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10mm Ammuntion => Factory 10mm Ammo pull-downs => Topic started by: The_Shadow on January 31 2015 07:03:40 PM MST

Title: LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (1/31/15) Pull-Down
Post by: The_Shadow on January 31 2015 07:03:40 PM MST
Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (Garrett 1/31/15)
Ballistics Information: 10mm Auto
Muzzle Velocity: 1040 fps (these would typically run 1200 to 1230 fps)
Muzzle Energy: 432 ft. lbs .
Brass Make/Headstamp: Star Line – Brass (New)
Bullet Make/Weight/Construction/Info; Length 0.5760"- 0.5785"- 0.5770"
Dia. 0.4000": Plated 180 FMJ  (Concave base)
MEPLAT 0.2725"
Actual weight 180.0 / 180.4 / 179.8 grains   Crimp squeezed bullet to 0.3990"
C.O.A.L.: 1.2530" / 1.2565" / 1.2570"
Primer: Large Pistol Brass color
Case: Diameter 0.4215"-0.4215" -0.4215"  Crimp Diameter 0.4215" 0.4220" 0.4215"
(tight crimps) Case Length 0.9870" / 0.9875" / 0.9860"
Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight: Power Pistol 8.0-8.0-8.0 grains
Cartridge weights before pull-down 266.0 / 266.0 / 265.4 grains

Garrett suffered a case Blowout in his gun
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t34.0-12/10961748_10203463065723383_292223100_n.jpg?oh=2c1b0d1b66ce4a0727969c9f56013c10&oe=54CFE737&__gda__=1422896771_29486ec225cfab2cc9cbddcedb6da7e2)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t34.0-12/10728957_10203463095124118_577982624_n.jpg?oh=3ddd6bff3dccbd80d7d5fad7c8937c0e&oe=54D0A71A&__gda__=1422897454_9bc72dcbd7cac8aff5cd6c594260282e)

(https://s20.postimg.cc/65mww0e31/IMG_0421_zps5661588c.jpg)

(https://s20.postimg.cc/x3gtxsgql/IMG_0422_zpsb83644b1.jpg)

(https://s20.postimg.cc/65mww2bj1/IMG_0423_zps5d8d98ae.jpg)

(https://s20.postimg.cc/x3gtxt3vx/IMG_0424_zpsa828fefa.jpg)

(https://s20.postimg.cc/qprquk6pp/IMG_0425_zpsebe2a4c7.jpg)

(https://s20.postimg.cc/h5847op3h/IMG_0426_zps755bc97c.jpg)

(https://s20.postimg.cc/6v5p8g6xp/IMG_0427_zpsc15966d4.jpg)

(https://s20.postimg.cc/6ieb29wdp/IMG_0428_zps137db8f2.jpg)

(https://s20.postimg.cc/vbnv2xn3x/IMG_0429_zps23388453.jpg)
Title: Re: Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (1/31/15) Pull-Down
Post by: Intercooler on January 31 2015 07:43:09 PM MST
New LAX with what looks like correct loads and it blew out? What do you think caused it?
Title: Re: Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (1/31/15) Pull-Down
Post by: The_Shadow on January 31 2015 08:22:07 PM MST
It has to be an over charge but is it just a double charge or was it a powder bridge event that dropped into the suspect cartridge I can only speculate...But today's modern loading machines can be used with what they call a Powder COP or check die, that should lock things up if there is an out of tolerance situation...

These three were as good as it gets as far as quality and precision goes.

I hope the guy gets his gun repaired and make him a happy customer...glad he wasn't hurt.
Title: Re: Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (1/31/15) Pull-Down
Post by: cwall64 on January 31 2015 10:26:00 PM MST
I just bought a 250 count of those - kind of scared to use them now!
Title: Re: Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (1/31/15) Pull-Down
Post by: The_Shadow on January 31 2015 10:39:19 PM MST
cwall64, If I had to base the quality of the ammo based on these 3 cartridges, I would have to give LAX an A+ as you can see the powder charges are exact, the COAL were where they should be, they used quality components and Star Line Brass to boot.  This may have been a freak overcharge that got missed by the loading machine or process.

However their Remanufactured did show some issues with the used brass and that is also posted here in the pull-downs.

My advice would be to inspect all of the cartridges, looking for any bullets being seated too deeply, snagged or crushed casings.  If you had a good scale you could measure their individual cartridge weights looking for any that show a drastic difference... ::)
Title: Re: Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (1/31/15) Pull-Down
Post by: Intercooler on February 01 2015 02:18:22 AM MST
  I haven't tested or got my hands on the new brass LAX. It's always out of stock! The 8.0gr's is .4gr's more than was found in the reloaded LAX. Maybe they use slightly more Power Pistol in the new brass version?

   Can someone send some to me for Chronograph testing? These events get me a little shaken too, but I always thought one day it more than likely will happen to me if I shoot enough.
Title: Re: Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (1/31/15) Pull-Down
Post by: 4949shooter on February 01 2015 04:17:32 AM MST
Wow this is crazy.
Title: Re: Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (1/31/15) Pull-Down
Post by: Intercooler on February 01 2015 05:00:17 AM MST
   I'm still trying to find the MFG that hasn't had a single issue. If I was a gambling man, it's best to go all in on  that will never happen  :o
Title: Re: Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (1/31/15) Pull-Down
Post by: Intercooler on February 01 2015 07:26:54 AM MST
  I pulled out my bulk FMJ rounds and weighed them all.

My target weight ended up being 265grn's total +/- 4grn's. Anything 270+ was pulled out.

   I found 0 out of range in the  in the Georgia Arms, American Quality Ammo and Precision One. I had 9 out of the LAX reloads that were 270-271. I'm sending them to The Shadow to see if anything is there. Out of the 9, I found 5 of them were Federal (FC) headstamp. Do they use a heavier brass? The other 4 were split between Starline and Midway brass.
Title: Re: Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (1/31/15) Pull-Down
Post by: cwall64 on February 01 2015 07:59:02 AM MST
Quote from: Intercooler on February 01 2015 07:26:54 AM MST
  I pulled out my bulk FMJ rounds and weighed them all.

My target weight ended up being 265grn's total +/- 4grn's. Anything 270+ was pulled out.

   I found 0 out of range in the  in the Georgia Arms, American Quality Ammo and Precision One. I had 9 out of the LAX reloads that were 270-271. I'm sending them to The Shadow to see if anything is there. Out of the 9, I found 5 of them were Federal (FC) headstamp. Do they use a heavier brass? The other 4 were split between Starline and Midway brass.

I like this idea, I think I'll do the same.
Title: Re: Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (1/31/15) Pull-Down
Post by: sean on February 01 2015 09:29:47 AM MST
Good luck guys on finding out what happened. .I like the Idea of the check die shadow talked about..I have never worked with power pistol so dont even know what is considered a nuke load of it..you don't see this even in the hottest ammo maker. .be safe guys
Title: Re: Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (1/31/15) Pull-Down
Post by: The_Shadow on February 01 2015 10:08:09 AM MST
The Power Pistol at 8.0 grains is a safe load and below some of the published Alliant data from 2006.  I have shot 8.0 and 8.2 using 200 grain XTP's.

Another thought that crossed my mind is these plated bullets, this being a new gun, did the previous shots shave any of the plating at the forcing cone and build up a ring of bullet plating, if this happened, the next cartridge could be jammed into that build up of material could lead to a pressure event as well.  Some have speculated that over crimping can also allow a cartridge that is tapered such to be jammed into freebore/forcing cone area to create a jammed bullet, but that would also need a lot of extractor hook wear or stretch to let a cartridge get that deep or the cartridge case would need to be too long.

Intercooler, those PPU brass that had the setback issues, were from LAX the ones I did an annealing of the cases to get them to hold the bullets.  I sent 3 of them back to you, two were annealed and one reconditioned without being annealed.
I evened out the powder charges on those as well.  I had been waiting for you to run those over the chrono to see how they performed being reconditioned then reloaded...

that pull-down is here;
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo-pull-downs/lax-180gr-fmj-plated-(ic-51714)-pull-down/
Title: Re: Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (1/31/15) Pull-Down
Post by: The_Shadow on February 01 2015 03:29:42 PM MST
I managed to get to the range today and tested the 3 rounds you sent after I reloaded them  The LAX 180 gr over 8.0 grains of Power Pistol from the Glock 3.78" factory barrel in my Glock 29 using a 21lb spring set.  1040 fps

They would be higher numbers from the longer barrels...
Title: Re: Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (1/31/15) Pull-Down
Post by: cwall64 on February 01 2015 03:38:30 PM MST
Just finished weighing all of them and looks good, all between 264.8 and 270.2 with the majority falling in the 265.8 to 266.2 range.  I set the 6 aside that were 270.0 to 270.2...
Title: Re: Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (1/31/15) Pull-Down
Post by: The_Shadow on February 01 2015 06:12:06 PM MST
Yea I just spoke with Intercooler even at 270 grains that's only 4 grains above the average, so they may still be OK.
As there can be 2.0 grains difference in bullets, some brass can vary as well...
But if you handload you can pull-them down and see what's inside.
Title: Re: Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (1/31/15) Pull-Down
Post by: cwall64 on February 01 2015 06:35:53 PM MST
Unfortunately it has been about 25 years since I hand loaded, sure my equipment is obsolete, and I only had dies for rifle cartridges and 44 mag.  I have been thinking about getting into it again if I keep shooting 10mms like I have been...
Title: Re: Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (1/31/15) Pull-Down
Post by: The_Shadow on February 01 2015 09:16:28 PM MST
You will fall right back into it, I still do most of my loading with a RCBS JR. press, if you get the dies I would suggest a good set of carbide dies, I use the RCBS carbide dies for 10mm that I purchased before 40S&W came out...

The think with these straight cases and bullets with no cannelure, is you need to seat the bullets without any crimp being applied and then taper crimp in separate step...if you decide to start I can talk you through the steps.
Title: Re: Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (1/31/15) Pull-Down
Post by: Intercooler on February 04 2015 04:57:08 PM MST
I ran one of the PPU brass LAX rounds today out of the 6" Super Match.

1173 FPS/ 550 LBS and was just fine.
Title: Re: Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (1/31/15) Pull-Down
Post by: cwall64 on February 04 2015 05:46:32 PM MST
Funny thing, now that you guys have me getting back into reloading, I hate to take the loads with the Starline brass to the indoor range I go to (they do not like you picking up the brass, but anything that fell on the table or around my feet I grabbed)!  I really wanted to try out the "LAX Ammunition Factory New 10mm 180Gr." that I weighed the other day...  I just took some old UMC stuff and a little Underwood to test out my heavier RSAs in the G20 and G29.  I guess I have to make a trip to the ranch this weekend and shoot some of the LAX and pickup the brass!
Title: Re: Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (1/31/15) Pull-Down
Post by: tommac919 on February 05 2015 08:50:37 AM MST
Quote from: cwall64 on February 04 2015 05:46:32 PM MST
snip.. I hate to take the loads with the Starline brass to the indoor range I go to (they do not like you picking up the brass, but anything that fell on the table or around my feet I grabbed)!  snip..

Not the best way to go, but at the indoor range I use a hand mounted case catcher by Graco.  Once you get it adjusted for your gun, It works fairly well , catches about 85-90% of the brass ( some hit the frame and fall straight down on bench ).  At least I don't lose all my starline brass.

ps; I use older brass (and  range picked brass) reloaded at least a few times  for the indoor range too


see ;  http://www.personalarmament.com/2010/05/graco-models-pistol-brass-catcher-review.html