I am thinking about getting an ar pistol for home defense with the intent of turning it into an sbr at some point. My issue is caliber my debate is mainly between .223 or 9mm. I like the power of the 223 but the noise and flash are major drawbacks in my mind hence the 9mm option.
Quote from: 10mmfan on July 17 2015 09:18:40 AM MDT
...with the intent of turning it into an sbr at some point...
There you go. If you are going to get one tax stamp anyway, make it two and suppress that gun. 223 SBR Suppressed would make a great HDW.
That's the correct answer. SBR + can, FTW. In the mean time, you could keep some active ear muffs next to the rifle.
Some motivation:
(http://i62.tinypic.com/1z70tbb.jpg)
The one I am slowly building is 223, even with the shorter barrel I will have more stopping power than a 9mm.. Plus the muzzle blast alone is enough to stun or scare off most anything.
It will eventually be an integrally suppressed sbr.
I am tempted to go 762x39 instead but not sure if there are any truly reliable magazines.
Quote from: rw on July 17 2015 01:17:32 PM MDT
The one I am slowly building is 223, even with the shorter barrel I will have more stopping power than a 9mm.. Plus the muzzle blast alone is enough to stun or scare off most anything.
It will eventually be an integrally suppressed sbr.
I am tempted to go 762x39 instead but not sure if there are any truly reliable magazines.
It strikes me 300 blackout would fit what your looking for.
Quote from: 10mmfan on July 17 2015 03:04:00 PM MDT
Quote from: rw on July 17 2015 01:17:32 PM MDT
The one I am slowly building is 223, even with the shorter barrel I will have more stopping power than a 9mm.. Plus the muzzle blast alone is enough to stun or scare off most anything.
It will eventually be an integrally suppressed sbr.
I am tempted to go 762x39 instead but not sure if there are any truly reliable magazines.
It strikes me 300 blackout would fit what your looking for.
I am tempted to do a 300, but trying to avoid yet another caliber..
If i swap my savage bolt gun over to 300 then the ar will be in that.
I like it the other way around. I like pistol rounds in rifles. I have a Mechtech kit to convert my 10mm 1911 to a carbine. I want a Henry that will shoot a .454 Casull cartridge.
IMHO AR pistols SUCK. There I wrote it.
My carbine AR is in 300 blackout. Wish I could find some AA #1680 so I could afford to shoot it as well as work up my cast boolit loads for it.
Quote from: Pablo on July 17 2015 04:52:10 PM MDT
IMHO AR pistols SUCK. There I wrote it.
Well, with such a well reasoned and beautifully articulated argument, how could anyone dispute your position?
Just not at all comfortable to shoot. Awkward and hard to be accurate with.
Agree as a transition to a SBR, sort of a beautiful swan song. Give me a SBR AR carbine made as light as possible and I'm good.
(http://pws.cablespeed.com/~pablomail//10mmwmin.JPG)
Quote from: Pablo on July 17 2015 05:59:00 PM MDT
Just not at all comfortable to shoot. Awkward and hard to be accurate with.
Agree as a transition to a SBR, sort of a beautiful swan song. Give me a SBR AR carbine made as light as possible and I'm good.
(http://pws.cablespeed.com/~pablomail//10mmwmin.JPG)
I partially agree with the comfort/accuracy issues but for me they feel more natural than a lot of rifles due I am a former paintballer. I used to go out every Saturday and Sunday and go through 4k+ a weekend and I did it for years. Mind you my natural stance with it is canted due to it feeling like a paintball gun.
ARs have virtually no recoil and F troop didn't say anything about bracing a buffer tube against your cheek. Alternatively, you can use the European technique of pressing the weapon out against a skiing to stabilize. If it's for home defense, you don't need to be super accurate.
If they still have the recoils deallie that comes way back into and past your grip,.. SILLY
I mean if silly is what you want thats cool, but i choose Krinkov. (Im poor, by Krinkov i mean making pew pew pew sounds with my G20 imagining it was a Krinkov.. Did i mention my other pistol is a Hi-Point CF380?)
I ordered a lower now I just have to decide barrel length/caliber. I am leaning towards a 5.56 10 1/2" 1:7 barrel any advice?
Quote from: 10-7 leo on July 18 2015 08:50:28 AM MDT
If you look at the velocity of a 55gr. .223 out of a pistol length barrel (7") and compare it to the velocity of a 124gr. 9mm from a longer than normal pistol barrel (7'), the 9mm actually has more energy than the .223.
No. Not even close. Use http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com (http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com) to find velocities and whatever calculator you want to find energy. I used http://www.shooterscalculator.com/bullet-kinetic-energy.php (http://www.shooterscalculator.com/bullet-kinetic-energy.php). The muzzle energy for the .223 is almost double that of the 9mm from the same 7" barrel.
Did the math:
ME = 1/2mv^2
ME = (Mass * Velocity^2)/450435 (the constant at the bottom is 7000 gr/lb * 32.1739 ft^2/sec^2 * 2, this normalizes weight in grains to mass in slugs and takes care of the 1/2 business by multiplying the denominator by 2)
So:
9MM 125gr Corbon +P @1329 from 7" bbl, hottest load on ballistics by the inch
ME = (1329*1329*125)/450435 = 490.149
9mm 124gr Federal Hydra Shok @1161 from 7" bbl, standard 124 grain load
ME = (1161*1161*124)/450435 = 374.061
Remington UMC 55gr @2190 from 7" Carbon 15
ME = (2190*2190*55)/450435 = 585.624
I should have all my parts in over the next couple weeks. I went with a 300blk with a 10.5" barrel. It seemed like a better candidate to suppress in the future.
Sounds fun. Hope you enjoy it.
Quote from: Brian B. on July 21 2015 08:25:28 PM MDT
( Did I mention my other pistol is a Hi-Point CF380?)
I pity da fool! :P
Nah, just jerkin your chain.... 8)
what ever you do make sure you test a bunch of different brands and bullet weights of ammo, ar pistols are really picky about their ammo my son and I have 2 of them built identical and mine is partial to 55 grn. 5.56 and higher velocity loads and his will eat anything in 62 grain and don't like 55 grn. unless it is the cheap steel case or lower velocity .223
This has a lot to do with the gas system and barrel length. 11.5" barrels with carbine gas systems usually do pretty well because they have adequate dwell time. 10.5" barrels with carbine gas systems can be more troublesome and folks have done back flips to get 7" barrels to run right. My 11.5" SBR runs everything except cheap steel case stuff when the can is off. Without the silencer, it short strokes about two to three times in a magazine and never locks back on an empty mag. With the silencer, it runs like a raped ape. With or without the can, it runs any other ammo just fine. If it was an issue and I really wanted it to run that type of ammo unsuppressed, I could have the gas port opened up, but that would increase bolt carrier velocity for all the other loads, too, which increases wear.