Just thinking about it, but have never bought a rifle and was wondering what I need to minimally know? Like, are the ones in the $600-$800 range even worth the money? Do certain brands/style jam more than others?
I don't know what I don't know and trust everyone here.
Thanks,
Pat
Are you handy? - you can build one with decent parts.
It depends what you need it for. Just plinking $600 gun is fine.
I bought a Daniel Defense M4D3 several years ago and it is very heavy duty. But I have more than that. I haven't killed one yet. That said the all run the same.
You should see if like shooting one first. Friends?
I have recommended this rifle to several, all love theirs. Mine has been flawless. Lot of good parts for the money..
http://www.cdnnsports.com/colt-csr-1516-5-56-16-mid-wt-bbl-free-float-1-30.html
I have built several.
If you are just looking to get into the AR game with no fuss, the Colt that rw linked would be fine.
That said, you can get a much better AR for similar money if you build, and they really are tinker toys.
Right now there is a deal on an Anderson Arms upper for $309: http://www.slickguns.com/product/anderson-16-complete-upper-minus-bcg-and-charging-handle-26999-free-shipping-all-orders-over
And usually Palmetto State has complete lowers for around $160. (although right now they are dressed in Pink...Check back in a few days for other options) http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/lowers/complete-lowers/psa-ar-15-complete-lower-classic-edition-pink-no-magazine.html
Couple things to note. I prefer mil-spec dimensions. This matters the most in the buffer tube. It isn't that mil-spec is necessarily better, but that there are specified dimensions. Commercial tubes vary, which means not all commercial sized stocks fit all commercial sized tubes.
One thing to really consider is how you plan to use the gun. Saying you want to get an AR is about like saying you want to get an handgun. It is really a starting point to a bunch more questions, as there are so many options.
Plinker, varminter, defense, three gun, etc..? What will be your use?
Your answer will determine the criteria- twist rate, barrel length, style barrel, chamber, gas system, furniture, sight system, bcg, etc....
I also have built several. For what a quality rifle sells for these days, I would buy a complete rifle over building.
I've seen 6920s for $750-850'ish. I'm not a big time M4 style fan (just personal preference) but for that price it cant be beat.
Use will be shooting at ranges, if necessary home defense. I am also taking tactical training so when I get to the rifle part of the advanced training I will need one for that.
I can probably assemble one. I am not a welder or anything like that though.
Pat
You need limited tools to build one but the receiver blocks and clamps help a lot.
Still, I'd buy a complete rifle or at least a complete upper and maybe assemble a lower.
Tools needed.
Lower: To be honest, you could build a lower with a utility knife, masking tape and a set of slip jaw pliers and patience. A small hammer and some punches make starting the roll pins easier. But, I have found once they are started, they seat well using a set of slip jaw pliers. Squeeze them in as far as one notch takes you, then go to the next notch. Smooth and steady. A small c-clamp works well too. Depending on the trigger guard you might need an allen wrench.
Upper: Here best advice is to buy unless you are gonna build several. You will need a upper vice block (or a upper extension torque tool from brownells), armorers wrench and a torque wrench. Also you should have a no-go gauge, although some guys run without them (not advisable). This all adds up to about $100 bucks in tools to build the upper.
As far as application, I would suggest a basic 16" carbine with a good carbon steel barrel, lined either chrome or melonite. A decent upper like this will turn in 1-2 MOA maybe a bit better. 16" is short enough to be handy for home defense and long enough to be legal without any NFA red tape.
My personal range gun is modeled after the Mk 12 SPR with an 18" Ranier Arms barrel, Aero Precision Lower, PSA Upper. I didn't drop a ton of money on the trigger or lower parts kit. I got a PSA Premium bolt carrier group. I am using a Model 1 Sales free float tube, and have a Bushnell Elite 3200 10X40 fixed power scope on top.
My personal home defense AR is again an Aero Precision lower with a basic lower parts kit, PSA Upper (blemished, can't tell where), CMMS 300 blackout barrel and a PSA bolt carrier group. I have a 16" UTG leapers narrow hand guard/rail on this gun with a cheapo 4X scope and 45 degree offset iron sites. I also have a flashlight mounted on this gun, an el cheapo LED that happened to have 1" barrel, so I clamped it in a spare scope ring and mounted it to a rail section.
Neither gun is full of tacticool parts that broke the bank. The SPR type I am into about $900. It ran 1" groups at 100 yards with it's first 60 rounds. I expect that to drop by 25-30% with break in and again with the right handloads.
The second I am into about $650 and I can't find powder (AA1680) or ammo locally so it has yet to be broken in.
I have 6 more lowers in my safe, one for each child. And I think I am going to buy a four pack of Anderson Arms lowers so I have some for play builds.
Hmmm.......... this could potentially turn me into a mad scientist!
Pat
Quote from: Buckeye 50 on February 16 2015 05:18:11 PM MST
Just thinking about it, but have never bought a rifle and was wondering what I need to minimally know? Like, are the ones in the $600-$800 range even worth the money? Do certain brands/style jam more than others?
I don't know what I don't know and trust everyone here.
Thanks,
Pat
1) Don't spent a lot of money on your first one: Keep it basic and as close to the military version as possible.
2) 16" barrels are good enough for what most people will be using them for: Shooting under $200 yards at paper or cans.
3) If you are over 40 years old, you probably will shoot better with an optical (red dot) sight. Red Dot sights work better on flat-top receivers. I personally still prefer the A2 style sights.
.
Couple of pics of my babies:
(http://fellingfamily.net/images/Aero300blckt.jpg)
(http://fellingfamily.net/images/Aero556SPR.jpg)
I built my first ar a couple years ago, I took it to the range twice then decided I should have done it differently sold it and tried again. My advice is stay cheap for the first.
Complete magpul lower, ready for shipping to your local gun shop (on sale today $179 - blem is used only to discount - does not affect looks or works):
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/psa-ar-15-complete-lower-magpul-ctr-black-blem.html (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/psa-ar-15-complete-lower-magpul-ctr-black-blem.html)
Just down the road from Palmetto State Armory, where the guys in town KNOW HOW to make'em -
- Columbia, South Carolina -
"We are pleased that FN America has been selected to produce the M240 family of machine guns for the U.S. Army," said Mark Cherpes, FN America President and CEO. "Since 1989, FN has produced more than two million firearms for the U.S. military at our Columbia, SC manufacturing facility. We are extremely proud of the high quality and reliable firearms we build for our service men and women and look forward to continuing this tradition."
In addition to the M240 family of machine guns, FN America also produces M4/M4A1 carbines, M16 rifles, MK19 grenade machine guns, M249 SAWs and the MK46 and MK48 machine guns."
Most accurate PSA lightweight keymod upper to complete $549 (sent direct to your home):
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/psa-16-223-wylde-1-8-fluted-ss-match-ssk15-with-bcg-and-charging-handle.html (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/psa-16-223-wylde-1-8-fluted-ss-match-ssk15-with-bcg-and-charging-handle.html)
Top it off with this 1st focal plane BDC 1 to 4 power Bushnell AR optic $180 to hit the $800 budget:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/bushnell-ar-optics-1-4x-24mm-throw-down-pcl-ar91424i.html (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/bushnell-ar-optics-1-4x-24mm-throw-down-pcl-ar91424i.html)
Quote from: ninja on February 19 2015 08:17:31 PM MST
Complete magpul lower, ready for shipping to your local gun shop (on sale today $179 - blem is used only to discount - does not affect looks or works):
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/psa-ar-15-complete-lower-magpul-ctr-black-blem.html (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/psa-ar-15-complete-lower-magpul-ctr-black-blem.html)
Just down the road from Palmetto State Armory, where the guys in town KNOW HOW to make'em -
- Columbia, South Carolina -
"We are pleased that FN America has been selected to produce the M240 family of machine guns for the U.S. Army," said Mark Cherpes, FN America President and CEO. "Since 1989, FN has produced more than two million firearms for the U.S. military at our Columbia, SC manufacturing facility. We are extremely proud of the high quality and reliable firearms we build for our service men and women and look forward to continuing this tradition."
In addition to the M240 family of machine guns, FN America also produces M4/M4A1 carbines, M16 rifles, MK19 grenade machine guns, M249 SAWs and the MK46 and MK48 machine guns."
Most accurate PSA lightweight keymod upper to complete $549 (sent direct to your home):
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/psa-16-223-wylde-1-8-fluted-ss-match-ssk15-with-bcg-and-charging-handle.html (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/psa-16-223-wylde-1-8-fluted-ss-match-ssk15-with-bcg-and-charging-handle.html)
Top it off with this 1st focal plane BDC 1 to 4 power Bushnell AR optic $180 to hit the $800 budget:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/bushnell-ar-optics-1-4x-24mm-throw-down-pcl-ar91424i.html (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/bushnell-ar-optics-1-4x-24mm-throw-down-pcl-ar91424i.html)
Personally i would not buy a blem from palemtto, i know of a couple local that were way out of spec.. that was their blem. Palmetto has horrible customer service and very slow shipping. I only buy from them when it is a killer deal or its something that cannot be really messed up.
"Building" (cough- assembling) is nice and all but with prices of Colt 6920's these days I would find it hard to justify anything else as a first AR.
My first (only) "asembly" was with a White Oak Armament upper, high-$ forged lower, basic parts kit, and Geissele trigger. My suggestion? Go big! Build ya a nice gun.
The Colt is a solid gun. But it has very entry level features for close to ten bills. Maybe I am just shopping the wrong places, but for the same money I have a match grade 18" barrel and a 10X quality scope.
Not bad-
http://www.cdnnsports.com/colt-csr-1516-5-56-16-mid-wt-bbl-free-float-1-30.html#.VOiRMGJMHFo
Quote from: Rich10 on February 21 2015 07:10:16 AM MST
Not bad-
http://www.cdnnsports.com/colt-csr-1516-5-56-16-mid-wt-bbl-free-float-1-30.html#.VOiRMGJMHFo
They are license built under the Colt name in Texas by New Bold Ideas. FWIW.
Quote from: Flankenstein on February 21 2015 08:02:31 PM MST
Quote from: Rich10 on February 21 2015 07:10:16 AM MST
Not bad-
http://www.cdnnsports.com/colt-csr-1516-5-56-16-mid-wt-bbl-free-float-1-30.html#.VOiRMGJMHFo
They are license built under the Colt name in Texas by New Bold Ideas. FWIW.
Same gun i mentioned... i own one. Great gun for the money. Only thing i changed on mine was the flash hider to a brake and added a magpul stock. Accurate and has a great trigger.
Quote from: rw on February 21 2015 08:30:54 PM MST
Quote from: Flankenstein on February 21 2015 08:02:31 PM MST
Quote from: Rich10 on February 21 2015 07:10:16 AM MST
Not bad-
http://www.cdnnsports.com/colt-csr-1516-5-56-16-mid-wt-bbl-free-float-1-30.html#.VOiRMGJMHFo
They are license built under the Colt name in Texas by New Bold Ideas. FWIW.
Same gun i mentioned... i own one. Great gun for the money. Only thing i changed on mine was the flash hider to a brake and added a magpul stock. Accurate and has a great trigger.
Not saying they are good or bad...just adding info.
I fixed that, my Ar is really an AK! :P
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Gandog56/PICT0017.jpg)
Personally, All I really care about is that it has an HBAR Barrel. Other than that the other parts don't make much difference to me.
Quote from: Rich10 on February 21 2015 07:10:16 AM MST
Not bad-
http://www.cdnnsports.com/colt-csr-1516-5-56-16-mid-wt-bbl-free-float-1-30.html#.VOiRMGJMHFo
For any guys that are new...This is NOT a Colt 6920. It is a perfectly acceptable entry level gun.
Quote from: sqlbullet on February 23 2015 07:32:14 AM MST
Quote from: Rich10 on February 21 2015 07:10:16 AM MST
Not bad-
http://www.cdnnsports.com/colt-csr-1516-5-56-16-mid-wt-bbl-free-float-1-30.html#.VOiRMGJMHFo
For any guys that are new...This is NOT a Colt 6920. It is a perfectly acceptable entry level gun.
Correct, and I'd maybe rather have it than a 6920- middy gas, ff rail, etc.
It is definitely closer to what I prefer in a working AR-15 too.
Quote from: Rich10 on February 23 2015 09:38:46 AM MST
Quote from: sqlbullet on February 23 2015 07:32:14 AM MST
Quote from: Rich10 on February 21 2015 07:10:16 AM MST
Not bad-
http://www.cdnnsports.com/colt-csr-1516-5-56-16-mid-wt-bbl-free-float-1-30.html#.VOiRMGJMHFo
For any guys that are new...This is NOT a Colt 6920. It is a perfectly acceptable entry level gun.
Correct, and I'd maybe rather have it than a 6920- middy gas, ff rail, etc.
I am very glad i bought this one over a 6920.. better trigger and everything else is closer to what i wanted.
One thing that is not published is that it has a great trigger... its not the lightest, they say around 5.5 lbs but it feels lighter than that to me. My ak's have good triggers and this is much better.. I cleaned the gun when i got it and lightly oiled it , and that is it.. it has not needed to be run wet to run like other ar i have been around.
Just buy a Daniel Defense if you want a heavy duty gun for the rest of your life.