So...legendary gun maker Colt has filed for bankruptcy. They are in serious trouble, over $350 million in debt. They haven't created any new firearms in years and still push AR-15's and 1911's. They are pretty much history. I wanted to send my Delta in for repair but they said they aren't taking any repair orders right now. They focused too much on government contracts with the M4 and pretty much abandoned the civilian market. The military canceled the M4 platform and they are in sinking fast.
Current Greedy Government putting the shaft to American! Through Gun Control vis Bankruptcy of the company, financially to stockholders... ???
I just posted this on FB...
All the while American People are pussyfooting around with the BS of Political Over Correctiveness, the Islamic terrorist gain more ground and conquer more people! So keep playing around SHEEPLE! America will be consumed without a fight!
(https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/1471251_1138772266136715_2809790420394310636_n.jpg?oh=cbfe18623e0c8044512333b5bfc02070&oe=562DCEBD)
How about a new idea, design, or something, Colt?!?!
They screwed themselves. The prancing pony can only take you so far.
Quote from: Rich10 on June 26 2015 08:31:13 AM MDT
How about a new idea, design, or something, Colt?!?!
They screwed themselves. The prancing pony can only take you so far.
Agreed! Pricing your relatively mundane product above market value because you feel like you're basically doing the civilian market a favor by even offering some items for sale is a sure sign that you don't care about maintaining (or improving) your image in their eyes. You don't allow growth when you hardy entertain the civilian market. Making contract guns only gets you so far if you don't invest in R&D and focus on growing your brand instead of making your numbers. I have a hard time understanding how such a large, and old, company was so short-sighted that they allowed themselves to put almost all of their eggs in one basket and then wonder what happened when that basket was taken away... I hope whoever buys their name respects the heritage of Colt and begins producing revolutionary new firearms like they used to. Maybe the prancing pony can get a second wind and live again.
Dang I have a 9mm at Colt for a Super conversion, hope it does not get lost.
I agree that Colt brought this on themselves.
They need to fire the bean counters, hire some gun guys to run the place. I mean, you can make a mint in 1911's and AR's right now. Despite the fact that we are sick of seeing them all the time, they sell well.
But, you gotta bring real value to the market. Colt sells a Rock Island Armory quality 1911 with sub RIA features for prices between Kimber and Dan Wesson. Seriously!
Give me a Delta Elite for the 21st century with a high ridge beavertail, decent hi-visibility sights, a ramped barrel, and superior fit and finish and I would belly up to the bar.
Same goes for the LE6940. Seriously, $1300 for the base gun. I can get a similar carbine from S&W for $739 MSRP, less in the wild. That isn't a no-name. It is a S&W. The no-name carbines can be had these days for around $400 if you shop hard. Heck...I saw a DPMS Oracle the other day for $480 shipped.
Colt is going out of business cause they don't compete and are poorly managed. They mainline the two hottest gun platforms of the last 15 years. They originated those guns. If they can't make money with them, that just poor business.
Anyone seen what a PYTHON or ANACONDA fetches online these days? i bet they would have record sales for years if they brought back some of their revolver line....the demand is crazy
Quote from: Centimeter on June 26 2015 09:21:44 AM MDT
Quote from: Rich10 on June 26 2015 08:31:13 AM MDT
How about a new idea, design, or something, Colt?!?!
They screwed themselves. The prancing pony can only take you so far.
Agreed! Pricing your relatively mundane product above market value because you feel like you're basically doing the civilian market a favor by even offering some items for sale is a sure sign that you don't care about maintaining (or improving) your image in their eyes. You don't allow growth when you hardy entertain the civilian market. Making contract guns only gets you so far if you don't invest in R&D and focus on growing your brand instead of making your numbers. I have a hard time understanding how such a large, and old, company was so short-sighted that they allowed themselves to put almost all of their eggs in one basket and then wonder what happened when that basket was taken away... I hope whoever buys their name respects the heritage of Colt and begins producing revolutionary new firearms like they used to. Maybe the prancing pony can get a second wind and live again.
Sounds like almost every old American company. The big 3 automakers screwed themselves in the 1970's, but the government bailed them out. They repeated themselves 10-15 years ago, and were again bailed out.
What ever happened to Kodak?
.
Quote from: my_old_glock on June 26 2015 11:07:47 AM MDT
Quote from: Centimeter on June 26 2015 09:21:44 AM MDT
Quote from: Rich10 on June 26 2015 08:31:13 AM MDT
How about a new idea, design, or something, Colt?!?!
They screwed themselves. The prancing pony can only take you so far.
Agreed! Pricing your relatively mundane product above market value because you feel like you're basically doing the civilian market a favor by even offering some items for sale is a sure sign that you don't care about maintaining (or improving) your image in their eyes. You don't allow growth when you hardy entertain the civilian market. Making contract guns only gets you so far if you don't invest in R&D and focus on growing your brand instead of making your numbers. I have a hard time understanding how such a large, and old, company was so short-sighted that they allowed themselves to put almost all of their eggs in one basket and then wonder what happened when that basket was taken away... I hope whoever buys their name respects the heritage of Colt and begins producing revolutionary new firearms like they used to. Maybe the prancing pony can get a second wind and live again.
Sounds like almost every old American company. The big 3 automakers screwed themselves in the 1970's, but the government bailed them out. They repeated themselves 10-15 years ago, and were again bailed out.
What ever happened to Kodak?
.
Yeah it's a shame that "old" is more frequently coming to mean "inflexible" versus "strong" or "resolute" or all of the other things that a long-running, seemingly determined, well-regarded, company should be when it comes to preserving thousands of jobs, billions of potential dollars, and decades of history (legacy?).
Quote from: Centimeter on June 26 2015 11:16:19 AM MDT
Yeah it's a shame that "old" is more frequently coming to mean "inflexible" versus "strong" or "resolute" or all of the other things that a long-running, seemingly determined, well-regarded, company should be when it comes to preserving thousands of jobs, billions of potential dollars, and decades of history (legacy?).
Here is why the old companies continue to fail. Back in the olden days, 1960's and earlier, a CEO usually worked on the manufacturing floor of company before moving up the ladder. The CEO learned about the company from the bottom up, and how things are really done. Now days CEOs come direct from large Universities where they were taught how to run a business by professors who never worked in or ran a company. It is kinda like the Pentagon being run by people who have never been in combat. It is a recipe for disaster.
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I called colt about a bad chamber in an ar barrel, customer service bitch hung up on me.
Good riddance ...
Here's the thing. Colt has partially priced themselves out of the market. A basic 1911 is uberexpensive compare to something like a Taurus PT1911 that has all the bells and whistles and really only needs some decent magazines (I bought one and the damn thing was a tack driver). You have the Colt SAA which while cool is substandard when you compare it to the Ruger Blackhawk. Everyone makes an AR-15 and most are as good if not better than Colt and are cheaper. Then they refuse to produce the Anaconda, Python, or Detective snubbie which would all sell like hotcakes. No surprise on the announcement.
Well hopefully they get bought by a gun lover, or at least someone with a brain. If they get bought by Vltor or one of these other manufacturing companies they'll be made overseas and just be garbage.
Quote from: sqlbullet on June 26 2015 09:48:25 AM MDT
I agree that Colt brought this on themselves.
They need to fire the bean counters, hire some gun guys to run the place. I mean, you can make a mint in 1911's and AR's right now. Despite the fact that we are sick of seeing them all the time, they sell well.
But, you gotta bring real value to the market. Colt sells a Rock Island Armory quality 1911 with sub RIA features for prices between Kimber and Dan Wesson. Seriously!
Give me a Delta Elite for the 21st century with a high ridge beavertail, decent hi-visibility sights, a ramped barrel, and superior fit and finish and I would belly up to the bar.
Same goes for the LE6940. Seriously, $1300 for the base gun. I can get a similar carbine from S&W for $739 MSRP, less in the wild. That isn't a no-name. It is a S&W. The no-name carbines can be had these days for around $400 if you shop hard. Heck...I saw a DPMS Oracle the other day for $480 shipped.
Colt is going out of business cause they don't compete and are poorly managed. They mainline the two hottest gun platforms of the last 15 years. They originated those guns. If they can't make money with them, that just poor business.
This is what I have been thinking. Upgrade the Delta Elite.
Guys;
I haven't been in their boardrooms but have plenty of others. I STRONGLY SUSPECT that where Colt is today (unfortunately) is solely of their own doing. You have no idea how many big decisions at the senior management level are based upon bias and ego rather than current and future market conditions and reality.
I can easily see some of them stubbornly saying the 1911 is "America's Gun" and will be around and purchased by gun owners forever. The correct answer was and is, "Yes, they will be PART of the market but how much of the market?" I bet anything they convinced themselves it would remain mainstream and told each other what each other wanted to hear rather than reality.
This kind of mis-management regarding market trends that lead to trouble and bankruptcy often are years or decades in the making - this also manifests itself in little reinvested in R&D. Unfortunately, I believe they (Colt) are so far behind that catching up is impractical. Same exact thing goes/went for Blackberry phones. At one time, THE market product leader. They went silent in R&D for some reason and when they tried to kick start things they were GENERATIONS behind, not just a few years.
The fat lady is on stage clearing her throat.
Pat
But blackberry still has one thing going for them, security.
Oh well, I guess my gold cup delta elite's brothers might finally crack $3k on gun broker. :P
I hate to see any American Company go under . Colt is like other companies that have gone down the tube , they didn't keep up with the times . Most guns the size of a 1911 have a double stack mag ., for one thing , and they are priced better as well . I always did think Colt Products were over priced . The only 1911 I have now is a Para Black Ops 14-45 . I did have a Colt 1911 , I bought back in 1968 , but there are a lot better options out there now a days . Kimber is another one I think is way over priced , for what you get . If you are over priced , and you don't keep up with the times you will go under .
They made it because they contracted with Uncle Sam. That is not a regular marketplace and they are following so many similar companies down the drain. They simply don't need to be competitive as long as the contracts keep coming in. When Sugar Daddy goes away, reality is harsh.
Of course, Uncle Sam might ultimately bail them out so the execs can kick back a bunch of bucks to the politicians. After all its only money and is just a drop in the bucket, as the story goes.
Greg
I kinda agree Geeman.
Here is where I have a hard time with that with Colt's situation.
They aren't making some obscure product on contract that only has a single consumer. Colt was making the most popular rifle in America right now. Lost the contract, big deal. Use all the money they banked from the years on the lucrative contract, and revitalize their consumer marketing channels.
Remington geared up in huge way for a piece of the m-4 contract, and then didn't get it. They did a quick turn and bingo, R-15's for the masses.
As we all were complaining the other day about a Rifleman article on 10mm. They reviewed 4 1911's in 10mm. Why? Because 1911's are HUGELY popular right now.
While I agree that large contracts can result in suppliers that are victims due to the contract precluding diversification, Colt did not have that problem. Their business is just plain atrociously managed for many years. It is too late for them now, but 5 years ago better management could have saved them.
Quote from: sqlbullet on June 30 2015 08:35:33 AM MDT
While I agree that large contracts can result in suppliers that are victims due to the contract precluding diversification, Colt did not have that problem. Their business is just plain atrociously managed for many years. It is too late for them now, but 5 years ago better management could have saved them.
Atrociously managed is an understatement. What ownership did was rape every bit of equity from this company. They used and abused the cash flow of Colt and sucked it dry.
Now there is a fight between current vultures . . . ownership and all the bondholders, which is another group of financial vultures. It should be interesting how this all plays out.
Quote from: PalmBeach on June 30 2015 03:52:44 PM MDT
Quote from: sqlbullet on June 30 2015 08:35:33 AM MDT
While I agree that large contracts can result in suppliers that are victims due to the contract precluding diversification, Colt did not have that problem. Their business is just plain atrociously managed for many years. It is too late for them now, but 5 years ago better management could have saved them.
Atrociously managed is an understatement. What ownership did was rape every bit of equity from this company. They used and abused the cash flow of Colt and sucked it dry.
It is called Narcissism. It has become the American way. They believe they are perfect, can never make a mistake, and are worthy of all the money in the world.
Quote from: PalmBeach on June 30 2015 03:52:44 PM MDT
Now there is a fight between current vultures . . . ownership and all the bondholders, which is another group of financial vultures. It should be interesting how this all plays out.
The lawyers will win.
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