Have been working on a woods load for the G29SF using the KKM 4.6" and LWD 6" barrel. While I am getting acceptable velocity, it does not seem to get all the way there compared to some of the posts and data I have read. I acquired some once fired Winchester brass from a non-Glock pistol that did not need to be run through the pass through Lee die. The X-Treme 220gr bullet has very good accuracy in most all of my test loads going under 2" at 25 yards. Using the Wolf 23# dual uncaptured RSA. Chrony at 13-15' as I think muzzle blast was interfering at 10'. Temp. 55-60 deg. Case head expansion is a max .430.
Longshot, CCI 300 primer, 1.253 OAL, 6" LWD barrel
7.8gr 1140 fps avg.
8.0gr 1151 fps avg.
8.2gr 1162 fps avg. one slight smile in 5 rounds that grouped into 2"
Longshot, CCI 300 primer, 1.260 OAL, 4.6" KKM barrel
8.2gr 1137 fps. one shot
8.3gr 1130, 1108 fps.
8.4gr 1113, 1132, 1126, 1124 fps.
800X, Win. Gold primer, 1.254 OAL, 6" LWD barrel
8.2gr 1143 fps. avg. 4 shots into 1 5/8" 5th went 1 15/16"
8.4gr 1166 fps. avg. several light smiles switched to KKM barrel
800X, Win. Gold primer, 1.254 OAL, 4.6" KKM barrel
8.4gr 1135 fps. avg. also a couple of light smiles
Now the questions. I noticed the Underwood Rim Rock 220 gr loads with 8.4gr Longshot doing 1239 fps in a 4 ¾" barrel and 1287 in a 6" barrel. This is way faster than my X-Treme loads. Should I try the Rim Rock cast bullets or is there a coated bullet or others in this weight that might work better? I have also tried some X-Treme 200gr bullets that also did a light smile before reaching the reported velocity of the 200gr XTP's I read about. I will eventually switch to the CCI 350 primer after working up a safe load with the 300 and some Winchester primers I have a large stock of. I assumed the once fired Win brass would be O.K. to use to work up a max load using it twice maybe before downloading to milder target loads but I might need some new Starline for this project?
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/Jazzsax8/Glock/020.jpg)
Thanks for the range report and data, Those bullets are heavy and it takes a lot to get them going... 8)
You are getting in the mid 11s with a 220. That is pretty good, especially considering that a 200 @ 1200 is the standard for full-house 10mm. I would not worry about squeezing the last few fps to keep up with what others are getting. If you are getting smiles, you've gone a tad beyond. Me? I'd reduce a tenth or two to where smiles are pretty much eliminated.
I take the long view. I would want to shoot a load that I'd feel comfortable shooting 20,000 of. If there is any anxiety of going "a hair more", I put it in the context of 20k rounds. If there is hesitation, there's no hesitation. Your groups are good. Another few fps will make no real difference in terminal effect.
Your plan for relegating the twice fired hot-load brass to modest loads is sound.
EDIT: There is absolutely nothing to gain from going to a mag primer except extra pressure. None of the powders that you're using need the extra ignition. 800-X did not respond well with CCI 350s in my testing.
Taterhead offers some excellent advice here.
Lets say you are running right at the razors edge to get to the UW speeds. And lets say your standard deviation in weighing your loads is just .05 grains, which would be outstanding.
That means in 20,000 round you will have 16,000 rounds that fall within ±.1 grains of your target load. Pretty good.
But that also means 4,000 that fall over a tenth of a grain. In fact, you are statistically guaranteed at least one load that is .2 grains over. If you standard load is putting a healthy smile on the brass, then your load that is .2 grains over is likely gonna fail the head.
And that assumes you can achieve .05 grains of standard deviation. I find a tenth of a grain to be pretty good consistencty, and at that more common precision that one load in 20,000 will be almost a half grain to much powder.
The excellent point Taterhead makes, and that we all too often loose sight of, is in the world of very big numbers it isn't if you have a 4 standard deviation event, it is when. And by definition the when is every 15,787 shots. As much as some guys on here appear to shoot, that will be once a year!
And, all this assumes you have the same range conditions and perfectly normal brass, bullet, primer, etc. Add in all those variables over time, and loading consistently on the ragged edges is just not a good idea.
Like Taterhead and Sqlbullet, I tend to work back to the point where the loads function in the Glock Factory barrels without any smiles for a given load...Finding that balance has also shown great performance in all of the other makes of pistols and barrels to include S&W, Storm Lake and LWD.
Another thing I have noticed is not all 10mm brass is the same. While some barrels offer better support, the alloy, and malleability can be very different and vary with stampings, annealing processes and quality control.
Star Line is very soft and malleable and rightly so being a handloaders brass for multi uses before work hardening or splitting. Star Line does make brass for many others with their own headstamps, if they contract with them.
Those that possibly use Star Line: Underwood, Double Tap, Nugent, Cor-Bon, Buffalo Bore (I wish I had a definitive list of those who contract with Star Line)
Federal was stiff and many cracked on the initial firings as evident of range pickups in the years past.
CCI/Speer were good but they haven't made any 10mm brass in quite some time other than aluminum disposable N/R.
Norma was a very strong brass as developed for the 10mm back in the day, good alloy properties.
Hornady also was a stiffer brass in the 10mm chamberings and it split on initial firings or reuse.
Winchester (back in the day) was stronger having a good balance of stiffness, for heavy loads. It has been outstanding for my 9x25Dillon project. It tarnishes faster than other makes.
Remington has been another quality brass, in the nickel finish, but newer runs of nickel plated stuff not so much.
Jagemann is newer on the market and their brass has shown good reloading quality.
That being said PPU, A-USA and a few other makes have shown poor quality or lesser qualities for the handloading use.
Several of the heavy 10mm loaders have commented that Starline is probably the best for heavy loads not new, but on the second or third load. Since brass work hardens, the head gets harder each time it is fired.
It would be interesting to run a "smiler" load through new Starline, once fired with warm loads and twice fired with warm loads and see if there is a measurable difference.
Thanks for all the great comments that I agree with completely. Just to clarify since I have the 4.6 & 6" aftermarket barrels I plan to use the stock 29 barrel to work up a 155gr XTP load (yet to acquire the bullets) for CCW and no other purpose. I definitely will back down from any smiling for my max load in the heavier woods carry loads and will beam scale ALL of them to prevent overcharge as I will not be shooting a steady diet of them. I was only going to try the mag primer in the Longshot loads as there seems to be a benefit using that powder. I would only use the Longshot through my progressive to mass load the 220's with about 7.6/7.8grs. I think part of my problem is using the X-Treme bullet that there is not a lot of internet experience with max loads. Lots of info using Rimrock or the 200gr WFNGC lead that seem to produce the faster velocity in a safe manner.
So my question is, has anyone used any other 220gr bullets yet and found a favorite? The 200gr Beartooth would probably work great but at over .30 each are too pricey to shoot for me. Is there a good coated no lube groove style that I would prefer over the lubed cast lead if they are working the best?
Just found some Rim Rock 220's and 155XTP's at Selway heading this way soon!
I cast my own. I have a mountain mold that is nominal 205 grain, actual 210 grain. I also have a NOE mold that is a 200 flat, 180 HP design. I have never run it with the flat pins, but the 180's drop about 182 from my alloy, so I expect the 200 will drop about 203.
Since I cast, if I were going to go heavy, I would work on the mountain mold designer to come up with my existing 210 grain, but a bit longer.
Like this one:
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?products_id=1337&osCsid=70ht6qbfas1o6tveqm71c33oa7
Good price too!