Are the bugs worked out of the Gen 4 Glock 20's? Might pick up a Gen 4 for the slimmer grip. I just know that the Gen 3 is proven...
see if you can find a shop with both. I searched until I did and was very glad. I have medium-size hands and the G4 was very uncomfortable. Unless you have baseball mits for hands, you may find the G420 too big a grip. I have had the G3 SF for 3 months now (1500+ rounds) and absolutely love how it feels.
No issue with my Gen 4, but I use the 24 pound RSA from Glockmeister with Underwood ammo.
All the bugs worked out of Gen4 G20? No. If you want the most reliable G20, Gen3/Gen3SF is the way to go. Gen4 is certainly not worthy of "Glock Perfection" label...
I agree with chucky2 G20sf Gen3 Glocks best 10mm - next is the G29sf Gen3.
Doug
Gen4 since I am left handed, no problems with it in stock configuration with Underwood ammo. I did get a Brass Stacker 22# RSA just to test out and I like it, so switching between the two RSAs currently...
And that really is the problem with Gen4: Using full power/max power ammo, you might get one that is reliable each time you pull the trigger, and you might get one that's not. The incidence rate for Gen3/Gen3SF was much less when I was researching prior to buying my Gen4, and in the cases where people did have problems, they almost always were able to cure them. With Gen4, if you have a FTF w/ real power 10mm ammo, Glock's official cure (after you escalate to them, and spend more of your $ shipping the firearm back to them, perhaps 2-3x), is: Well, we can give you a Gen3SF.
Your choice is this basically: Take a gamble on Gen4, or, take far far less of a gamble on Gen3/Gen3SF.
It appears Glock has cleaned out the cobwebs for the G4 G20. There was an initial issue with the earlier models, but since they changed the RSA, no more issues than a G3.
My G4 G20 was test fired 1/2014....I've have been shooting different loads, from target to Underwood/Buffalo Bore, and have had no issues. I have the stock barrel and a 6' KKM, no issues with either barrel.
When you purchase the G4 G20, just check the test fire date; if it is before 1/2014, you may want to verify with Glock it has the correct RSA.
What is this RSA business redbaron007? The only thing I've heard Glock say, through people on this site, never Glock officially direct to their customers, is we should be using the #4 followers (which I've tried to obtain 3x from them...never came ((and yes I asked nicely and was polite))). You're saying they have a new updated RSA for Gen4 G20's?
Quote from: chucky2 on February 19 2015 02:35:22 PM MST
What is this RSA business redbaron007? The only thing I've heard Glock say, through people on this site, never Glock officially direct to their customers, is we should be using the #4 followers (which I've tried to obtain 3x from them...never came ((and yes I asked nicely and was polite))). You're saying they have a new updated RSA for Gen4 G20's?
Here's the link the G4 RSA recall; http://us.glock.com/customer-service/recoil-spring-exchange. Although it says before June 2011; I've been told the G4 G20s have had some issues prior to the 1/2014 production.
The followers is a hit or miss from what I have heard. I've got about 10 mags with different followers, they all seem to operate fine with my gun. Most G4 models before 2014 may need to have their RSA replaced. 1
I actually had seen that but didn't think Gen4 G20's were even available before then. I ordered mine in like Jan 2014 and got it in March 2014 (GSSF purchase)...there weren't too many on the web that had Gen4 G20's at that point in time. When I paid (a good sum of money) to send my pistol back to Glock, they shot it with 200gr Blazer ammo and pronounced it Glock Perfection...they didn't replace anything in it. Certainly if anyone has a Gen4 G20 made then they should send in for the RSA, but, I don't think Glock has a fix for Gen4 G20 at this point in time (RSA, #4 follower, or otherwise)...so many customers pistols just remain broke. Can't count on broke...
I ordered mine too through the GSSF purchase program. Mine was order in Feb/Mar 2013, I took possession of mine in Mar 2014. Mine was test fired in Jan 2014. When mine came through the LGS, which is a LEO supplier, they had not received any G4 G20, mine was their first. Subsequently, they have had several come through over the last year; none, to their knowledge, has had any issues. The gunsmith there is a Glock Armorer, as I was until last year. He had heard of some concerns for the G4s including the G20, but had not ran into anything with them.
From what I had heard, anecdotal, there were a few things happening, but all were very inconsistent. The followers seemed to reduce most of the issues, but the RSA still seemed to be suspect, at least in the first run of them. Since receiving mine, I've had zero issues. I know several of the range personnel at the BPS pistol range and have asked them to track any of the G4 G20 issues they hear about. So far, the only thing they have run into is a couple have been limp-wristing. The range personal would shoot the same ammo and mag in the same gun and have no issues. They even videoed one person with their iPhone in slow mo to show what was happening. Other than that, that is it.
But are any of these folks using real power 10mm ammo? I can shoot mine with bulk .40 with my KKM conversion barrel and almost never have an issue (and when I do I don't get mad, that's certainly not a supported configuration). I can shoot mine with .40 S&W powered 10mm and almost never have an issue (although I've had a few FTF over maybe 700 10mm rounds). But if I shoot full power or top power 10mm, I can definitely get FTF.
The thing is, I'm out of shape and certainly don't have the strongest grip or beefiest wrists, so I can accept it might be me causing the 10mm FTF. The problem is, I've had two guys shoot the top/max power 10mm and if you clamped the gun down you'd be hard pressed to have less wrist action - one is a former wrestler who's in pretty good shape and the other is is older brother who is a naturally brauny dude. They too have the same rate of FTF as I do. Others on this site have Gen4 G20 (who also have Gen3/3SF and/or other large recoil weapons that they manage to shoot without issue) and have FTF issues.
When Glock's own fix to Gen4 G20 FTF is to give people a Gen3, you know there's a problem. The problem is, Glock doens't seem inclined to fix it (probably due to low G20 numbers vs other calibers). And so those of us with broken Gen4 G20's continue to wait for Glock to issue a fix...
Quote from: chucky2 on February 20 2015 10:12:14 AM MST
But are any of these folks using real power 10mm ammo? I can shoot mine with bulk .40 with my KKM conversion barrel and almost never have an issue (and when I do I don't get mad, that's certainly not a supported configuration). I can shoot mine with .40 S&W powered 10mm and almost never have an issue (although I've had a few FTF over maybe 700 10mm rounds). But if I shoot full power or top power 10mm, I can definitely get FTF.
The thing is, I'm out of shape and certainly don't have the strongest grip or beefiest wrists, so I can accept it might be me causing the 10mm FTF. The problem is, I've had two guys shoot the top/max power 10mm and if you clamped the gun down you'd be hard pressed to have less wrist action - one is a former wrestler who's in pretty good shape and the other is is older brother who is a naturally brauny dude. They too have the same rate of FTF as I do. Others on this site have Gen4 G20 (who also have Gen3/3SF and/or other large recoil weapons that they manage to shoot without issue) and have FTF issues.
When Glock's own fix to Gen4 G20 FTF is to give people a Gen3, you know there's a problem. The problem is, Glock doens't seem inclined to fix it (probably due to low G20 numbers vs other calibers). And so those of us with broken Gen4 G20's continue to wait for Glock to issue a fix...
Your gun may have had issues....therefore, to satisfy you, they gave you a G3. It's hard to solve something one can't replicate.
I have no idea what, except for a couple of G4 owners shoot others have shot; so they could be shooting 10mm lite loads....again I have no idea. I know I haven't and at least two others who own G4 G20s have had no issues; we have have shot BB/UW and some hot reloads with no issues. I've done it with my stock and KKM barrel.....actually I take that back....now that I think about it, I had a feeding issue with one used mag someone gave me, it turned out to be the spring...I was shooting Georgia Arms target loads with it. Replaced the spring.....good to go.
And as many have quoted before me, we all know what is said on the internet is true. I have personal knowledge of at least 3 G4 G20s operating as expected; beyond that, everything is speculatory (sp) at best.
Glock didn't give me a Gen3/3SF - they sent me back a still malfunctioning pistol they pronounced good after shooting weak 10mm in it.
Your posts and mine are basically a perfect representation of the trust level someone can apply to Gen4 G20 with real power 10mm: Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't. It doesn't sound like the OP wants to lean towards maybe...
Chucky, did you try a 24 pound RSA in the gun with the hot ammo?
My Gen 4 works with this setup.
Nope have not. I have two late stage cancer parents I live with, plus I'm in lovely IL, on the southside no less, so there are really not many places to shoot here and I have little spare time to go do it. If they're doing well this summer, I'll probably get a few different weight RSA now that they have them for Gen4 G20 and be able to give them a go our by our lakeplace. Thing is, I don't have much Underwood left, and I have only like 50 rounds of the PBR Velocity Supreme left, so I don't have much left that causes FTF. If I buy more, then, I'm now stuck with a lot of ammo that causes FTF you know? I really wish Glock would have fixed my pistol or just admitted they can't fix it and offered me a Gen3SF. We'll see - I don't like the idea that I have to modify the gun because the manufacturer has issues and doesn't want to own up to them. I could see that from Bob's Gunsmithing but not a major like Glock, especially since their punchline is Glock Perfection (and their rep honestly is on guns that just work). It's not Glock Perfection if I go to pull the trigger with in SAAMI spec ammo and it doesn't go bang because it FTF.
Well I had the same dilemma Iam not going to preach one is better than the other,I actually could have bought a Gen 4 under the green tag program, but opted for the gen 3 because I wanted to do different mods to it to personal it and there are more aftermarket parts for the older genration of Glocks at this time if you don't want to do any mods,I don't see how you could go wrong with either one.
Chucky....sorry for your problems.
On a side note, you should be able to tell the difference with a box or two from Underwood. I noticed the difference with one box fired. I use the 24 pound RSA from Glockmeister.
Good luck, and I hope your parents are doing better.
Quote from: 4949shooter on February 27 2015 03:00:11 AM MST
Chucky....sorry for your problems.
On a side note, you should be able to tell the difference with a box or two from Underwood. I noticed the difference with one box fired. I use the 24 pound RSA from Glockmeister.
Good luck, and I hope your parents are doing better.
Thx, they're normally do very well for what they have...had some unlucky news lately but I think with a surgery they'll be back to good (at least that's what we're hoping).
I haven't priced the RSA's for Gen4 G20 but if they're not a lot I'm just going to get a 20, 22, and 24. I've read that the stock Gen4 G20
might have a higher cumulative rate spring than the pre-Gen4 (based on brass thrown distance someone was theorizing that, not sure if any official measurements have even been done). Will see if that makes a difference. Probably will get Wolff +10% springs as well. Thing is, others who have had this issue in their Gen4 G20's have also tried stuff like this, and I don't think anyone has actually solved their FTF issues - you might actually be the first, although, you didn't shoot with the stock RSA so you don't know if you have the FTF issue in the first place, right?
Chuck
Quote from: chucky2 on February 27 2015 08:46:56 AM MST
Quote from: 4949shooter on February 27 2015 03:00:11 AM MST
Chucky....sorry for your problems.
On a side note, you should be able to tell the difference with a box or two from Underwood. I noticed the difference with one box fired. I use the 24 pound RSA from Glockmeister.
Good luck, and I hope your parents are doing better.
Thx, they're normally do very well for what they have...had some unlucky news lately but I think with a surgery they'll be back to good (at least that's what we're hoping).
I haven't priced the RSA's for Gen4 G20 but if they're not a lot I'm just going to get a 20, 22, and 24. I've read that the stock Gen4 G20 might have a higher cumulative rate spring than the pre-Gen4 (based on brass thrown distance someone was theorizing that, not sure if any official measurements have even been done). Will see if that makes a difference. Probably will get Wolff +10% springs as well. Thing is, others who have had this issue in their Gen4 G20's have also tried stuff like this, and I don't think anyone has actually solved their FTF issues - you might actually be the first, although, you didn't shoot with the stock RSA so you don't know if you have the FTF issue in the first place, right?
Chuck
I shot one box of Underwood with the stock RSA and had one FTF. Switched over to the 24 pound and it has been smooth sailing ever since.
I wouldn't guarantee it will work for your gun, but for the $30 cost of the RSA it might be worth a try.
Cool, will shoot you a PM when we get closer to spring. Thx for the info!
Anytime!
Interesting. I had a G20 years ago and was looking at a local gun store thinking about getting another one and they emphasized all they had was a Gen 4.
The RSA recall at that time had nothing to do with Gen4 G20's. They were not released until 2013. Look back at Shot Show videos on youtube at that time and you will see Glock demonstrating the Gen4 G20 which has malfunctions as the Glock rep was shooting the gun. I bought one of the early Gen4 G20's. It would not function properly with any ammo. I detailed my issues on this website and got a lot of help from a number of members here particularly Intercooler who exchanged over 800 rounds of ammo with me so I could see what power it was failing with. Turned out everything.
Glock replaced it with a Gen3. As far as limp wristing goes, I can't make my Gen3 fail no matter the ammo as long as I use the stock RSA. Grip simply doesn't matter. So, if Gen4's are still particular with grip, I wouldn't go there. My Gen3 is the most reliable pistol I've ever owned or used.
Go with a Gen3.
First post to this fine forum.
I am new to the 10mm game. I have other Glocks, gen4's, so I recently ordered a gen4 Glock 20, as I like the smaller grip and the texture. While waiting for my gun to come in, I found this forum. I was now getting a little worried about my ordered glock 20 gen4, after reading about the problems some are having. Being from Jersey, it's a real PITA getting permits to purchase handguns. If there is a problem with the gun, it's not that simple to return or exchange one for another. To make a long story short, I ended up with a glock 20sf purely by accident. My dealer had difficulty getting the gen4 and told me he had a 20sf in stock. I took that as a sign and took the sf. Fired it yesterday for the first time, only 100 rounds, 50 PPU and 50 Underwoood 180gr FMJ. The gun functioned flawlessly. I bought a spare RSA kit with 20,22 & 24 lb springs just in case. I don't think I'll be needing it though as the gun was great with the stock spring. Thanks to all who have provided great information. I'm glad I found this place.
I believe the Gen 3 SF has the same "grip length" as the gen 4 with the smallest insert.
Please correct me if this is wrong.
Quote from: Travis on March 12 2015 10:07:05 PM MDT
I believe the Gen 3 SF has the same "grip length" as the gen 4 with the smallest insert.
Please correct me if this is wrong.
Some "experts" will tell you the Gen 4 grip is slightly smaller than the Gen 3 SF, but they feel exactly the same to me, and I own both.
Quote from: 4949shooter on March 13 2015 03:55:59 AM MDT
Quote from: Travis on March 12 2015 10:07:05 PM MDT
I believe the Gen 3 SF has the same "grip length" as the gen 4 with the smallest insert.
Please correct me if this is wrong.
Some "experts" will tell you the Gen 4 grip is slightly smaller than the Gen 3 SF, but they feel exactly the same to me, and I own both.
I agree with you.....I've shot both and can not tell the difference. I do like the dovetail, though. ;D
Hello, first time poster and bumping a old thread. I was wondering if there is any update on the issues discussed here. I have a glock gen 3 that I picked up mainly for hiking and hunting as a side arm in Alaska. Some friends and family are looking into the pistol also but I'm wondering if I should recommend the gen 3 as reliability is the top priority for type of use.
Also as far as upgrades go should I just leave everything stock with reliability priority? Would like to upgrade the trigger (3.5-4lb). Also want to use a 6" barrel. Stick with glock barrels?
Thanks for any help. Live in Homer but in Kodiak right now hauling freight with a landing craft so will be in and out of phone/internet range.
Quote from: Unimakpass on September 01 2016 07:44:20 AM MDT
Hello, first time poster and bumping a old thread. I was wondering if there is any update on the issues discussed here. I have a glock gen 3 that I picked up mainly for hiking and hunting as a side arm in Alaska. Some friends and family are looking into the pistol also but I'm wondering if I should recommend the gen 3 as reliability is the top priority for type of use.
Also as far as upgrades go should I just leave everything stock with reliability priority? Would like to upgrade the trigger (3.5-4lb). Also want to use a 6" barrel. Stick with glock barrels?
Thanks for any help. Live in Homer but in Kodiak right now hauling freight with a landing craft so will be in and out of phone/internet range.
Welcome!
I will go out on a limb here and say the issues have been resolved. I'm still using the stock G4 spring assembly for all my loads; target to hunting/performance loads. I have not had any issues. I still switch out the barrels; stock for target/plunking and KKM for hunting/lead ammo. If a person purchases a new G4 G20 now, there should be no issues. Although, if they were to buy a used G4, (potentially a 1st version of the G4) they may want to shoot it with target and performance loads to see if there are any concerns. I got my G4 in 2014.
Thanks 007, I was hoping this was the case. It sounds like some claim that the gen4 has noticeably less recoil than gen3. My sister is looking into this pistol and that alone, along with the smaller grip, would make a big difference for her.
Looks like I'll be ordering the suggested barrel and spring options.
I can't say if my issues have been resolved or not. I ordered - from Glock (who after 3 requests never bothered to send me the #4 followers I asked for to solve the FTF issue) a new RSA, new mag springs, and new #4 followers (the latest at this time). I also when I took my mags apart tried to determine if they were hanging up anywhere, and thought that where the metal insert in them has the injection molded plastic coming through might be a little rough, so I filed that down, and at the top of the mag where the metal insert ends, I filed that some down also.
Since I only had 100 rds of the PBR ammo left, I went ahead and shot that with my new stuff and filed mags, and, I can report that I didn't have a single FTF, whereas before there would have been several FTF; I used all three mags shooting the 100 rds.
I have such little time to shoot, I haven't even bothered ordering more PBR - but I will I guess, I want to see if the FTF is fixed, and then, start adding the old components back in one at a time and see if I can reproduce the FTF consistently...it'd be nice to know where the issue was, maybe it'd help someone else.
As for is the issue solved? I can't say. If you get a 'first stock' G20 Gen4 like I have, will you have issues? If you get a new stock (to my knowledge, there have been zero revisions to Gen4 G20 so they'd all be the same, save for at whatever point, they start shipping with #4 followers), will you have issues? My suggestion would be to get 400 rds of the ammo you're going to depend on and make sure to shoot at least a couple hundred rounds of it to make sure you don't end up with Glock Perfection like I (and others) did. Unfortunately, when it's your life you're depending on, you can't just assume Glock Perfection...there's no way I'd do that with a Gen4 G20. I second the KKM barrel though, zero complaints with mine.
Thanks, it sounds like the sure way is to get the latest gen4, if one is to go that direction, and then put plenty of actual rounds through it that a person will depending on. Bin using Buffalo Bore 220gn. Need to upgrade spring and aftermarket 6" barrel.
Glad I ran into this site. Didn't have a clue about some of these issues. Can save a guy a lot miles and possibly more than that.
When I bought the gen3 it was the only option available in Homer. Feeling good about that now.
I honestly don't know if a spring change is even needed for Gen4. I could have sworn I'd read that the Gen4 RSA has a higher poundage than the pre-Gen4 RSA...or at least remember reading someone commenting on that. I'd be interested to see if that is indeed true or not...I think there's an assumption out there that the Gen4 RSA is the same poundage (17 is what I believe pre-Gen4 is) as the pre-Gen4. I'm not SURE that assumption is correct.
Quote from: Unimakpass on September 01 2016 10:33:53 AM MDT
Thanks 007, I was hoping this was the case. It sounds like some claim that the gen4 has noticeably less recoil than gen3. My sister is looking into this pistol and that alone, along with the smaller grip, would make a big difference for her.
Looks like I'll be ordering the suggested barrel and spring options.
My two oldest daughters (23 & 21) have shot my G4; one handles the recoil with my setup; however, the other, who has shorter fingers and smaller hand, likes to change out the backstraps, but then only shoots it a few times...not real found of the recoil.
My daughter is shooting a 357 smith and I'm waiting to see how she likes the glock. She is on horses allot in bear country and most pack wheel guns-41,44 and some 454. She will probably stick with the revolver ,however will try to make the 10 as appealing as possible. Apparently the glock 40 has the least recoil but a lot of iron to pack.
Chuck, was thinking of spring change in gen3. If one goes with the heavier spring will it work with the lighter rounds? I see some have 3 different spring weights.
Quote from: Unimakpass on September 01 2016 01:51:26 PM MDT
Chuck, was thinking of spring change in gen3. If one goes with the heavier spring will it work with the lighter rounds? I see some have 3 different spring weights.
Let me preface this with, I'm a
very casual shooter, don't own a pre-Gen4 10mm or have ever owned one, and am not a gunsmith.
From what I was reading of the pre-Gen4 G20's, some people could switch to say a 24 lb recoil spring and still shoot weak 10mm (say, Blazer), some couldn't. I think what you'd have to do there is test it out. The nice thing is most aren't looking to switch recoil spring and then carry with really weak ammo, they use that at the range. So you can do the recoil spring switch, shoot the cheap weak ammo at the range, and if it doesn't work, either decide to live with the unreliability, or, go back down a little to something like 22 lb.
I believe I also read though if you switch to a higher poundage recoil spring, the felt recoil increases. Not massively, but that was the trend I remember reading.
Unless you are using Gen3 springs in a Gen4 pistol, the Gen's don't compare. Using a 24# spring is a stretch. The factory RSA is only 17#. A true 20# spring is usually all that's needed for maximum loads, while still able to reliably cycle light loads. If you upgrade the RSA, shoot a mag or two of .40SW. If they all cycle, then it will cycle all the 10mm offerings. If you use a 24# spring and it cycles "light" loads or .40's, it isn't a 24# spring. A true 22# spring won't reliably cycle lightweights. This personally verified with thousands of rounds and weight-measured RSA's, 14-26# evens. 24-26# springs are essentially useless for 10mm (but handy for .40/.45S and .460R).
Quote from: DM1906 on September 02 2016 10:10:50 AM MDT
Unless you are using Gen3 springs in a Gen4 pistol, the Gen's don't compare. Using a 24# spring is a stretch. The factory RSA is only 17#. A true 20# spring is usually all that's needed for maximum loads, while still able to reliably cycle light loads. If you upgrade the RSA, shoot a mag or two of .40SW. If they all cycle, then it will cycle all the 10mm offerings. If you use a 24# spring and it cycles "light" loads or .40's, it isn't a 24# spring. A true 22# spring won't reliably cycle lightweights. This personally verified with thousands of rounds and weight-measured RSA's, 14-26# evens. 24-26# springs are essentially useless for 10mm (but handy for .40/.45S and .460R).
Thanks DM1906! Unimakpass, there's your answer...
I've replaced all but one of my Gen 3 Glocks with Gen 4 and not one single issue. I prefer the grip and extended Mag catch on the Gen 4.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Quote from: DM1906 on September 02 2016 10:10:50 AM MDT
Unless you are using Gen3 springs in a Gen4 pistol, the Gen's don't compare. Using a 24# spring is a stretch. The factory RSA is only 17#. A true 20# spring is usually all that's needed for maximum loads, while still able to reliably cycle light loads. If you upgrade the RSA, shoot a mag or two of .40SW. If they all cycle, then it will cycle all the 10mm offerings. If you use a 24# spring and it cycles "light" loads or .40's, it isn't a 24# spring. A true 22# spring won't reliably cycle lightweights. This personally verified with thousands of rounds and weight-measured RSA's, 14-26# evens. 24-26# springs are essentially useless for 10mm (but handy for .40/.45S and .460R).
I may be missing something here, but a G3 spring is not interchangeable with a G4; G3 are a single spring, G4 is a dual spring configuration. Otherwise, don't disagree.
Quote from: redbaron007 on September 06 2016 12:51:43 PM MDT
Quote from: DM1906 on September 02 2016 10:10:50 AM MDT
Unless you are using Gen3 springs in a Gen4 pistol, the Gen's don't compare. Using a 24# spring is a stretch. The factory RSA is only 17#. A true 20# spring is usually all that's needed for maximum loads, while still able to reliably cycle light loads. If you upgrade the RSA, shoot a mag or two of .40SW. If they all cycle, then it will cycle all the 10mm offerings. If you use a 24# spring and it cycles "light" loads or .40's, it isn't a 24# spring. A true 22# spring won't reliably cycle lightweights. This personally verified with thousands of rounds and weight-measured RSA's, 14-26# evens. 24-26# springs are essentially useless for 10mm (but handy for .40/.45S and .460R).
I may be missing something here, but a G3 spring is not interchangeable with a G4; G3 are a single spring, G4 is a dual spring configuration. Otherwise, don't disagree.
This is correct.
However, aftermarket Gen3 springs can be used in Gen4 pistols, but an adapter is required (a simple bushing). The Gen4 RSA's are not
easily weight-adjustable (yet, but there isn't much in the way of an advantage), so the remainder of my statement was referring to the Gen3 springs, used in either Gen. This is important to folks with Gen4 G20's that don't like certain ammo the shooter might prefer. The use of an aftermarket Gen3 RSA with the adapter will almost always cure that issue (when properly tuned), but loses the advantage of the progressive Gen4 RSA. My "the Gen's don't compare" comment was referring to the pistols in factory form. Adapting the use of the Gen3 RSA in the Gen4 pistol allows it to behave exactly like a Gen3, in regards to action function.
"This is correct.
However, aftermarket Gen3 springs can be used in Gen4 pistols, but an adapter is required (a simple bushing). The Gen4 RSA's are not easily weight-adjustable (yet, but there isn't much in the way of an advantage), so the remainder of my statement was referring to the Gen3 springs, used in either Gen. This is important to folks with Gen4 G20's that don't like certain ammo the shooter might prefer. The use of an aftermarket Gen3 RSA with the adapter will almost always cure that issue (when properly tuned), but loses the advantage of the progressive Gen4 RSA. My "the Gen's don't compare" comment was referring to the pistols in factory form. Adapting the use of the Gen3 RSA in the Gen4 pistol allows it to behave exactly like a Gen3, in regards to action function."
Gotcha.....I thought that were you were going with that, but wanted to make sure. From my experience, there is really not a comparison when one tries to use the 'adapter' in the G4. Just my personal experience; I'm not a fan of the adapter use.
Quote from: GPG on February 18 2015 04:55:04 PM MST
see if you can find a shop with both. I searched until I did and was very glad. I have medium-size hands and the G4 was very uncomfortable. Unless you have baseball mits for hands, you may find the G420 too big a grip. I have had the G3 SF for 3 months now (1500+ rounds) and absolutely love how it feels.
The Gen4 grip is slightly smaller than the SF, yet you say that it's larger?
Is that a typo, or did you mean to compare a Gen3 to an SF?
Quote from: redbaron007 on September 06 2016 02:20:20 PM MDT
"This is correct.
However, aftermarket Gen3 springs can be used in Gen4 pistols, but an adapter is required (a simple bushing). The Gen4 RSA's are not easily weight-adjustable (yet, but there isn't much in the way of an advantage), so the remainder of my statement was referring to the Gen3 springs, used in either Gen. This is important to folks with Gen4 G20's that don't like certain ammo the shooter might prefer. The use of an aftermarket Gen3 RSA with the adapter will almost always cure that issue (when properly tuned), but loses the advantage of the progressive Gen4 RSA. My "the Gen's don't compare" comment was referring to the pistols in factory form. Adapting the use of the Gen3 RSA in the Gen4 pistol allows it to behave exactly like a Gen3, in regards to action function."
Gotcha.....I thought that were you were going with that, but wanted to make sure. From my experience, there is really not a comparison when one tries to use the 'adapter' in the G4. Just my personal experience; I'm not a fan of the adapter use.
I don't disagree. The Gen4 pistols run fine with a Gen3 RSA, but like I said, it will lose the advantage of the Gen4 RSA. If you aren't having specific issues with the Gen4 pistol, it is a poor choice to use a Gen3 RSA. This only applies to the G20. The G40's seem to have a more generous appetite for ammo variety, due to the slide/barrel mass I'm certain. They could be used in the G40, but I haven't seen a need for it, yet.
Just a note about the adapters....
When used according to recommendation, the adapter bushing should be installed within the assembly. However, if multiple spring assemblies are intended (if you have a bunch of them around, like me), the bushing can be installed ahead of the RSA. The bushings aren't cheap, and it could save a lot of time (disassembling/reassembling RSA's) when tuning a pistol before a final choice. I do not recommend anyone install them "free" in a carried pistol. They are solid, but there is a possibility of movement, however slight. That's a game stopper that won't stop your game (if you're hunting).
Thanks for all the information. Feel like I got a base to work from. Just got back from hauling freight to Uganik Bay at Kodiak Island. Went ahead and got a glock 20 gen4. Figured if I'm going to upgrade trigger, barrel, ect. might as well start from that platform. Can lone the gen3 to the crew with the stock trigger when we go off hiking in different directions.
Also read that "hard cast" bullets are fine in glock barrels. It's "lead" bullets that cause the fouling. Good news because it sounds like glock barrels are the most reliable.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=54
Quote from: Unimakpass on September 10 2016 01:17:39 PM MDT
Thanks for all the information. Feel like I got a base to work from. Just got back from hauling freight to Uganik Bay at Kodiak Island. Went ahead and got a glock 20 gen4. Figured if I'm going to upgrade trigger, barrel, ect. might as well start from that platform. Can lone the gen3 to the crew with the stock trigger when we go off hiking in different directions.
Also read that "hard cast" bullets are fine in glock barrels. It's "lead" bullets that cause the fouling. Good news because it sounds like glock barrels are the most reliable.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=54 (https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=54)
"Hard cast" is "lead". Factually, hard cast is much more likely to lead a bore than pure, soft lead, all else being equal. The issue is bore diameter vs. bullet diameter, the conditions necessary to provide an ideal gas seal. A poor fit will cause leading, regardless of any other factor. If you have reservations firing lead bullets, of any type, consider them all equal. Unless you know, as fact, what is your bore diameter, and the bullet diameter, one is just as likely as any other to be good or bad.
Dang, seemed to easy to be true. Looks like more homework on hard cast and lead. Thanks.
So...what is the main recommendation?
Gen 3 Glock 20 less problematic than a Gen 4 glock 20?
What about later Gen4 glock 20 production?
And would the Glock 40 have the same Gen 4 problems?
I can only share my experiences with my G20.3. I have had zero problems with it, a couple of K through it, no factory ammo though. All warmish handloads.
Quote from: Roguer on September 10 2016 08:38:45 PM MDT
So...what is the main recommendation?
Gen 3 Glock 20 less problematic than a Gen 4 glock 20?
What about later Gen4 glock 20 production?
And would the Glock 40 have the same Gen 4 problems?
There are no changes in Gen4 G20 production that makes them differ from early Gen4 G20 production save for the #4 follower. I'm fairly certain someone with Gen4 G20 issue obtained #4 follower and it didn't fix their problem. Glock themselves was unable to fix Gen4 G20 issues, instead replacing customers firearms who insisted with Gen3SF. So make of all that what you will in regards to Gen4 G20.
Don't know about G40...
For those having issues with Gen4 G20's not feeding high(er) power rounds, a simple spring swap should be all that's needed. Either convert to a Gen3 single, or a SS Gen4 double (LWD now has them). With either option, spring weights can be tuned. It's 20-40 bucks you shouldn't have to spend, but it works. The additional slide mass of the G40 seems to take care of that issue in every case I've seen, so a re-spring should be optional.
Quote from: kreane on February 18 2015 04:43:12 PM MST
Are the bugs worked out of the Gen 4 Glock 20's? Might pick up a Gen 4 for the slimmer grip. I just know that the Gen 3 is proven...
The Gen 3 "SF" model feels VERY comfortable in my size 7.5 hand! No, you can't change backstraps, but if it fits your hand you don't need too!
Quote from: DM1906 on September 11 2016 08:03:38 PM MDT
For those having issues with Gen4 G20's not feeding high(er) power rounds, a simple spring swap should be all that's needed. Either convert to a Gen3 single, or a SS Gen4 double (LWD now has them). With either option, spring weights can be tuned. It's 20-40 bucks you shouldn't have to spend, but it works. The additional slide mass of the G40 seems to take care of that issue in every case I've seen, so a re-spring should be optional.
Can anyone shed any light on why the G40 slide is wider than the G41? ( I read that in an article that had pictures and it does indeed appear wider) How does slide mass compare between the two?
How does the slide mass compare between the Gen3 and Gen4 G20? Any changes? Barrels same? Feed ramp geometry, chamber dimensions any tighter?
Are the only differences between the generations simply some magazine follower issues and/or RSA?
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I used think the only EDIT: slide difference between Gen3SF and Gen4 G20 was the new dual RSA of the Gen4, however that is NOT true. I stated as much in a previous thread a long while ago here now and someone posted a link to either a website or PDF that listed the differences - it wasn't just the RSA.
Thanks. If anyone has the link or pdf I'd appreciate it.
Been wanting a 10mm for a long time. I'm ready for a Christmas present to myself.
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All I can tell you is that my Gen 4 20 has run flawlessly with light Privi loads all the way up to full power stuff.
I'm considering buying a G20 Gen 3 or Gen 4, or a G40. :-/
Any more current (February 2017) thoughts on reliability differences between these three choices?
DHart, welcome to the forum! I will say that the G-20SF and G-29 (before SF) are very reliable and great shooters. My only changes have been to swap to the Wolff non captive recoil rods and 22 lbs spring for the G-20 and the 21 lbs set for the G-29.
While I have some aftermarket barrels I do use the Glock factory barrels for some load development.
Best regards and enjoy the forum. :D
Quote from: The_Shadow on February 19 2017 02:35:04 PM MST
DHart, welcome to the forum! I will say that the G-20SF are very reliable and great shooters. My only changes have been to swap to the Wolff captive recoil rods and 22 lbs
+1 on the G-20SF (Gen 3) and the same modifications Shadow mentioned.
I've run everything from weakest PPU to hottest Underwoods & Buffalo Bore.
Confidence is high in G-20SF as it continues to be go to sidearm for woods or hunting.
Quote from: DHart on February 19 2017 02:18:21 PM MST
I'm considering buying a G20 Gen 3 or Gen 4, or a G40. :-/
Any more current (February 2017) thoughts on reliability differences between these three choices?
My G40 hasn't missed a beat...but the more important question to ask between the guns you mention is, what is your intended use of the pistol?
I bought my G40 primarily for hunting deer, black bear, and pigs....secondary use is protection from whatever might be threatening me and the family when we go on pretty long ATV trips up in the hills.
I considered a 20, and it would have worked OK...but the longer barrel of the 40 appealed to the ballistics junkie in me.
My intention with the G20 or G40 is for home defense and defense out on the trail. I don't intend to do any hunting. Perhaps with that in mind, the G20 Gen 3 or 4 is likely a most sensible choice for me?
I love my Gen 3 SF G20.
i dont have large hands. medium,. maybe smallish medium. I am 5.9 175, not that knpwing what will help anyone else. shooting the G20.3SF isnt a problem, but follow up shots are hard to keep on target. Not blaming the firearm. i dont limp wrist it, but hard to keep a solid grip on it. considering having grip reduction done on it. love 10mil