A solid choice in 9mm:
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/02/17/glock-19-pistols-approved-for-marsoc-operators/23548847/
Glock 19 is my go to hallway recommendation. If I have no other parameters but someone wants to know "what handgun to buy" I say Glock 19. Small enough to carry, big enough to be pleasant to shoot. 9mm ain't a 10mm, but it is not something I wanna get shot by either. Ammo is plentiful and cheap.
Not really my personal choice, but still and excellent choice.
Indeed an excellent choice.
If I were going to Iraq, say, to train the Iraqi police forces, I would not doubt bring one of ny G20's. But I would also bring a G19, for the ease of obtaining ammunition and carry. Plus the commonality of parts with the Glock samples already in country.
I'm a bit surprised it wasn't something like a G21 or G41. I've heard from a lot of soldiers returning that they were not fond of 9mm. I know some of the teams in JSOC are using the G21.
Quote from: P33v3 on February 22 2015 05:50:55 PM MST
I'm a bit surprised it wasn't something like a G21 or G41. I've heard from a lot of soldiers returning that they were not fond of 9mm. I know some of the teams in JSOC are using the G21.
I am sorta surprised on that too... especially since they have 45acp ammo available since some teams went back to a 1911
The Glock 19 is my daily carry piece so I might be a little biased but the Glock 19 is an outstanding firearm and a fine choice for these fine men.
I was never in the service but the few I have talked with that have seen combat in the last 20 years or so TO A MAN, said they would have given ANYTHING to have something stronger than a 9mm. And now, a Glock 19, 9mm - what does that have the Beretta doesn't??
Pat
Quote from: Buckeye 50 on March 02 2015 05:20:26 PM MST
And now, a Glock 19, 9mm - what does that have the Beretta doesn't??
Pat
Reliability and will fire virtually anything put in it.
I know many who absolutely hated their issued m9's, they all said the guns were horrible in dirty environments.
The M9 is a heavy big gun. The Glock 19 is a light small one.
The only thing the Beretta has over the Glock, in my opinion is second strike capability. And I have never seen a reputable defensive pistol class that taught second strike as a way to deal with a malfunction.
Don't get me wrong. I like Beretta's. I used to have one and plan to buy one again at some point. But, if I had to pick between a Beretta and a Glock 19 for general use, Glock 19 every time.
Quote from: sqlbullet on March 03 2015 09:02:25 AM MST
The M9 is a heavy big gun. The Glock 19 is a light small one.
The only thing the Beretta has over the Glock, in my opinion is second strike capability. And I have never seen a reputable defensive pistol class that taught second strike as a way to deal with a malfunction.
Don't get me wrong. I like Beretta's. I used to have one and plan to buy one again at some point. But, if I had to pick between a Beretta and a Glock 19 for general use, Glock 19 every time.
The Beretta also has a larger opening to clear jams. The entire top of the slide is open. The G19 only has a small ejection port.
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Most of that open area is over the barrel, not the action. And if you just measure action access, the Glock is not meaningfully behind since it's "small" ejection port encompasses the entire top of the slide over the action.
But OK. I will give you that the access to the action is better. Glock 19 is still a small light service sized pistol.
I am a Beretta fan.
But don't forget the open area inherent to the Beretta design lets in sand and dust. Perhaps not the best thing in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Though, I read earlier that the biggest problem with the Beretta's is the cheap (non-Beretta) magazines the military procured for them.
What I guess I meant to say was they were both 9mm's and the people I talked to all wanted something stronger than the 9, regardless of platform. So why swap a 9 for a 9 if that's the case?
Pat
Yes true. I heard they were looking at 40 and 45. Who knows why it was chosen to stay with 9mm.
What could they get that is stronger than 9mm FMJ though? Ignoring needing to defeat body armor and shoot through barriers, would not the largest diameter bullet be the best choice in FMJ? I realize the .45 doesn't have the 'reach out and touch' capabilities of the .40, but realistically, how many long distance - for pistols - shots are taken where that would really matter?
Chucky;
The LAST thing I am trying to do is create havoc over what is the best round. The guys I talked to all said that when they got hits with their then-current 9mm's, few of the bad guys stopped or slowed. Hence, their collective wish for "something stronger" whatever that might be.
Without causing too much problem, I damn well bet my various Underwood 10mm ammo would fare noticeably better!?
I want to say I have never shot anyone, let alone a lot of people with different loads so I have no real life experience to draw upon. But I have read REPEATEDLY that the Texas DPS and Rangers (maybe same people) say nothing worked better for them than the .357 magnum. I have read where many LEO's feel the same or similar about 357 sig. I know the magnum is more powerful in the heaver, hunting type loads but SEEM to be nearly identical in the 125gr. weight.
Anyway, just trying to understand. I appreciate the weight and reliability issue for the Beretta but that does nothing for the round choice. I have 0 against Beretta so no axe here to grind.
I swore I would NEVER "lower" myself to own Glocks - own 2 now: Glock 20/10mm and Glock 29/10mm. So much for famous last words! ::)
Pat
Well, the Army Modular Handgun System program will be an interesting thing to watch, since it will provide the answer of not only what the new platform will be but what the round choice will be.
Quote from: Buckeye 50 on March 05 2015 07:24:53 PM MST
I swore I would NEVER "lower" myself to own Glocks - own 2 now: Glock 20/10mm and Glock 29/10mm. So much for famous last words! ::)
Pat
What do you think of the Glock 20 and 29?
Quote from: chucky2 on March 06 2015 10:01:05 AM MST
Well, the Army Modular Handgun System program will be an interesting thing to watch, since it will provide the answer of not only what the new platform will be but what the round choice will be.
Modular meaning more things to carry, break, and/or lose.
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For sure. The modular will be the grip, so predictably what will happen is each soldier will configure their grip how they like it, then lose the rest of the kit.
Quote from: chucky2 on March 06 2015 10:01:05 AM MST
... it will provide the answer of not only what the new platform will be but what the round choice will be.
... at least for the time being! I hope that in my lifetime there will finally be an end to the brutal, savage, disgusting war we know as the "Great Caliber Debate" but I don't plan on holding my breath. :)) I'd like to see what gets chosen this go-'round and what the reasoning is behind it but I have no doubt that there will be millions of people wishing the gun would have been chambered in X caliber or Y caliber.
Sounds like it will be an exciting development nonetheless. I'm looking forward to the conclusions drawn from the testing.
Not to sidetrack the thread, but, could a smaller diameter round be fired out of a 9mm platform via something like a sabot? The reason I ask is, I wonder if they could keep the 9mm platform but then, if in the future say it came to be that everyone being encountered was getting body armor, a - let's say - 5.7 round could be put into a 9mm package, thereby keeping the pistol, mags, and cases the same.
Has anyone ever tried something like that in a pistol cartridge?
Old Glock;
I primarily switched to Glocks after my tactical training started. You can train with anything, but the ease of operation, reliability and size makes this a superior choice for me.
As far as these two specific Glocks - 20 and 29, I love them. I shoot them so well, they are extremely comfortable to handle, shoot and carry - yes even the Tank/Glock20. I will add to these with additional guns but I can't see them every leaving my inventory. To my surprise, the 29 shoots ALMOST like the 20. Both Gen 4, both with additional grips stuff for more girth.
I think they are nearly perfect (did I REALLY say that??) :o Great 10mm platforms.
Pat