Another newbie question - any major differences that affect performance of target loads between the two types of bullets used in reloading for the 10mm?
cwall64, basically the plated bullets are good but some are very thinly plated and if your velocity exceeds the strength of the plating they can lose accuracy, or can tumble or keyhole! Most say under 1200 fps but it is more like a 1000 fps with the thinner plated. There are some great plated bullets, Gold Dots are an example of that.
I have tested some and have exceeded the construction and had shards fly and poor accuracy...
Had better service from my cast bullets even being driven as high as true jacketed bullets velocities.
Quote from: The_Shadow on February 17 2015 08:37:29 AM MST
cwall64, basically the plated bullets are good but some are very thinly plated and if your velocity exceeds the strength of the plating they can lose accuracy, or can tumble or keyhole! Most say under 1200 fps but it is more like a 1000 fps with the thinner plated. There are some great plated bullets, Gold Dots are an example of that.
I have tested some and have exceeded the construction and had shards fly and poor accuracy...
Had better service from my cast bullets even being driven as high as true jacketed bullets velocities.
Thanks! I had never used in the old days, just typically stuck to Nosler, Hornady, etc or wadcutters in the revolver cartridges... I purchased Hornady HAPs, XTPs, & FMJ-FPs for my initial loads, but always looking for alternatives!
Some of the good companies have realized that their platings were too thin and offer thicker plated and double strike bullets for better quality and performance.
Quote from: cwall64 on February 17 2015 08:22:52 AM MST
any major differences that affect performance of target loads between the two types of bullets used in reloading for the 10mm?
I changes over to plated a while back... some are better than others at higher speeds as mentioned.
I really like the Xtreme heavy plated 180gr bullets. To me they are as accurate as fmj costing 2x.
Quote from: tommac919 on February 17 2015 11:46:35 AM MST
I changes over to plated a while back... some are better than others at higher speeds as mentioned.
I really like the Xtreme heavy plated 180gr bullets. To me they are as accurate as fmj costing 2x.
I'll keep those in mind for my next round of orders, I think my wife is getting tired of the UPS guy showing up every day!!!
Copper plated can also shed the plating if you exceed certain velocities. I made the mistake of trying some in my .454 Casull. Even with a bottom end load all I made was a shrapnel making machine. On the other hand, they work real well in low slow loads like .45 ACP.
Copper plated bullets come in a wide spectrum of construction. There are very thinly plated bullets like most of Berry's and Rainier. These bullets need some special "kid gloves" treatment to get best results, and typically shouldn't be loaded higher than mid-level FMJ charge weights. There are those with more robust copper like Xtreme (from what I've "heard" through firsthand experience relayed to me by loaders that have shown to be credible. I haven't personally shot them).
PowerBond is a lesser known plated bullet (they refer to them as "copper bonded") that I use more than any bullet now. It is a quality bullet. Best prices I've found are a with TJConevera. Although I tend to buy them locally via group buy discounts. They stand up to 1200 fps with no problems. I haven't pushed them further than that. I usually prefer to push premium SD bullets when going for max effort. I have found PB bullets to be extremely consistent in sizing and weight. In fact the samples I've weighed have been more consistent in weight than XTPs. I also load Precision Delta FMJs, and they are highly regarded. But the PowerBonds are noticeably more consistently sized: 0.400" on the nose. Precision Deltas can be a little undersized, or at least less-consistently sized. PowerBond recommends using regular FMJ data and to keep speeds below 1300 fps.
On the high side of the plated spectrum are Speer bullets, like the Gold Dot.
I shoot a lot of Xtreme Bullets myself
Have used and liked them since back when they were West Coast
http://www.xtremebullets.com/
But on the other hand......
Quote from: Taterhead on February 21 2015 01:37:34 PM MST
PowerBond is a lesser known plated bullet (they refer to them as "copper bonded") that I use more than any bullet now. It is a quality bullet. Best prices I've found are a with TJConevera. Although I tend to buy them locally via group buy discounts. They stand up to 1200 fps with no problems. I haven't pushed them further than that. I usually prefer to push premium SD bullets when going for max effort. I have found PB bullets to be extremely consistent in sizing and weight. In fact the samples I've weighed have been more consistent in weight than XTPs. I also load Precision Delta FMJs, and they are highly regarded. But the PowerBonds are noticeably more consistently sized: 0.400" on the nose. Precision Deltas can be a little undersized, or at least less-consistently sized. PowerBond recommends using regular FMJ data and to keep speeds below 1300 fps.
I must agree on PowerBond
They have held up to even some of my toughest 44 Mag Loads (even thru my 1894):
http://www.highbornoutdoors.com/HBO_Categories/HBO_Categories_01/HBO_PowerBond/HBO_PowerBond_01.html
I have a little problem with Xtreme bullets. I'm not sure their quality control is up to snuff. I was doing a bunch of .223 using their 55 grain bullets. Some of them were crushing the case. (Not all of them, some of them) Made me wonder if their plating thickness was even.
Gandog, are you expanding the case mouth any on the 223 cases? There are special rifle neck expanders to use with cast rifle bullets and they help immensely with the plated rifle bullets. The plated bullets can snag on the case mouth and crush, tear and or wrinkle the cases. A chamfering of the case mouth alone is not enough.
I wish they had a picture of they actual expander showing the flaring section.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/368112/lyman-neck-expander-m-die-22-caliber-short (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/368112/lyman-neck-expander-m-die-22-caliber-short)
My RCBS 30 cal looks like this one
(http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/784/784003.jpg)
Quote from: cwall64 on February 17 2015 08:22:52 AM MST
Another newbie question - any major differences that affect performance of target loads between the two types of bullets used in reloading for the 10mm?
Target loads are usually lower powered loads. I doubt you will need to shoot faster than 1100 fps with a 10mm target load. The plated bullets should be good enough unless you are a master bullseye shooter. Bullet profile may make a bigger difference in accuracy than whether or not it is jacketed or plated.
I have not found a great target load for my Glock 20 10mm.
.
Quote from: The_Shadow on February 25 2015 10:59:00 AM MST
Gandog, are you expanding the case mouth any on the 223 cases? There are special rifle neck expanders to use with cast rifle bullets and they help immensely with the plated rifle bullets. The plated bullets can snag on the case mouth and crush, tear and or wrinkle the cases. A chamfering of the case mouth alone is not enough.
I wish they had a picture of they actual expander showing the flaring section.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/368112/lyman-neck-expander-m-die-22-caliber-short (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/368112/lyman-neck-expander-m-die-22-caliber-short)
My RCBS 30 cal looks like this one
(http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/784/784003.jpg)
Here's the thing. Why do most of them slide right in, and only a few of them crush the cases? I mean I am using the Hornady dies to size all of them. I have a Lee Universal expander but it is a pain in the butt to use, and I do not have this problem at all if I used a jacketed case instead of these Xtreme copper plated cases.
I loaded some in my 357 at 1000 fps and they shedded the plating. I have also noticed that there is more recoil when loading them with the same charge as jacketed bullets of the same weight. Softer bullets can raise the pressure because they offer more resistance.
Quote from: gandog56 on February 25 2015 02:48:20 PM MST
Here's the thing. Why do most of them slide right in, and only a few of them crush the cases? I mean I am using the Hornady dies to size all of them. I have a Lee Universal expander but it is a pain in the butt to use, and I do not have this problem at all if I used a jacketed case instead of these Xtreme copper plated cases.
Most likely you brass isn't all the same height. You set the die for some taller pieces, and one short piece that doesn't reach the flare get by. When you put a bullet in the short piece, the plating tears.
.
Quote from: elmo123 on February 25 2015 02:53:36 PM MST
I loaded some in my 357 at 1000 fps and they shedded the plating. I have also noticed that there is more recoil when loading them with the same charge as jacketed bullets of the same weight. Softer bullets can raise the pressure because they offer more resistance.
many manufacturers say to load plated using low to midrange jacketed data
Did I mention I trimed them to length, and chamfered them inside and out? Heck. I even swaged out the primer pockets,
Quote from: gandog56 on February 25 2015 08:47:03 AM MST
I have a little problem with Xtreme bullets. I'm not sure their quality control is up to snuff. I was doing a bunch of .223 using their 55 grain bullets. Some of them were crushing the case. (Not all of them, some of them) Made me wonder if their plating thickness was even.
Xtreme .223 aren't plated. They are jacketed. I just loaded a full box (500 PCS) and never had an issue using LC brass.
Greg
Whatever, non x-treme, no crumpled cases, X-Tremes, lots of crumpled cases. That would tend to make me think it is not being caused by me.
Quote from: gandog56 on February 27 2015 06:05:11 AM MST
Whatever, non x-treme, no crumpled cases, X-Tremes, lots of crumpled cases. That would tend to make me think it is not being caused by me.
At the risk of getting a bit off topic... That would indicate varying diameters. Did you measure, by chance?
Nope, should have, though.