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10mm Ammuntion => Factory 10mm ammo => Topic started by: climb14er on February 12 2015 11:02:33 AM MST

Title: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: climb14er on February 12 2015 11:02:33 AM MST
Noticed this on their site this morning.

I must be missing something never saw this configuration before.

Anyone else know about it?
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Intercooler on February 12 2015 11:10:50 AM MST
http://www.underwoodammo.com/10mm-auto-200-grain-hard-cast-flat-nose/


I will have to grab some.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: 4949shooter on February 12 2015 02:17:13 PM MST
Git some!!
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Intercooler on February 12 2015 03:20:14 PM MST
  I probably will! These don't look to have the Meplat of the Beartooth.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: 4949shooter on February 12 2015 06:40:31 PM MST
Maybe they will feed better?
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: fanninland on February 12 2015 11:19:11 PM MST
Should be an interesting comparison to the DT 200wfngc's
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Stunnerable on February 18 2015 05:25:29 AM MST
Nice anti bear round. This matted to a 6"+ barrel would be good insurance.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: mag360 on February 18 2015 11:36:54 AM MST
Ive never had a prob feeding the doubletap in my g20sf
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Intercooler on February 19 2015 03:49:57 PM MST
Got them today and a new warning label on this box:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p526x296/10443541_835215286516505_8822621165208931111_n.jpg?oh=a75830f4d8e25cf2b3c3762905e14a48&oe=55877DF7&__gda__=1431148874_9e56f2c10040cdeb3eda657db0b88788)

Smaller Meplat than the Doubletap Beartooth 200gr or Granite 200gr. Looks to be the same as the RimRock 220's:

(https://scontent-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/1904141_835198499851517_1028921332700993431_n.jpg?oh=0b00dae5d65e89677e20bd026b3fe0d3&oe=55829CA2)
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: mt10mm on February 19 2015 07:54:15 PM MST
Wonder why Kevin went with this?
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Pablo on February 19 2015 08:55:53 PM MST
 I have a box. Just because.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Intercooler on February 24 2015 05:41:22 PM MST
Hmmm... I thought these were 1200 FPS rated.

10mm Underwood 200gr Hardcast
EAA Limited Pro 4.75" 1174, 1194, 1199. Average = 1189 FPS/ 628 LBS
EAA Super Match 6" 1227, 1233, 1210. Average = 1220 FPS/ 661 LBS

Short of the flap rating by a good bit for Underwood.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Pablo on February 24 2015 05:48:01 PM MST
Quote from: Intercooler on February 24 2015 05:41:22 PM MST
Hmmm... I thought these were 1200 FPS rated.

10mm Underwood 200gr Hardcast
EAA Limited Pro 4.75" 1174, 1194, 1199. Average = 1189 FPS/ 628 LBS
EAA Super Match 6" 1227, 1233, 1210. Average = 1220 FPS/ 661 LBS

Short of the flap rating by a good bit for Underwood.

1250 FPS out of what barrel?
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Intercooler on February 24 2015 06:07:48 PM MST
That would be a G20 4.6" barrel. These would be in the 1150-1160 FPS range in that length.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Pablo on February 24 2015 06:14:05 PM MST
I see that. I would let Underwood know for sure.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: The_Shadow on February 24 2015 06:30:19 PM MST
Interesting that they are running slower? ???
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Centimeter on February 25 2015 05:56:07 PM MST
Yeah that's quite a bit off the flap for Underwood... might understand the difference if we were talking about the 220gr and the different powder (simply because of the lack of case volume) but with the smaller projectile it seems there'd be enough room to make up the difference... Unless everything is being down-loaded for the time being?? Anyone heard anything from Kevin about the powder change or velocity ratings in question?
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: macc283 on March 01 2015 08:43:05 AM MST
Load the ammo we really want underwood this isn't it.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Intercooler on March 01 2015 09:20:53 AM MST
You want Beartooth? The order quantity is huge and from the sounds of it Doubletap has the rights to those.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: 4949shooter on March 01 2015 12:55:06 PM MST
Underwood has been doing everything right. If they don't have access to Beartooth so be it.

They will do their best with what they have.

And I was skeptical of them in their early days. Right? Intercooler remembers the debates we had here about them.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Intercooler on March 01 2015 01:10:18 PM MST
Yea... Thanks for watering down the ammo  ;D
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: 4949shooter on March 01 2015 03:58:16 PM MST
Quote from: Intercooler on March 01 2015 01:10:18 PM MST
Yea... Thanks for watering down the ammo  ;D

Haha!  :P
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: macc283 on March 02 2015 06:40:43 AM MST
Well any flatpoint with a metplat of .32" would make me happy. Other companies make them like magnus bullets i think has sum in 180gr.  Beartooth cant be the only ones making these. But i guess thats why reloading your own is so cool you just make your own.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Taterhead on March 03 2015 09:33:34 PM MST
Quote from: Intercooler on March 01 2015 09:20:53 AM MST
You want Beartooth? The order quantity is huge and from the sounds of it Doubletap has the rights to those.

I'm not sure about that one. Doubletap's WFNGC is a closely similar profile, but they are not the same bullet as Beartooth, and they haven't loaded the Beartooth for at least 5 years. I communicated with Mike McNett about 6 years ago when they transitioned to insourcing casting of that bullet. He claimed that they are identical, but they aren't. I have still have a few both on hand that aren't loaded. The lube grooves are different, the crimp groove position is different, and the size of the flat point is slightly different. I've hand loaded both, and the BT is better quality.

My guess is that UW wouldn't go with Beartooth simply because they are really expensive, and BT might not be well equipped to function as a wholesale commercial supplier. Beartooth states that they are not really into volume discounting.

A Beartooth at a hair over 1200 fps is a GREAT load.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Intercooler on March 04 2015 02:30:15 PM MST
    Do you have a picture of a 200gr Beartooth? We have the Doubletap round in the pull-downs. I was always told and people coined the reference to Doubletap using that bullet.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Taterhead on March 04 2015 03:29:09 PM MST
Quote from: Intercooler on March 04 2015 02:30:15 PM MST
    Do you have a picture of a 200gr Beartooth? We have the Doubletap round in the pull-downs. I was always told and people coined the reference to Doubletap using that bullet.

I can take a pic tonight.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Taterhead on March 04 2015 10:28:16 PM MST
The Beartooth and Doubletap 200 gr WFNGCs. The BT is on the left of each pair. Note that the DT is missing its gas check. I pulled this bullet from a workup ladder that I decided that I'd gone far enough. When I pulled it, the gas check stuck in the case. Note that the crimp groove on the BT is a bit low, and the DT is a bit high. These are seated at 1.26". Of course the crimp groove is a non-issue in 10mm since we don't roll crimp.


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Taterhead on March 04 2015 10:41:19 PM MST
Just for fun, here is what happens when you shoot into water jugs with one of these loaded to a bit over 1200 fps. The first 3 jugs were wasted. Note how far the 1st one got tossed. You can also see how there was a footprint of the water jugs scoured into the space where the jugs were sitting. This is easily the most impressive display I've seen with any 10mm ammo. The bullet continued through SEVEN full jugs before drifting right and exiting the back right corner of the 7th and going into low-earth orbit. I have meant to repeat this test for a few years, and stack jugs to the side. I want to see just how many this will penetrate. I haven't captured one yet.

FWIW, I spent a day doing side-by-side testing of the 200 XTP and WFNGC. Both loaded to a bit over 1200 fps. I shot at all kinds of unscientific media. There was such a huge difference in carnage brought by the WFNGC vs. the XTP. That blunt profile is a hammer.



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Intercooler on March 05 2015 03:04:41 AM MST
PBR 200gr Beartooth
(http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/IMG_0095_zps98f4efd6.jpg)
Doubletap 200gr... I guess I should change the sheet to their own bullet?
(http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/IMG_0100_zpscc6435ce.jpg)
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Taterhead on March 05 2015 10:03:26 AM MST
The easiest way tell them apart is that the BT has 2 lube grooves, and the DT has one. I haven't purchased DT components for a few years so I dont know if they've changed. In fact, I don't see the component available on the DT site at this point. Looking at the photo loaded ammo on the DT site, it shows the DT bullets that I'm familiar with. You can tell because you can see the exposed crimp groove above the case mouth. With the Beartooth, it is not exposed when seated in a10mm case - even when seated long like in my photo below.


Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Taterhead on March 05 2015 10:10:52 AM MST
Quote from: Intercooler on March 04 2015 02:30:15 PM MST
    Do you have a picture of a 200gr Beartooth? We have the Doubletap round in the pull-downs. I was always told and people coined the reference to Doubletap using that bullet.

Way back, DT did load BTs bullet, and I think I remember correctly that they used the name "Beartooth" on the box at the time.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Intercooler on March 05 2015 02:53:21 PM MST
  I will change the sheet to Doubletap bullet since that seems what is there now.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Taterhead on March 05 2015 03:23:05 PM MST
I'm admittedly out of the loop a bit with respect to some of the documentation that is being done... to what sheet are you referring, if I may ask?
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Intercooler on March 05 2015 03:25:00 PM MST
This one I have been working on for years  :o


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak5OC6bPsjO8dEh6eGZ3N3hpUU13SXM5cm9pZy16T0E&usp=drive_web#gid=4
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Taterhead on March 05 2015 05:30:54 PM MST
Quote from: Intercooler on March 05 2015 03:25:00 PM MST
This one I have been working on for years  :o


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak5OC6bPsjO8dEh6eGZ3N3hpUU13SXM5cm9pZy16T0E&usp=drive_web#gid=4


Nice. You're a man after my own heart. As a CPA and data guy, I can appreciate collecting and collecting data in a useful format.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: mt10mm on May 20 2015 07:29:44 PM MDT
Any reports of these yet? Was thinking of trying them.  Looks like velocity is down.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Intercooler on May 21 2015 02:55:48 PM MDT
Slightly when I tested those. Things might have changed by now though.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: mt10mm on May 21 2015 05:37:16 PM MDT
I am going to get a few boxes to try out
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Torro on June 02 2015 04:06:34 PM MDT
Hi Everyone,  1st Post. Been on here for a while digesting as much as I can.   Shot a box of this 200 grain hard cast this weekend in my G-20SF with stock length KKM barrel, #22lb RSA.
Chrono'd 15 shots.   Had 1170fps low,  1247fps High,  and  1205fps Ave. Only malfunctions was two times the slide did not completely go into battery while my wife was shooting weak handed. Just tapped the slide and good to go. No FTF's. Probably will be our woods carry round. . Thanks, T
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Intercooler on June 02 2015 04:30:42 PM MDT
Very similar to what I saw. It doesn't look like these will hit the 1250 FPS they put on the flap.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: 4949shooter on June 02 2015 07:42:40 PM MDT
Quote from: Torro on June 02 2015 04:06:34 PM MDT
Hi Everyone,  1st Post. Been on here for a while digesting as much as I can.   Shot a box of this 200 grain hard cast this weekend in my G-20SF with stock length KKM barrel, #22lb RSA.
Chrono'd 15 shots.   Had 1170fps low,  1247fps High,  and  1205fps Ave. Only malfunctions was two times the slide did not completely go into battery while my wife was shooting weak handed. Just tapped the slide and good to go. No FTF's. Probably will be our woods carry round. . Thanks, T

That's a pretty big spread.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Intercooler on June 03 2015 06:28:31 AM MDT
It could be unlocking.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: 4949shooter on June 03 2015 01:59:02 PM MDT
Could be yes.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: Torro on June 03 2015 03:06:01 PM MDT
Quote from: Intercooler on June 03 2015 06:28:31 AM MDT
It could be unlocking.
I think you are saying the slide is unlocking to fast?  Maybe a heavier Recoil spring might lower the extreme spread? I am using a 22#ISMI and I read that some folks claim they are rated a little low. Otherwise the accuracy was acceptable, and I am OK with a 200HC at 1200fps. Thanks for your help! T
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: 4949shooter on June 04 2015 01:29:01 PM MDT
You might want to try a 22 or 24 pound RSA.

You can get them from Glockstore or Glockmeister.
Title: Re: Underwood 200gr 10mm Hard Cast
Post by: The_Shadow on June 04 2015 03:33:09 PM MDT
In my G-20SF I use a Non Captive RSA from Wolff, the reason being is it applies more pressure at lock up... ::)

Glock 20SF spring test Wolff Gun Springs 22lb RSA installed
It takes 6lb 4oz to start the slide to move from the locked position
Full retraction at 22lb 9oz at lock open
22-Slightly over a pound difference 1lb 1oz to start the slide to move from the locked position
22-Slightly over a 2 pound difference 2lb 9oz at lock open over factory

Glock 20SF spring test Wolff Gun Springs 24lb RSA installed
It takes 7lb 6oz to start the slide to move from the locked position
Full retraction at 24lb 1oz at lock open
24-Slightly over a pound difference 2lb 3oz to start the slide to move from the locked position
24-Slightly over a 6 pound difference 6lb 1oz at lock open over factory

Glock 20Sf Factory spring test
It takes 5lb 3oz to start the slide to move from the locked position
Full retraction at 18lb 0oz at lock open