About 15 minutes after daylight she and several others came rite up the fence row i was sitting in between 2 cut corn fields. 15-20 yards quartered to me a shad more than i would've liked, but the shot was there and i felt pretty good for distance. I am more than comfortable with that range keeping my shots every bit of inside a pop can. Corbon 135gr JHP @ 1450fps (factory projected) proved instant Lights Out. The Corbons were my ammo of choice because of the 3 different boxes i have, those were what i shot the most accurate and consistent. I was after a well place shot and got what i was looking for.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb122/dawgballkennels/11FirstG20deer.jpg)
Goods news... When we skinned the doe I ended up recovering the 135gr Nosler JHP. It had made it all the way (diagonally, as she was quartered to me just a tad) through the chest cavity, (where everything was just moosh ), continued through the opposite shoulder and was found in the thick fatty tissues just between the hide and meat.
I was surprised in two ways after this experience using this ammo on whitetail deer. First i was surprised when i field dressed the animal and found all the fragmentation. When at first i couldn't find the slug or an exit I just couldn't make myself believe that the entire thing just fragged apart like that. But thats what I came to... Upon finding the slug, i was even more surprised to see such a nice mushroom still intact as it should be. So it had me baffled... I was curious to see the new weight.
Here are a couple pics. The slug retained 93-94 grains(cheap scale, went back and forth). From 135 that gives 42 grains of frag. Im glad we eventually found it. It help put an ending to my doubts and misunderstanding of what had happened with the bullet.
Yes the 135gr Corbon did more than i could have asked for. I guess an exit would have been nice. Yet i realize the bullet was not designed for penetration. It did rather do exactly as it was designed to. Inside the goodies basket was pure MOOOOOSH!!!!.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb122/dawgballkennels/135grNosler1.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb122/dawgballkennels/135grNosler2.jpg)
I use XS BigDot. I love them. Very accurate when i take my time with them. Yet serve even better by the bedside!
Well that is my STOCK G20 and FACTORY ammo story for all of you. Even though i will no longer be using the Corbon 135gr JHP for deer. Ill take performance like that anytime! I've since developed a 180gr XTP handload from my 6" LW barrel that i am really liking. Ended up settling for a little lower velocity than i was expecting but wow is it accurate! I'll report on that load this coming season from the G20 and the Mech Tech CCU.
Thats a very good report. Now is that 135 grain loan the hunting load they offer?
I am working up 135 grain loads now based on the Nosler JHP. Appreciate the report.
Good stuff!
I'm interested to know more about your MechTech. I have one in 45/1911 that has been excellent, but was thinking of buying another in 10mm/Glock flavor. Are you happy with yours?
Although I'd never use the 135 for whitetail hunting, I KNOW FOR A FACT that they are devastating in targets and melons alike. Like a bomb going off. I like the WFNGC at high speed for deer, but anything 180gr and up would probably be fine and, as you and a few others have shown, the lighter 10mm stuff works okay, too! Placement is everything!
Good job and thanks for the report!
Nice deer. And, good that you've shown a great example of the capability of the 135gr Nolser bullet that is capable of much more than most will give it credit for, as they generally have no clue what they're talking about, basing their claims on assumption.
Yup, nothing like a little real world evidence to shut the naysayers up.
That doe is bigger than some of our bucks down here, good job.
Good stuff and congratulation.
Congrats, good report! Should be some good eating! :D
Thanks to all who replied. She has been some good eating no doubt!
Not sure if it is thier "hunting" round or not. Dont think it is. They are just "high velocity" Corbons. Purple and black box.
Just got back in from a two week bear hunt in the UP. Had no computer to respond. We did get one bear in our group, unfortunately it wasnt me, BUT it was with the 10mm... I will soon post the pics and report for that as well. For now, it was about 30 feet in a tree, one shot!
Very nice report. Thanks for sharing. :)
I'm not too certain, but that seems like a lot of frag. How difficult was it to remove all of the frag?
It sounds like the 180 grain might work out better for you. Nice deer, btw.
personally i thought it was more frag than i like to see. I had never seen it like that on any game i have ever harvested. The chest cavity was full of it! looked like i had hit gold. Hence my move to handloaded 180gr XTPs. Although i will take performance like that any day, its hard to say anything could have done a better job when they drop to mother earth like she did. Drop dead is drop dead where i come from. No matter hole/bullet size/weight.
thanks all!
Dumb question here and apologize in advance if it is but the fragments may have been bone fragments as well?
Nice handgun deer congrats on your success.
New here, But wanted to say for hunting with my G20 I installed a Wolf Barrel and comp, with a Burris Fastfire II. Works great! I also use the Berrys 180gr Plated hollow points loaded with 11gr Blue dot(max load duplicate at your own risk) Have shot Lg Michigan white-tailed deer @ 60 paces with complete pass throughs.
Hello 50DEP glad to see you made it over here, the forum has been a little slow for the last few days. Congrats with that deer BTW!
Well done and thanks for the report. I hope to take a Tx whitetail with the same bullet at about 1500 fps (handload).
Sean
Quote from: MichiGun Hunter on September 19 2012 11:05:50 AM MDT
personally i thought it was more frag than i like to see. I had never seen it like that on any game i have ever harvested. The chest cavity was full of it! looked like i had hit gold. Hence my move to handloaded 180gr XTPs. Although i will take performance like that any day, its hard to say anything could have done a better job when they drop to mother earth like she did. Drop dead is drop dead where i come from. No matter hole/bullet size/weight.
thanks all!
Who is to say the fragnastiness of the 135gr isn't what partly made it so effective in this instance? What could a 180gr have done any better? It's like Michigun Hunter said; "Drop dead is drop dead where i come from. No matter hole/bullet size/weight." I don't see that that can be argued.
And why does the fragmentation of a 135 grain bullet that accomplished a spectacular kill automatically relegate going to 180 grain bullets? Do we not also have well constructed bullets in the 155-165 grain weight class? We're talking about Whitetail Deer here, not the bears of Kodiak Island.
Thanks again for sharing the spectacular results Michigun Hunter!
Who is to say the fragnastiness of the 135gr isn't what partly made it so effective in this instance? What could a 180gr have done any better? It's like Michigun Hunter said; "Drop dead is drop dead where i come from. No matter hole/bullet size/weight." I don't see that that can be argued.
Very well possible. Id say the transfer of all that energy at such a close range is what did it myself... I can tell you one thing, after seeing the aftermath, they will be my personal carry ammo of choice.
And why does the fragmentation of a 135 grain bullet that accomplished a spectacular kill automatically relegate going to 180 grain bullets? Do we not also have well constructed bullets in the 155-165 grain weight class? We're talking about Whitetail Deer here, not the bears of Kodiak Island.
I wouldn't hesitate to use them (135gr) again honestly if it was all i had. The main reason is i am looking for better penetration. Especially on a longer shot. Also they (180gr) are SUPER accurate out of my MechTech and Glock 20. Plus i just like playing and making up loads for my 10mms.
Thanks again for sharing the spectacular results Michigun Hunter!
As always, happy to report!
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Quote from: MichiGun Hunter on September 26 2012 04:29:34 AM MDTI wouldn't hesitate to use them (135gr) again honestly if it was all i had. The main reason is i am looking for better penetration. Especially on a longer shot. Also they (180gr) are SUPER accurate out of my MechTech and Glock 20. Plus i just like playing and making up loads for my 10mms.
Keep in mind - On a longer shot the 135gr Nosler bullets will fragment less and penetrate further. That is a win-win situation regardless the distance.
Redline,
Please explain this to me if you will. I am confused. Farther distance shots will result in slower velocity at the target, correct? How would it penetrate further. I can understand lesser frag because there is less velocity. Im thinking less expansion with less velocity too? Maybe thats why? Less expansion leads to deeper penetration?
I know it isnt a real world (on deer) test, but when i used milk jugs of water at 25, 50, & 100 yards, the 180's had way more penetration than the 135's at all distances. Over twice as much at 25 yards.
Ive been shooting and reloading for years, i am just really trying to understand the "ballistics" side of things. Your info is much appreciated.
Thanks
2 main reasons you will get deeper penetration within some reason of distance:
1) The bullet will retain more weight to penetrate deeper.
2) The bullet won't expand as much, leaving a smaller frontal expanded diameter, in conjunction with more weight as noted above, all adding up to deeper penetration.
At what point velocity drops enough, to wash out other factors in terms of penetration depth, I'm not sure. I do suspect the bullet would have to drop below 1100 fps for that to occur based on an educated guess.
I think Corbon uses a 135gr Sierra Bullet, which I don't have ballistics tables for. But using a 135gr Nosler bullet ballistic table, starting out at 1450 fps, you would have to be shooting out to 65 yds before the bullet dropped below 1100fps. At 100 yds it would still be doing +1000 fps. Even at 1000 fps I'm sure that bullet would get some expansion and more than likely penetrate deeper than what you saw in the realm of fragnastiness at much higher velocity.
Make sense?
Quote from: MichiGun Hunter on September 27 2012 01:34:35 PM MDT
Less expansion leads to deeper penetration?
This. With expanding bullets, velocity is inversely related to penetration, above the expansion threshold at least.
Kinetic energy is a measure of the bullet's ability to do work on the target. High velocity and rapid expansion causes more lateral energy transfer, which inhibits penetration. Basically, the expanded part of the bullet acts like a parachute. More expansion = bigger parachute. That energy has to go somewhere, so usually the initial wound cavity is bigger.
Of course, this changes if the bullet expands but then reduces in diameter again, either by shedding the expanded part, or folding back onto itself. Sort of like deploying the parachute, but then detaching it. In that case, sometimes the remaining portion of the bullet will still penetrate deeply. One reason I like Nosler Partition bullets in my hunting rifle ammo. Heavyweight cast hollowpoints can work the same way, although they're not generally available unless you cast your own.
Redline: Yes, very much so. Thank you. Considering the short distance (under 20 yards) of my shot, now you have me wondering...
Yondering: Love the parachute example. Very well put.
You bet. Now it's just a matter of seeing how far out you can hit the vital zone size of deer. I certainly wouldn't hesitate out to 75 yds on most Whitetails with the 135gr Corbon load if your shooting accuracy is on par for that vital zone size. Beyond 75 yards would probably be around the pushing it point.
I have used a cast HP design in a 45-70 loaded rather paltry the mold is the Lyman 322 grain HP. Very effective. I also have used a Nosler partition Ina 220 swift pushing the 4000 FPS mark both guns were very effective in there intended task. So the bullet driven at the intended speed and put in the right place will do its job. Hard debate venison in the freezer.