Am I crazy? Most people are swaying me away from the Witness P Compact in 10mm, and steering me more towards the Glock 29, but I'm just not "feeling" the Glock. I keep coming back to this gun, and I'm really wanting to like it, but am having serious reservations due to all the problems I'm reading about, especially with the compact version... which happens to be the only version I'm considering.
Is there anything I can do to make this little guy more reliable? Has Tanfoglio made any improvements to this model? Are there any tips or mods I should consider to make it reliable with a wide range of ammo options? The cost of the gun itself is low enough that I wouldn't mind investing a few more dollars... if it'll result in a very reliable firearm. Suggestions?
http://eaacorp.com/portfolio-item/witness-polymer-p-compact/
12+1... huh. What's the big concern? It will handle 10mm rounds fine. The only issue I can see is if the magazines create issues. Any idea what they are giving with them these days? Can you contact EAA to find out exactly?
I found this review:
I have had this handgun since 2002 and have shot many rounds through it. Had problems at first and had to send it back to EAA in FL. Got it fixed and it has worked great since. The previous post talked about it jamming. The return spring is very stiff, so you must really strong arm the gun, so it will cycle properly. Everyone who shoots it jams it, becuase they hold it wimpy or loosely. When I hold it and really stiff arm it, the gun functions flawlessly. It is my concealed carry gun. I bought a fifteen round extended magazine from EAA, which is supper nice. Love the gun, but you need to learn how it shoots.
By Maxamo from Morgan, UT
I can echo Maxamo's comments. Every novice shooter I have handed my witness to experienced jams. They were always due to loose gun hold. I never experience them as I hold the gun like a vice mounted to concrete.
So the main problem is limp-wristing? What about faulty magazines, and weak or twisted recoil springs?
I'm pretty sure most of the issues can be rectified if you run into them. Have you been over to Brian Enos forums to get a take?
How about this one? This is the K10 mag setup you want with the compact upper slide:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=465481194
Here is a new one with 14 round K10 magazine:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=465616317
I thought those were considered their "carry" version, not their compact model?
I've tried to contact EAA twice but have been a little too late reaching them. They close at 3:30 EST... bankers hours... must be nice.
I really think you might want to consider the P-Carry. I know several people here have purchased one and seem to like it. It is 1 oz. heavier and not much bigger in any dimension. As a matter of fact the founder of this board bought one!
http://10mm-firearms.com/10mm-semi-auto-handguns/another-witness-to-add-to-my-10mm-collection/msg36490/#msg36490
You get the better Cone barrel in that piece and 14+1 employing the K10. From there you can order Henning's 3.8" cone-fit guide rod:
http://henningshop.com/products/tanfoglio-conefit-guide-rod-h081
It might be a little long for the 3.6". Henning might be able to cut it down for you or DIY. Install a flat bottom firing pin retaining block and 49920 20lb recoil spring from here:
http://www.gunsprings.com/index.cfm?page=items&cID=1&mID=19#844
Done!
I have been digging into this a little more. It seems the old 10/12 rounders are discontinued (stupid EAA's site isn't updated). You should be good to go with anything stating 14+1 (K10 newer version). Good luck in which ever route you go and give us a report!
One more report with some HEAVY STUFF to ease your mind. 8)
http://tanfoglioforum.com/index.php?topic=176.0
Quote from: Intercooler on January 28 2015 05:19:15 PM MST
I really think you might want to consider the P-Carry. I know several people here have purchased one and seem to like it. It is 1 oz. heavier and not much bigger in any dimension. As a matter of fact the founder of this board bought one!
http://10mm-firearms.com/10mm-semi-auto-handguns/another-witness-to-add-to-my-10mm-collection/msg36490/#msg36490
You get the better Cone barrel in that piece and 14+1 employing the K10. From there you can order Henning's 3.8" cone-fit guide rod:
http://henningshop.com/products/tanfoglio-conefit-guide-rod-h081
It might be a little long for the 3.6". Henning might be able to cut it down for you or DIY. Install a flat bottom firing pin retaining block and 49920 20lb recoil spring from here:
http://www.gunsprings.com/index.cfm?page=items&cID=1&mID=19#844
Done!
Thanks for the heads up... and the much research you've done on this. Is there any reason those mods you suggest cannot be done to the smaller gun? Don't they have the same size barrels?
Henning got back to me saying the dual spring guns won't work with the guide rod. However... I think it just needs cut down and I'm waiting to hear back. From what I gathered on the net others are doing that.
I have the p carry and the Henning guide won't fit without being cut down, I also switched it to a single recoil sping that is much heavier. I aslo did the flat bottom fps.
Here is the bottom line of all this.
If you "feel" the Witness, get it. But get it knowing that it doesn't have a 100% track record. Some guys get guns that run for them. Some guys tinker and get them to run, and some guys never get their Witness Compact to run well.
The Glock 29 on the other hand has a great track record. Mine is 100%. Lots of guys have never had any issues. In fact, I would be a bit surprised if you had a glock 29 that didn't run with most ammo just fine. You might have the occasional issue with a heavy Underwood load.
I have nothing against the Witness line. In fact, I own a full-size and a Match. And probably will get a compact or P carry someday. But I will buy it expecting to have to tinker a bit.
Henning is leaning towards making the Cone rod to fit them. Now everyone call up and ask for it ;D
Well I managed to speak with a CS agent over at EAA. She denied that they had problems with the compact version... of course. But also added that if I had any problems with one they would fix it.
They should all be 14 rounders now. Did you throw that one on her too? If they are... good to go!
I've had a P Compact 12 round for a year now. It's had feed issues since day one. I've tried many different ammos and a trip back to EAA and it's still not a reliable shooter. EAA replaced the barrel and a new magazine and it helped but still has feed issues. The trip back to EAA and back to me was at my expense. And no, I don't limp wrist when shooting it. I also have a Stock 1 that is a fine pistol, both are in 10mm. I'm only speaking about my P Compact!
Bud's has the best price on it and you can read a couple reviews there:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/200165
I would ask whatever buyer you go with to send you a picture of the actual gun you are buying. If it has the flat side, square slide, you are good to go.
Quote from: Reverendpdp on February 03 2015 02:45:10 PM MST
Well I managed to speak with a CS agent over at EAA. She denied that they had problems with the compact version... of course. But also added that if I had any problems with one they would fix it.
If you have problems you can look forward to paying for the shipping to and from. I love these guns but their customer service isn't very spectacular.
I have the steel compact, the polymer compact and the P carry. The P carry has become my favorite carry gun. The steel compact has always had feed issues. The polymer compact is OK but I never liked the way it felt in my hand. The P carry has the famous feel of the full size witness and mag capacity in a lightweight shorter barrel format. I love it. Still trying to find a holster for it. Down here in Florida it's always so hot, I have to wear t-shirts so I end up carrying my Ruger LCP or Taurus TCP most days.
My P carry is going back to eaa tomorrow. Shooting 3-4 inches low ant 15 yds. I have about 300 rds throught it now. Most hot loads. I have had feed issues. I tried the sprinco guiderod with the wolff calibration kit. I think the sprinco made it studder or short stroke. I am pretty sure I am not limp wristing. I put the stock guide rod back in and shot 18 20 and 22 lb springs with lots of ftf. The springs are just slightly longer than the recoil rod. They have been over stressed and compressed. I talked to Alan at sprinco, and he feels that the internal spring channel has been changed some from the factory and I am .almost getting a solid sprig stack.... Alan is returning the guide rod and was trying figure out what changed so he can rework his product.
If the gun still had function issues when if comes back, it will probably be up for sale. I don't want to tinker or tweak. I want a reliable gun. And yes I am paying shipping both ways. Customer service was pleasant speaking but suggested I buy a $95 adjustable sight. Or send it back to make sure the barrel was set properly.
Quote from: Intercooler on January 29 2015 12:13:37 PM MST
Henning is leaning towards making the Cone rod to fit them. Now everyone call up and ask for it ;D
Does anyone else make an aftermarket guide rod for the Witness compact, what about a heavier recoil spring? Reading all the stories of cracked slides has made me nervous now. Even though I've refrained from shooting the really hot ammo out of my witness compact a little insurance would be nice to have. Maybe a recoil buffer would help? I really like this little gun and I'd like to shoot for many years.
I doubt this would be a recommended route but I couldn't find a heavier one so I bought one for a full size and trimmed it down until it cycled properly. (Quite heavy)
I see EAA has reduced the price of their standard length conversion kits with wonderfinish to $255 again. They're all over the place with their pricing lately ranging from $255-$455. I can buy a completely new gun at $455, but at $255 it's not bad. This is the route I'd prefer to take allowing me to switch between standard and compact slides. Here's a link to the conversion kit in case anyone else is interested.
http://eaacorp.com/gun_accessories/index.php/parts/tanfolio/witness/conversion-kit/standard-conversion-kit/10mm-conversion-kit-standard-wonder-300039.html
Rounded slide and Wonder Finish... risky combo!
I hate the price of EAA's conversions now. It's about 70% of just buying the complete pistol.