
Pat
Quote from: Patriot on July 24 2015 08:36:13 AM MDT
10mm in the minimum handgun caliber I trust my life with. I'll carry smaller in the heat of the summer, but I don't like it. In the wilderness I carry 10mm if I need something light, or .44 mag if weight isn't an issue. I've tagged a black bear with one shot doubletap ammo beartooth 200 gr hard cast. My rifle was up against a tree and I knew it would have ran if I made any sudden movements to get grab my rifle. I wouldn't have even attempted to take a black bear with anything less than a 10mm. I don't care what these "experts" say. I don't trust the new FBI data and their reasoning for switching to 9mm. All you have to do is read police reports or watch cop videos of them pumping 5-10 rounds into a suspect with 9mm to know that report is garbage. A 9mm won't drop a bear with one shot, and it won't stop a human in one shot. 10mm will.
Very comforting to know that my round of choice can take a strong beast like that so well. I carry my Glock 29 as often as I can when clothing allows. Summertime has me carrying my LC9s often but I'd rather carry a 10mm. Wish Smith or any company would offer a Shield or something similar in 10mm. I understand they would have to become beefier but not to the point where they are as thick as most doublestacks.
Here in Pennsylvania we get for the most part 3 months of hot weather. Come late Sept, early October temps begin to drop. Depending where I spend time locally on foot, it's my 9mm in hot months employing my SCCY CPX2 regular pressured factory rnds with an extra mag or 2.Fall/Winter the 9 becomes a back up piece or the primary. I say that as the SCCY is in coat pocket and it depends on situation at hand.Employed from Oct to Mid May, either the G20 or Sig 220 .45. Sig for local foot travel and G20 for road travel/hot zones.
A G20 rides in the trunk of my unmarked police car loaded with two mags of Hornady 155 grain XTP.
We carry 9mm as an issued duty round. But in a SHTF situation the G20 gets the nod.
Secretly?
What's that huge bulge in your pants or are you glad to see me?
All depends on the situation. Yeah one deranged whacko, 10mm plenty firepower. Riot, unknown quantity of BG's trying to break into my house, I'm breaking out the AK with the 30 round mags.
I don't know a lot about physics but a bigger bullet at a higher velocity has got to be better. Right now I carry 10mm exclusively and before that 45acp. I always chose stopping power over capacity but with my 10mm Glocks I've got both.
I think given the penetration necessities of stopping a bad guy and that 9,40, 45 all get deep enough that the extra recoil is not really doing that much. In a hunting situation you are shooting from say 25-50yards where the velocity helps and also you get much more time to take a shot at a target that doesnt know he is facing armed opposition.
"To each their own."
With regard to the OP...
Absolutely yes and no question about it IMHO. The all around flexibility of the caliber to perform well in almost any situation in which a semi-auto handgun could reasonably excel makes it a great choice. Nothing magic, just all around strong performer in many, many areas.
With respect to recoil concerns...my view is it's subjective perception of the individual shooter; heavily influenced by many factors not the least of which is training. No not saying hot as hell 10mm as docile to shoot as 22LR for most shooters. However, Jerry Miculek shoots a 50 cal desert eagle faster than I shoot a 22LR. For that matter he shoots a 50 cal Barrett free hand faster than I can shoot same 22LR too.
Well ... How about I feel an extra level of confidence with " more than aaverage powerful " round ? This also includes full power .357Mag , 9mm+P+ , .45acp & O+P .For backwoods include Ruger level .45LC .