I felt the Gen 4 29 was getting lonely so I bought a 20 today. I really like the Gen 4 grip. I'd post a pic but really figure everyone here has seen a bone stock G20.
Sean
Congratulations, I have a Gen 4 G20 and absolutely love it. I installed Dawson Precision fiber optic sights with the rear being adjustable for the wide variety of bullet weight. Can't wait to hear how it shoots for you.
Pics are always welcome.
Congrats on the new Gen 4 G20!
Range report when you can..
WoooHoooo!!
Congrats!
I'd like to see those sights. :)
My 29 has TFOs. I think the 20 will get the same...
Wohoo that's awesome Iam kinda wishing I now bought the Gen 4 and believe it or not I could ha e bought it 200.00$ less than my Gen3 sf but not knowing just about every drop in up grade save the re oil springs can fir both gen 4 and gen 3 I like the idea of the 3 15 round mags ambidextrous ,larger mag release and grippier texture and adjustable back strap what's not to love?please post pictures as you can!
Quote from: Sean from Vt on March 16 2015 08:20:05 PM MDT
My 29 has TFOs. I think the 20 will get the same...
As of right now, mine has the stock sights....however, I keep waffling on the TFO or a Burris reddot sight. My leaning is, for the time being, to go with the TFOs.
I guess it depends on the use. Mine is a nightstand-woods walking gun. I know I'm at least going for fiber optic and if I'm going that far might as well have tritium too
I bought a gen 4 20 a few weeks ago. I like it so far. I wish it had the trigger my 19 does.
Congrats on the new purchase! I really like tfos. Will be a great addition to a great gun.
I picked up a gen 3 G20 today. Came with 3 mags, and a soft sided case(?) in addition to the standard plastic one. $579+tax. Now for the snow to melt.....
Soft sided case? Not from Glock?
Y00PER, congrats on your G-20, hope it brings you all the best the 10mm has to offer! ;D
Quote from: 4949shooter on March 21 2015 09:36:59 AM MDT
Soft sided case? Not from Glock?
Found it on Glock's website, it's a 1 gun range bag.
Quote from: Y00PER on March 21 2015 11:49:20 PM MDT
Quote from: 4949shooter on March 21 2015 09:36:59 AM MDT
Soft sided case? Not from Glock?
Found it on Glock's website, it's a 1 gun range bag.
Oh okay thanks. I thought maybe Glock started providing soft cases with their guns.
Congrats!
Mine is a early Gen1 and its a sweetheart. I have looked, but this one is what I like. :)
Maybe now that I have the mech tec I'll look fr another frame so I can have it and the G20 at the same time...
CW
Quote from: The_Shadow on March 21 2015 05:22:40 PM MDT
Y00PER, congrats on your G-20, hope it brings you all the best the 10mm has to offer! ;D
Thanks! I've wanted one for a loooooong time (15+ yrs), but kept blowing my money on other guns that were too good (price wise) to pass up.
Congrats to Sean from Vt and the other new G20 owners.
New member here, also a new owner of a Gen 4 G20. I appreciate 4949shooter's advice on getting the Glockmeister 24 lb RSA. Ordered one same day that I ordered some Underwood ammo. So far I've only shot mild factory loads (HPR 180gr FMJ), all good with the gun so far.
Enjoy your Gen 4 Gunbug! 8)
Let us know how it handles the Underwood..
Thanks 49, sure thing. I'll report in a week or so.
The Underwood ammo didn't arrive yet, but the 24-lb recoil spring assembly did. I'm glad to report that the HPR 180gr FMJ (pretty mild, around 1100 fps I think) cycles 100% with the heavier recoil spring. Now to see how it works with the full-power Underwood.
Can't wait to get my hands on a new Glock 40. Also considering a a G20 gen 4.
Also recently picked up a Gen 4 G20. It is all stock. I ran 200 Underwood 180 gr XTPs through it just fine. The trigger may be a bit stiffer than my 26 and 19, unless I was imagining that. Since it functioned well, I may stick with the stock spring. It was throwing brass a bit far. I really need to reload for mid-level loads and keep the Underwood for protection in the woods. Fun gun and pretty accurate.
Quote from: Flyer on April 08 2015 08:52:03 AM MDT
Also recently picked up a Gen 4 G20. It is all stock. I ran 200 Underwood 180 gr XTPs through it just fine. The trigger may be a bit stiffer than my 26 and 19, unless I was imagining that. Since it functioned well, I may stick with the stock spring. It was throwing brass a bit far. I really need to reload for mid-level loads and keep the Underwood for protection in the woods. Fun gun and pretty accurate.
The trigger on my Gen 4 was stiff also in the beginning. It should work itself out after 500 rounds or so.
Quote from: 4949shooter on April 08 2015 05:02:25 PM MDT
Quote from: Flyer on April 08 2015 08:52:03 AM MDT
Also recently picked up a Gen 4 G20. It is all stock. I ran 200 Underwood 180 gr XTPs through it just fine. The trigger may be a bit stiffer than my 26 and 19, unless I was imagining that. Since it functioned well, I may stick with the stock spring. It was throwing brass a bit far. I really need to reload for mid-level loads and keep the Underwood for protection in the woods. Fun gun and pretty accurate.
The trigger on my Gen 4 was stiff also in the beginning. It should work itself out after 500 rounds or so.
I agree. It smoothed out noticeably after the first several hundred rounds. A 25-cent trigger job is also very useful if you want to knock off the bigger stuff early on. It makes a world of difference right away.
Finally got the chance to shoot the G20 with full power Underwood loads. Mostly good with the stock recoil spring and also with an aftermarket Glockmeister 24 lb spring, which was suggested to me in case the stock spring hiccupped on the strong non-JHP loads (which it doesn't). LOVE the gun. With night sights on it now I feel like it can be a trusty companion for all outdoor excursions.
One less than joyous thing to report -- Underwood 180gr Gold Dot JHPs don't feed consistently. It appears the hollow point cavity is so large as to cause feeding problems. I think other JHP bullet designs with smaller cavities in the bullet nose would not cause this problem.
Quote from: GunBugBit on April 13 2015 10:56:41 AM MDT
Finally got the chance to shoot the G20 with full power Underwood loads. All good with the stock recoil spring and also with an aftermarket Glockmeister 24 lb spring, which was suggested to me in case the stock spring hiccupped on the strong loads (which it doesn't). LOVE the gun. With night sights on it now I feel like it can be a trusty companion for all outdoor excursions.
One less than joyous thing to report -- Underwood 180gr Gold Dot JHPs don't feed consistently. It appears the hollow point cavity is so large as to cause feeding problems. I think other JHP bullet designs with smaller cavities in the bullet nose would not cause this problem.
How can the bolded be true at the same time? If it doesn't feed the Underwood consistently, why would you consider that "all good"? Does your feeding problem look like my OP in this thread? http://10mm-firearms.com/10mm-semi-auto-handguns/g20-gen4-ftf-issues/ (http://10mm-firearms.com/10mm-semi-auto-handguns/g20-gen4-ftf-issues/)
Chuck
Yes, I was inconsistent, obviously. All good EXCEPT for the wide-mouth (180gr Gold Dot) JHPs.
The 24-lb recoil spring didn't help with those JHPs.
Full-power FMJs fed 100%.
Quote from: GunBugBit on April 13 2015 01:08:02 PM MDT
Yes, I was inconsistent, obviously. All good EXCEPT for the wide-mouth (180gr Gold Dot) JHPs.
The 24-lb recoil spring didn't help with those JHPs.
Full-power FMJs fed 100%.
The increased weight RSA won't necessarily help feeding issues, if it is a feed ramp / HP issue.
Quote from: 4949shooter on April 13 2015 01:39:20 PM MDT
Quote from: GunBugBit on April 13 2015 01:08:02 PM MDT
Yes, I was inconsistent, obviously. All good EXCEPT for the wide-mouth (180gr Gold Dot) JHPs.
The 24-lb recoil spring didn't help with those JHPs.
Full-power FMJs fed 100%.
The increased weight RSA won't necessarily help feeding issues, if it is a feed ramp / HP issue.
Yes, this is what I was thinking. I'm familiar with JHP feeding issues from other semi-auto handguns. The wide-mouth JHPs like some of the Gold Dots are particularly susceptible to causing feeding issues.
And don't worry that I'm thinking your recommendation on the 24-lb spring was bad in any way.
I am slow to jump to conclusions or freak out when I have a bit of trouble with a new gun. Everything has a logical explanation. Eventually I, or Glock, or someone else will figure out how to get these Gen 4's (actually I'm only concerned about
my Gen 4 but I'll share all I learn with other owners) to function with a wider range of power and bullet types. Not worried about it, just sharing and gathering data.
Cool was just wondering what you were saying, makes sense now. The strong non-HP rounds, which ones were they? PBR? Underwood?
They were Underwood, this product:
http://www.underwoodammo.com/10mm-auto-180-grain-full-metal-jacket-box-of-50/
I have tried a small amount of Gold dots in my two G20's....Nugent and some HSM. I haven't had a problem, but every gun is different.
If you want some more of my unsolicited 2 cents, the Hornady XTP's have been feeding excellent in both my Glocks. I have fired 155 grain and 180 grain both from Hornady original ammo, and 155 grain and 200 grain XTP from Underwood.
Your Gen 4 should feed Gold dots though. I wonder if it is maybe a mag issue, where the follower isn't putting the bullet at the right angle to feed the Gold dot?
4949, I know that the XTP bullets are shaped differently from the Gold Dot bullets. The XTPs are shaped more like the FMJ bullets in the HPR ammo -- more conical -- and the HPR FMJs feed 100% in the Gen 4 I have.
Based on my experience with 1911s, Gold Dots not feeding is no big surprise; for example, 200gr .45 ACP Gold Dots would hang up in my Springfield Mil Spec 1911 when all other hollow points and FMJs fed perfectly. Also, there could be an overall length (OAL) issue with the Underwood 180gr 10mm Gold Dot rounds.
Naturally I'd love it if this Gen 4 G20 fed everything I have fed it, but I live in the real world and know that I might not find a remedy any time soon. Until I do, I'll test more ammo and stick with the rounds that do feed 100%.
For sure I'll be trying the Underwood XTP rounds. And I wouldn't be surprised if the Nosler JHPs feed very reliably.
Just ordered some Underwood 150gr Nosler JHP and 180gr XTP JHP. I'll report back on how these feed, using both the stock RSA and the Glockmeister 24-lb steel RSA.
Noticed the chrono/energy data on that 150gr Nosler load -- WOW.
Looking forward to a report, Gunbug!
I still don't have my latest order of Underwood ammo but I went ahead and shot the following, last range session:
- 20 Hornady 180gr XTPs - No failures
- 50 HPR 180gr TMJ - No failures (also zero failures with prior boxes of this stuff)
- 50 Underwood 180gr Gold Dots - loaded only 10 rounds per mag but still had a couple of FTFs
- 50 HSM 200gr FMJs - was surprised to have one FTF
- 50 HPR 200gr XTPs - 3 FTFs
- 50 HPR 180gr XTPs - one occurrence of last round not feeding
My issues are similar to those I read from many other Gen 4 G20 owners.
I suspect there is a certain energy level, based on powder load and bullet weight, past which the springs don't ideally sing together. With the stronger loads, the slide might be returning too fast, before the rounds have a chance to rise to the proper level in the magazines, or maybe there is some frame flex, and/or maybe I'm holding the gun too tight (I guarantee I don't limp-wrist); this might not be made any better with an extra-power RSA because while the slide's rearward motion would be slower than with the stock RSA, the return motion would be faster.
I expect I'll have similar issues with the strongly loaded Underwood 150gr Nosler JHP and 180gr XTP JHP.
I would not be surprised if Underwood's milder Delta Elite 180gr JHP rounds work fine in this gun.
I'm prepared to explore more expensive/exotic RSA alternatives, and/or try stiffer magazine springs.
If no success after exploring alternatives, I'll return to all-factory components and stick with the medium-to-full-
not-nuclear-power 10mm loads, such as the Hornady 180gr XTP.
I really like the gun and am happy about my improving accuracy with it.
That is a bummer man, I was hoping you'd be in the 4949shooter camp at the worst, where the stock Gen4 G20 has FTF issues but is correctable with a non-stock RSA. :(
Chalk another Gen4 G20 up with FTF issues with stronger within SAAMI spec ammo, when will Glock do something about it...? :(
Quote from: GunBugBit on April 20 2015 03:38:32 PM MDT
I still don't have my latest order of Underwood ammo but I went ahead and shot the following, last range session:
- 20 Hornady 180gr XTPs - No failures
- 50 HPR 180gr TMJ - No failures (also zero failures with prior boxes of this stuff)
- 50 Underwood 180gr Gold Dots - loaded only 10 rounds per mag but still had a couple of FTFs
- 50 HSM 200gr FMJs - was surprised to have one FTF
- 50 HPR 200gr XTPs - 3 FTFs
- 50 HPR 180gr XTPs - one occurrence of last round not feeding
My issues are similar to those I read from many other Gen 4 G20 owners.
I suspect there is a certain energy level, based on powder load and bullet weight, past which the springs don't ideally sing together. With the stronger loads, the slide might be returning too fast, before the rounds have a chance to rise to the proper level in the magazines, or maybe there is some frame flex, and/or maybe I'm holding the gun too tight (I guarantee I don't limp-wrist); this might not be made any better with an extra-power RSA because while the slide's rearward motion would be slower than with the stock RSA, the return motion would be faster.
I expect I'll have similar issues with the strongly loaded Underwood 150gr Nosler JHP and 180gr XTP JHP.
I would not be surprised if Underwood's milder Delta Elite 180gr JHP rounds work fine in this gun.
I'm prepared to explore more expensive/exotic RSA alternatives, and/or try stiffer magazine springs.
If no success after exploring alternatives, I'll return to all-factory components and stick with the medium-to-full-not-nuclear-power 10mm loads, such as the Hornady 180gr XTP.
I really like the gun and am happy about my improving accuracy with it.
You didn't say, but how many different mags were used? Consistency usually provides the direction with these issues. Since it appears to not have a consistent theme, to rule out the mags/followers, when your UA comes in, maybe just use one mag and document. At least you can rule out or confirm.
My 357sig (G32) had one mag that always gave me fits...but until I started tracking it, I had to rule out the others. I switched out the mag spring and follower, then had no issues. I bought a .40 mag because I couldn't find any 357 mags....now I have a problem with it feeding too. That is not always the case for the .40 mags substituted for 357sigs....majority of the time they work seamlessly.
Not saying that is your problem, but that is where I would start.
Quote from: GunBugBit on April 20 2015 03:38:32 PM MDT
I still don't have my latest order of Underwood ammo but I went ahead and shot the following, last range session:
- 20 Hornady 180gr XTPs - No failures
- 50 HPR 180gr TMJ - No failures (also zero failures with prior boxes of this stuff)
- 50 Underwood 180gr Gold Dots - loaded only 10 rounds per mag but still had a couple of FTFs
- 50 HSM 200gr FMJs - was surprised to have one FTF
- 50 HPR 200gr XTPs - 3 FTFs
- 50 HPR 180gr XTPs - one occurrence of last round not feeding
My issues are similar to those I read from many other Gen 4 G20 owners.
I suspect there is a certain energy level, based on powder load and bullet weight, past which the springs don't ideally sing together. With the stronger loads, the slide might be returning too fast, before the rounds have a chance to rise to the proper level in the magazines, or maybe there is some frame flex, and/or maybe I'm holding the gun too tight (I guarantee I don't limp-wrist); this might not be made any better with an extra-power RSA because while the slide's rearward motion would be slower than with the stock RSA, the return motion would be faster.
I expect I'll have similar issues with the strongly loaded Underwood 150gr Nosler JHP and 180gr XTP JHP.
I would not be surprised if Underwood's milder Delta Elite 180gr JHP rounds work fine in this gun.
I'm prepared to explore more expensive/exotic RSA alternatives, and/or try stiffer magazine springs.
If no success after exploring alternatives, I'll return to all-factory components and stick with the medium-to-full-not-nuclear-power 10mm loads, such as the Hornady 180gr XTP.
I really like the gun and am happy about my improving accuracy with it.
Sorry you are still having issues with the gun. Was any of this ammo shot with the 24 pound RSA?
Just for experimental purposes, I would try the Underwood with the 24 pound spring and see what you get.
Other than that, maybe Redbaron is on to something with the mags.
I know you said you don't limpwrist (and I am sure you don't), but heavy 10mm ammo in a Glock sometimes needs a heavy wrist lock, and I mean heavier than what you would normally have your wrist at.
I would see how it works with the Underwood, 24 pound RSA, and an extra-tight wrist lock. I wish I could help you more. If you were in NJ I would suggest meeting up and allowing me and my shooting partner to shoot your gun as well.
Quote from: redbaron007 on April 20 2015 04:10:40 PM MDT
You didn't say, but how many different mags were used? Consistency usually provides the direction with these issues. Since it appears to not have a consistent theme, to rule out the mags/followers, when your UA comes in, maybe just use one mag and document. At least you can rule out or confirm.
The 3 factory mags.
I verified that the issues occur independent of the magazines; in other words, by process of elimination/isolation, I confirmed that no single magazine provided immunity from failures.
The 3 mags all function 100% with medium loads.
Quote from: 4949shooter on April 20 2015 06:07:55 PM MDT
Sorry you are still having issues with the gun. Was any of this ammo shot with the 24 pound RSA?
Just for experimental purposes, I would try the Underwood with the 24 pound spring and see what you get.
Other than that, maybe Redbaron is on to something with the mags.
I know you said you don't limpwrist (and I am sure you don't), but heavy 10mm ammo in a Glock sometimes needs a heavy wrist lock, and I mean heavier than what you would normally have your wrist at.
I would see how it works with the Underwood, 24 pound RSA, and an extra-tight wrist lock. I wish I could help you more. If you were in NJ I would suggest meeting up and allowing me and my shooting partner to shoot your gun as well.
The issues were seen with both the factory RSA and the 24-lb RSA.
I'm posting here to report on what's happening for the benefit of other G20 owners who feel all alone with their issues with nuclear 10mm loads.
I appreciate your efforts to diagnose what's happening and I'm sure I would enjoy shooting with you and your shooting buddy and observing/discussing what is happening. The truth of the matter appears to be that the G20s, and this is even according to Glock, aren't set up to handle the stronger 10mm loads. Some have perfect luck with all loads, but many do not.
Consider the report of one G20 shooter whose malfunctions with nuclear 10mm loads disappeared when he switched to one-handed shooting. That's interesting and might suggest that holding the gun very firmly is contributing to the issues. I'm only willing to relax my hands so much but maybe I'll try dialing down my grip with some of the next batch of hot Underwood I received last night.
Look at what we're asking the G20 to do -- it's something we don't ask of any other semi-auto pistol that I know of. We are asking for perfect function across a very wide power range of loads, much more than we see with .45 ACP, 9mm, .40 S&W, etc.
I'll bet that if I shot my 1911s with loads that sizzle 200-300 fps faster than most .45 ACP, I might see similar issues.
Anyway, I don't think we should rush to judgment against Glock. My pistol will probably function perfectly with a wide variety of quality ammo, just not the really hot stuff. I'm not surprised because I read and heard about it before I bought the gun. I'll take my time exploring the available options for handling the nuke stuff and of course will report on any "magic formula" I might come upon (DPM or Sprinco RSA, stronger mag springs, etc.).
Earlier in this thread, you indicate the full power FMJs loads, i.e. Underwood, were 100% reliable; however, something has changed if you are now having feeding/ejection issues. Underwood is pretty close, if not right there, to being nuclear since they teeter-totter right there at there max SAAMI specs.
QuoteYes, I was inconsistent, obviously. All good EXCEPT for the wide-mouth (180gr Gold Dot) JHPs.
The 24-lb recoil spring didn't help with those JHPs.
Full-power FMJs fed 100%.
What has changed?
Quote from: redbaron007 on April 21 2015 10:39:13 AM MDT
Earlier in this thread, you indicate the full power FMJs loads, i.e. Underwood, were 100% reliable; however, something has changed if you are now having feeding/ejection issues. Underwood is pretty close, if not right there, to being nuclear since they teeter-totter right there at there max SAAMI specs.
QuoteYes, I was inconsistent, obviously. All good EXCEPT for the wide-mouth (180gr Gold Dot) JHPs.
The 24-lb recoil spring didn't help with those JHPs.
Full-power FMJs fed 100%.
What has changed?
Some of the ammo that worked 100% in one shooting session was involved in failures in later shooting sessions, with the same RSA and all else being the same.
I had better luck with Underwood 180gr FMJ than with the Gold Dots. The FMJs were all good first time out; had some left over for subsequent shooting sessions and observed two failures if I recall correctly (can't find notes on this ammo type on my iPhone, usually keep good records of this stuff but I've been shooting a lot of different times of ammo lately, not just 10mm).
I clearly remember trying both the factory RSA and the Glockmeister 24-lb RSA with the Underwood Gold Dots, not for just one session but for another. The malfunctions occurred with both RSAs.
I see from the 10mm table that the Underwood loads are at the high end of full power, teeter-tottering at the low end of nuclear. I would like to be able to depend on these loads as they seem of very good quality. The gun does feed them about 90% of the time so maybe just the occasional high-end variance in energy "beats the springs".
Gunbug, I'm fairly certain that guy who fixed his G20 issue shooting one handed I believe had failure to extract problems, not fail to feed. I had the same problem with my Gen 3 prior to switching to the 22 pound RSA. Shooting one handed was not a problem with the stock spring. I do believe the frame on my Gen 3 SF model was flexing under the high impulse ammo. The 22 pound RSA solved the problem and it now shoots Underwood 165 grain tmj without a hiccup. As you know I have the 24 pound RSA for my Gen 4.
I might suggest trying some of the same ammo in your Gen 4 with the 24 pound RSA. I know this "testing" is costing you money (as it did me) but I would like to get your gun functioning at least with one full power load. The 165 grain is the best of the best, IMHO.
Quote from: GunBugBit on April 21 2015 10:26:59 AM MDT
The issues were seen with both the factory RSA and the 24-lb RSA.
I'm posting here to report on what's happening for the benefit of other G20 owners who feel all alone with their issues with nuclear 10mm loads.
I appreciate your efforts to diagnose what's happening and I'm sure I would enjoy shooting with you and your shooting buddy and observing/discussing what is happening. The truth of the matter appears to be that the G20s, and this is even according to Glock, aren't set up to handle the stronger 10mm loads. Some have perfect luck with all loads, but many do not.
Consider the report of one G20 shooter whose malfunctions with nuclear 10mm loads disappeared when he switched to one-handed shooting. That's interesting and might suggest that holding the gun very firmly is contributing to the issues. I'm only willing to relax my hands so much but maybe I'll try dialing down my grip with some of the next batch of hot Underwood I received last night.
Look at what we're asking the G20 to do -- it's something we don't ask of any other semi-auto pistol that I know of. We are asking for perfect function across a very wide power range of loads, much more than we see with .45 ACP, 9mm, .40 S&W, etc.
I'll bet that if I shot my 1911s with loads that sizzle 200-300 fps faster than most .45 ACP, I might see similar issues.
Anyway, I don't think we should rush to judgment against Glock. My pistol will probably function perfectly with a wide variety of quality ammo, just not the really hot stuff. I'm not surprised because I read and heard about it before I bought the gun. I'll take my time exploring the available options for handling the nuke stuff and of course will report on any "magic formula" I might come upon (DPM or Sprinco RSA, stronger mag springs, etc.).
When did Glock admit to this?As 4949shooter stated, try to find at least one full power load....I like the UA 155xtp or 165bjhp.
Good luck at figuring out the concerns.
When did Glock admit to this?
In threads from other forums, such as GlockTalk, Gen 4 G20 owners report trying to get to the bottom of why their guns aren't reliable the hotter 10mm loads, and Glock says they do not test their guns with hotter loads and do not recommend shooting hotter loads.
If they have had a change in their position on this, I am not yet aware of it.