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10mm Ammuntion => Factory 10mm ammo => Topic started by: Raggedyman on January 15 2015 09:04:01 AM MST

Title: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: Raggedyman on January 15 2015 09:04:01 AM MST
I have a Level IIA body armor panel that was donated by a member on Arfcom for testing. The first shot will be 9mm Magsafe because that's what it was donated for. I should be able to shoot it several times, though. I plan to shoot it with the Lehigh extreme penetrator. Is there anything else you'd like to see tested?
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: Intercooler on January 15 2015 09:11:23 AM MST
  An arrow and a Mosin surplus round.
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: Rich10 on January 15 2015 09:19:44 AM MST
What is the panel made of (AR500, ceramic, soft, etc...)?
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: Raggedyman on January 15 2015 09:42:20 AM MST
Quote from: Intercooler on January 15 2015 09:11:23 AM MST
  An arrow and a Mosin surplus round.

Maybe an arrow. Pretty sure any rifle round will zip through like it wasn't there.
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: Raggedyman on January 15 2015 09:42:57 AM MST
Quote from: Rich10 on January 15 2015 09:19:44 AM MST
What is the panel made of (AR500, ceramic, soft, etc...)?

Derp. Sorry. Thought I said but I didn't. I edited the OP. It's Level IIA.
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: Dave84 on January 15 2015 11:50:51 AM MST
Interesting. Maybe the uw 220 grain hard cast and the 155 grain xtp.
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: pacapcop on January 15 2015 12:35:46 PM MST
Underwood 200 fmj.
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: Centimeter on January 15 2015 04:27:34 PM MST
Can I ask what kind of backdrop you're going to have behind it? Would you consider putting a slab of ballistic gel behind it to see what kind of effect the vest has on penetration (for rounds that do manage to penetrate it) or possibly a big piece of modeling clay behind it so we can get a measurement of back-face deformation for rounds that don't? I think that would be pretty rad, if you're able to. Otherwise: I'd like to see what it would do against a heavier hollow point, say a 200gr XTP, or perhaps a speedy light-weight hollow point, like the 155gr XTP Dave84 mentioned.
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: The_Shadow on January 15 2015 05:02:42 PM MST
Interesting, many of the test I have seen use a gel torso or similar as an absorber and back stop to the armor panel like it would be worn.  if they are placed against a hard backing it may affect the performance.

Hit with what you got even those old 44 mags!   ;D
Looking forward to the results!
Best regards!
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: mag360 on January 16 2015 12:18:03 AM MST
Velocity defeats armor but since most folks carry hollow points it would be cool to see if a 180gr underwood xtp will go through.  I think a 155gr tmj would.
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: Raggedyman on January 16 2015 10:56:31 AM MST
Quote from: Centimeter on January 15 2015 04:27:34 PM MST
Can I ask what kind of backdrop you're going to have behind it? Would you consider putting a slab of ballistic gel behind it to see what kind of effect the vest has on penetration (for rounds that do manage to penetrate it) or possibly a big piece of modeling clay behind it so we can get a measurement of back-face deformation for rounds that don't? I think that would be pretty rad, if you're able to. Otherwise: I'd like to see what it would do against a heavier hollow point, say a 200gr XTP, or perhaps a speedy light-weight hollow point, like the 155gr XTP Dave84 mentioned.

I'll use modeling clay since that is the standard. I expect it to stop most rounds but the back face deformation is important because that can still cause substantial injury.
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: 4949shooter on January 16 2015 03:37:32 PM MST
Guys, the vests aren't designed to stop pointed objects like knives and arrows.

It would be interesting to see though. I am sure it will slow it down at the very least.
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: Intercooler on January 16 2015 03:56:46 PM MST
  I always heard a simple arrow will defeat one. Kind of nuts and I would love to see it!
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: 4949shooter on January 16 2015 04:23:05 PM MST
Yep would be cool to see.

We won't bother giving them to deer during bow and arrow season.  :P
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: Intercooler on January 16 2015 05:17:37 PM MST
Spoiler  ;D

Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: Raggedyman on January 16 2015 06:26:05 PM MST
Teaser:

Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: Geeman on January 16 2015 07:07:35 PM MST
Something all copper like 155g Barnes TAC-XP pushed fairly hard.

Greg
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: Dave84 on January 16 2015 07:57:17 PM MST
Daaaaang! More impressive than I thought it'd be.
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: Intercooler on January 17 2015 04:13:46 AM MST
  So it went all the way through. Interesting and... will the Gov say anything about it?
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: 4949shooter on January 17 2015 04:25:39 AM MST
Quote from: Intercooler on January 17 2015 04:13:46 AM MST
  So it went all the way through. Interesting and... will the Gov say anything about it?

Well if they said something about Black talon I would venture an educated guess that we should buy this stuff up while we can.
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: Intercooler on January 17 2015 04:34:23 AM MST
  Wasn't that an issue with a 5.7 round? I'm not too up on all the individual cases, but if these rounds are defeating body armor can the ATF outlaw them?
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: 4949shooter on January 17 2015 04:46:09 AM MST
They certainly can be banned.

I remember when the Black talons came out. They weren't outlawed, but Winchester bowed to the pressure from outside sources (I believe .gov, etc) and pulled them from the market. Winchester later removed the back coating and reintroduced them as the law enforcement only Ranger round, but I think the writing was on the wall.
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: Geeman on January 17 2015 05:11:19 AM MST
Guys, its a IIA vest made to stop 9mm.  I think anything that doesn't mushroom will go through at 10mm velocity.  It would take a IIIA of a III to stand up to FMJ 10mm.

It sure didn't seem to take much off that round.  Man those milk jugs and clay paid the ultimate price!

Greg
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: 4949shooter on January 17 2015 08:56:14 AM MST
Yes, I confused it with the arrow video. From the looks of it though, it still might penetrate a level III.
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: Dave84 on January 17 2015 11:39:44 AM MST
IIIA anyway, doubt it could get level III. That's the one with rifle plates.
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: DeltaSteve on January 18 2015 09:14:51 AM MST
.500 Linebaugh    ;D
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: Centimeter on January 19 2015 05:18:02 PM MST
Good lord, that was pretty dang impressive... Extreme penetrator is an understatment it would seem :o I'm guessing the relatively light weight of the bullet, coupled with a high velocity, would tend to penetrate all but the most robust armor systems. Even though it's a IIA vest I would have expected it to put at least a little damper on the bullet but that hole in the clay clearly showed that the vest did just short of nothing to slow that thing down. Thank you for doing this; it certainly sheds some light on the potential lethality of the Lehigh round! Can't wait to see what kind of effect it has on some goold ol' hollow points with cranked-up velocities! Will it hold up??
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: rw on January 19 2015 06:20:50 PM MST
Quote from: Intercooler on January 17 2015 04:34:23 AM MST
  Wasn't that an issue with a 5.7 round? I'm not too up on all the individual cases, but if these rounds are defeating body armor can the ATF outlaw them?
Heres a video of tim from the military arms channel  showing a couple of 5.7 rounds vs soft armor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmhmtJvLZQU
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: Intercooler on January 22 2015 06:20:21 PM MST
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: Dave84 on January 22 2015 06:43:29 PM MST
Surprised it failed. That xtreme penetrator is XTREME then. Good stuff!
Title: Re: What ammo do you want to see tested against body armor?
Post by: Ramjet on February 12 2015 04:56:54 PM MST
Quote from: rw on January 19 2015 06:20:50 PM MST
Quote from: Intercooler on January 17 2015 04:34:23 AM MST
  Wasn't that an issue with a 5.7 round? I'm not too up on all the individual cases, but if these rounds are defeating body armor can the ATF outlaw them?
Heres a video of tim from the military arms channel  showing a couple of 5.7 rounds vs soft armor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmhmtJvLZQU

Interesting video thanks for sharing that 22 mag is impressive.