A friend put this up today
(https://scontent-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10395812_795461803854499_4861473975093537359_n.jpg?oh=b3d6afac935b26ff4e4902a01b036ed7&oe=5591CAB6)
Anymore questions why you need a BIGGER one and maybe the 10mm as a back-up? :o
Yeah, backup with 19 round mag of HOT 200gr hard cast. :o
Primary = big rifle.
This makes me laugh at the 10mm or 357 being considered a woods gun. At least a .30-06 with 200gr bonded bullets and a 500 s&w hardcast
That bear makes any handgun a bad choice. Most any place does not have bears like that (grizzly/brown) and 10mm is great then.
with that, my backup would be 12g with slugs... pistols are just to small :o
So let's postulate.
If you had say a Glock with a 6" barrel, with the hottest possible 200gr ammo and NO OTHER GUN and a slim chance of firing into that beast.....would he just think they are mosquito bites........a full 19 rounds, well placed.
I am truly curious.
I can supply you with the 19 if you want to try ;D
Pablo, no, the shots would hurt, and piss him off. Can it kill him? Of course it can and with several hits it would probably die eventually by not before he ripped the shooter apart. and there is a difference in hunting with the 10mm and self deffence or back up with a 10mm. If it's all I had and I was being attacked of course I would do my best to defend myself.
Quote from: Freetime on March 06 2015 11:15:52 AM MST
Pablo, no, the shots would hurt, and piss him off. Can it kill him? Of course it can and with several hits it would probably die eventually by not before he ripped the shooter apart. and there is a difference in hunting with the 10mm and self deffence or back up with a 10mm. If it's all I had and I was being attacked of course I would do my best to defend myself.
Yeah, unless you can get off some seriously accurate, seriously quick, rounds there's going to be very little you can do against an attacking bear of that size :o As a last ditch effort, to at least go out swinging, I'd do whatever I could even if it was futile. Maybe you'll get lucky; it couldn't hurt... Certainly not any more than it's going to! :))
OK thanks. Still best to shoot your buddy in the leg.
Quote from: Pablo on March 06 2015 01:33:57 PM MST
OK thanks. Still best to shoot your buddy in the leg.
Also a viable strategy :))
Quote from: Freetime on March 06 2015 12:36:31 AM MST
That bear makes any handgun a bad choice. Most any place does not have bears like that (grizzly/brown) and 10mm is great then.
No follow up but the power is there.
(http://www.spanielsport.com/photos/i-5NchDTH/0/XL/i-5NchDTH-XL.jpg)
416 Rigby beside 30-06 casing Laying down...
(http://www.spanielsport.com/photos/i-DDzx7cB/0/M/i-DDzx7cB-M.jpg)
And standing up.
(http://www.spanielsport.com/photos/i-FdRqw77/0/XL/i-FdRqw77-XL.jpg)
4300 ft-lb out of a 350g soft nose pushed by 95g of Reloder17. Got to make the first one count because follow-up shots are a b!+c#.
Greg
They say Bear spray is also very effective. I think I would carry some of that as well. If something happened and I had to be in close, that may take out the vision enough to get away.
My solution for grizzly protection? stay the hell out of grizzly territory. I dont go places where there is a much larger mammal higher up the food chain than me... That includes a lot of potential shark territory. Seen too many in areas where they arent commonly supposed to be.
I mean I'm sorry. I love my 10mm pistols, but if mean Mr. Grizzly is around, I want my .454 Casull!
10mm would be viable defense for Black bears and maybe medium browns but this thing is a beast. I'd want a 12 gauge or Barret .50 for this beast.
That's a huge bear! I've never seen tracks THAT big! :o
If you're going to be in the deep back country, you're going to be carrying...
Bear Spray... if you're a backpacker/climber.
12ga with slugs if you're an outfitter. Or some big bore rifle with hard cast or high velocity, hard hitting ammo.
The 10mm... purely backup... totally last resort.
Seriously this is the gun I would pack with a light to attach and I would carry hardball in first barrel and a foster slug in barrel two.
http://www.mossberg.com/product/shotguns-break-action-maverick-over-under-thunder-ranch-hs12/75462 (http://www.mossberg.com/product/shotguns-break-action-maverick-over-under-thunder-ranch-hs12/75462)
Back up model 20 stoked with FMJ 165grain flat point loaded to their full potential. I choose the 10 over a 454 or larger because the 10 is far more controllable follow up shot capable.
Good quality tacticle sling will allow you to carry that shotgun easily and get it into action quickly.
I have one have literally put 500+ rounds of slugs and 00 buck through it no issues.
The other gun I would add to the mix us a SBR or carbine in 458 SOCOM
I guess it would be better than a .22.
I still prefer my .454 Casull, though.
Quote from: Intercooler on March 05 2015 04:36:48 PM MST
A friend put this up today
(https://scontent-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10395812_795461803854499_4861473975093537359_n.jpg?oh=b3d6afac935b26ff4e4902a01b036ed7&oe=5591CAB6)
Anymore questions why you need a BIGGER one and maybe the 10mm as a back-up? :o
What caliber was used to shoot that bear?
.
A tranquilizer gun with a heavy dose! It was tagged...
I have a lot of experience in densely populated brown bear country. Quite remote. . I've shot for my life with a 44 mag, 320gr Cast Performance WLN pushed by 20+ gr H110 from a 5 1/2" Redhawk. Not a very big brown bear. I didn't get bit ect. But I was very underwhelmed with the handgun. Finished that fight with my 458. I've also stopped charges with the 416s and 458 Win Mag. Those are absolutely decisive !
Not trying to start a rouw but the 12 ga. SUCKS at stopping/dumping brown bear. Unless your using special slugs like the Heavy Brenneke high velocity slugs. Then its like a 45/70. With buckshot you will get very shallow penetration. The typical deer slugs only penetrate 6-8" and won't smash a brown bears shoulder.
A 375 works good but the 416s and 458 work spectacularly.
I've been in far too many of these brown bear threads I usually avoid them anymore.
I've had and packed revolvers up to the 480 Ruger Super Redhawk. Which is one of my favorites as I can shoot it ok with a 400+ gr bullet at 1200 fps.
The 500 Smith +Wesson with 400+ grain bullets at high velocity works very well. Better than any shotgun I've ever seen.
Tho I don't live and work.in dense brown bear country now. If I did I would pack my G20. Loaded with the same 220 gr Hard cast Buffalo Bore TC bullet. Just like I do here. The reason is. I get good hits with it. Hits are what count. But when Im in brown bear country I also pack a dead reliable crf bolt rifle in 338 Win Mag or larger
Threoys abound with bear defense threads. But flat charges are EXTREMELY RARE !!!!!
Usually a bear that is a punk adolescent will root and beller around trying to work.up the courage to give u a go. Or a sow is protecting but mostly teaching her cubs how to deal with the 2 legged problem. Over 90% of the time you have plenty of time to get your gun ready. Just backing off teaches bears to push you. Just like dealing with an aggressive dog.
Thru my experience with brown bear, I've learned that bolt rifles in 416 or 458 are the best tool to have. For those new to dealing with bears, if they are good buddies with their big bore rifle. They will have the confidence torun the bear, bears off without a shot being fired.
Ime the attitude and demeanor of a Marine Corps drill Sargent is the best to have to train brown bear to fear man. Which is the only correct response a bear should have with a human. If all you have is a G20 then you just gotta have abit more intestinal fortitude. I've done it several times with short barreled 357 mag revolver, S+W Sigma in 40 S+W, 41 mag, 44 mag, 45 Colt and 480 Ruger handguns.
Bumping into a bear the size of the one pictured is a very rare event.
The most dangerous bears are the old ones that are starving. They plan to eat you and only their death will stop them. Those are the bears you really need to have your S#!+ together on.
Since a chambered, safed rifle in your hands is faster to get off an accurate shot than a handgun in a holster. That is how I pack mine. Also why I use the Ruger M77 Mk2 actioned rifles. They are the safest rifles there are when on full safe and have the half safe feature if you (Think) something might happen around the next bend in the trail.
Good stuff especially the behavioral response......agreed so that said I will choose my 375 GNR #2 shooting 250 grain Hardcast FP slug at 2600 FPS short handi lever action rifle with 7 rounds.
I also think the G20 can do the job in that running high stress defensive handgun drills I am very accurate with the G20. Heck I once turned back a mother black bear who had bluff charged me 4 times with water bottle and squirt to the face at 7 feet. Notice I said bluff charge or I may not be typing this........
Quote from: Intercooler on March 05 2015 04:36:48 PM MST
A friend put this up today
(https://scontent-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10395812_795461803854499_4861473975093537359_n.jpg?oh=b3d6afac935b26ff4e4902a01b036ed7&oe=5591CAB6)
Anymore questions why you need a BIGGER one and maybe the 10mm as a back-up? :o
Have any of you ballistic "experts" read about a lil Indian girl named Bella Twin?
"Bella Twin, an Indian girl, and her friend Dave Auger were hunting grouse near Lesser Slave Lake in northern Alberta. The only gun they had was Bella's single-shot bolt-action .22 Rimfire rifle. They were walking a cutline that had been made for oil exploration when they saw a large grizzly following the same survey line toward them. If they ran, the bear would probably notice them and might chase, so they quietly sat down on a brush pile and hoped that the bear would pass by without trouble. But the bear came much too close, and when the big boar was only a few yards away, Bella Twin shot him in the side of the head with a .22 Long cartridge. The bear dropped, kicked and then lay still. Taking no chances, Bella went up close and fired all of the cartridges she had, seven or eight .22 Longs, into the bear's head. That bear, killed in 1953, was the world-record grizzly for several years and is still high in the records today. "So a 22LONG killed a WORLD RECORD grizz back in 1953... its the old adage not so much WHAT you use as HOW you use it.
I personally would prefer a 12G. :) But you can bet your last $$ my Glock 10MM will be there too. ;D
CW