Mike McNett sends some Christmas wishes from FaceBook...
I grabbed a few 10mm's and took this picture for our 10mm fans out there! Merry Christmas from Doubletap! www.doubletap.net
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10801932_759079550836732_3776383730073646649_n.jpg?oh=34c7796ab78bdc8fedaf053754d3287d&oe=55342458&__gda__=1426102505_abbf33567b7f14570af43945bcc307d9)
Mike, Merry Christmas to you and yours, thanks for the work you have done to keep our favorite cartridge alive-N-kickin'.
Santa... Ive been very good... bring me all of them !!!
Has he ever addressed the fact that he is lying about velocity?
Quote from: Raggedyman on January 05 2015 09:25:56 AM MST
Has he ever addressed the fact that he is lying about velocity?
Just let it go
Bullet : 200gr Wide Flat Nose Gas Check Hardcast
Ballistics : 1300fps/ 750 ft./lbs. - Glock 20
He's not lying, he just chrono'd them with the elusive 24 inch Glock barrel. :))
Quote from: wadcutter on January 12 2015 09:08:17 AM MST
Quote from: Raggedyman on January 05 2015 09:25:56 AM MST
Has he ever addressed the fact that he is lying about velocity?
Just let it go
Why? He is still selling ammunition that does not come even close to claims. Why should we not discuss this fact?
The rumors prompted me to make my Chronograph purchase when I started out. It didn't take long to find my first box that come up short testing them :o
I don't think Doubletap makes bad ammo at all. My take is at one point in time it probably did meet the ratings. I'm pretty sure when he went under the SAAMI umbrella that changed... and the box ratings never did. Unfortunately I think it caught up to him by people testing it. It would have been easy enough to get the numbers and change the box to meet it. That only recently occured (we are up to 5" now).
I'm sure he has some customers that will always stick with him like all makers do. The way he can get some of the share he has for sure lost back is to: 1. Admit what everyone else has found and appologize. 2. Retest everything and make real world claims with what the masses will get (if everyone else can do it... can't cut him slack). 3. Drop the prices to match the competition (Underwood, PBR, Littlestone). That's if he wants to gain some market share back. Just my .002 though.
Quote from: Intercooler on January 14 2015 04:45:47 PM MST
The rumors prompted me to make my Chronograph purchase when I started out. It didn't take long to find my first box that come up short testing them :o
I don't think Doubletap makes bad ammo at all. My take is at one point in time it probably did meet the ratings. I'm pretty sure when he went under the SAAMI umbrella that changed... and the box ratings never did. Unfortunately I think it caught up to him by people testing it. It would have been easy enough to get the numbers and change the box to meet it. That only recently occured (we are up to 5" now).
I'm sure he has some customers that will always stick with him like all makers do. The way he can get some of the share he has for sure lost back is to: 1. Admit what everyone else has found and appologize. 2. Retest everything and make real world claims with what the masses will get (if everyone else can do it... can't cut him slack). 3. Drop the prices to match the competition (Underwood, PBR, Littlestone). That's if he wants to gain some market share back. Just my .002 though.
Answer: 1.
2.
3.
4.
All of the Above
Honestly I find we as a society forgive pretty well and can get past things with a simple and honest apology. It just doesn't seem that hard.
Yes no doubt.
Society may not forget, but it will forgive.
The Shadow is pretty good friends with him I think. I wonder if he could get or has a feel? On the Glock board McNett has a section and has been MIA for a long long time. If it were me, I think I would want to come out of hiding.
I think people forget, or weren't aware of the fact that McNett did a lot to keep the 10mm going in the dark days of near extinction.
If Eric didn't archive his old posts, they should still be viewable on Glocktalk on the 10 Ring forum.
Does the new stuff have accurate claims on the box?
Quote from: Raggedyman on January 14 2015 09:04:00 PM MST
Does the new stuff have accurate claims on the box?
Intercooler could answer that question best. I do know that he is now claiming the velocities from longer barrels now, so I believe he is making an attempt.
Also, it is my understanding that with all the competition form Underwood he is bumping his velocities up a bit. He is still expensive though, but if you need a specialized load that no one else has..
I have had a few in different calibers meet or exceed the rating. Are we just talking 10mm? Let me get a summary... BRB
On the 10mm sheet we have 10 rounds tested. Out of those only 2 were within 25 FPS (both 230's) and the remaining 8 were at least 50 FPS off. Out of those 8 we had 7 which were over 100 FPS off.
2 for 10 or 20%
If he printed accurate claims on his product and lowered price to a level competitive with Underwood, I might consider giving him some money. If he also made even an attempt at an apology or explanation, if he at least admitted that they were producing ammo that failed to meet claims, he would definitely have my business.
I think the velocity of several of his loads are actually better than Underwood because the bullet performs too poorly when pushed to the very bleeding edge of SAAMI spec. For example, the Double Tap 180 gr is at 1,200 fps, according to The Chart, while Underwood pushes theirs to 1,300 fps. In my no so expert opinion, 1,300 fps is too fast for a 180 gr but they seem to do well at 1,200 fps. That's still much faster than a .40 S&W can do but you get better performance and less recoil than you would if you pushed another 100 fps faster.
That picture proves that Glocks are the ugliest 10mm on the market lol.
Quote from: Raggedyman on January 15 2015 09:01:40 AM MST
If he printed accurate claims on his product and lowered price to a level competitive with Underwood, I might consider giving him some money. If he also made even an attempt at an apology or explanation, if he at least admitted that they were producing ammo that failed to meet claims, he would definitely have my business.
I think the velocity of several of his loads are actually better than Underwood because the bullet performs too poorly when pushed to the very bleeding edge of SAAMI spec. For example, the Double Tap 180 gr is at 1,200 fps, according to The Chart, while Underwood pushes theirs to 1,300 fps. In my no so expert opinion, 1,300 fps is too fast for a 180 gr but they seem to do well at 1,200 fps. That's still much faster than a .40 S&W can do but you get better performance and less recoil than you would if you pushed another 100 fps faster.
Underwood's ammo doesn't do too good in tnoutdours9's gel tests. Underwood is basically driving 40SW bullets 200+ fps faster than what they were designed for. You end up with jacket separation in some loads even with gold dots and minimal penetration in others. Factor in the recoil which increases the time it takes to make follow up shots and it's not the best ammo in the world for self defense or hunting, but velocity numbers sell ammo.
You are not wrong wadcutter.
Quote from: wadcutter on April 14 2015 06:49:55 AM MDT
Quote from: Raggedyman on January 15 2015 09:01:40 AM MST
If he printed accurate claims on his product and lowered price to a level competitive with Underwood, I might consider giving him some money. If he also made even an attempt at an apology or explanation, if he at least admitted that they were producing ammo that failed to meet claims, he would definitely have my business.
I think the velocity of several of his loads are actually better than Underwood because the bullet performs too poorly when pushed to the very bleeding edge of SAAMI spec. For example, the Double Tap 180 gr is at 1,200 fps, according to The Chart, while Underwood pushes theirs to 1,300 fps. In my no so expert opinion, 1,300 fps is too fast for a 180 gr but they seem to do well at 1,200 fps. That's still much faster than a .40 S&W can do but you get better performance and less recoil than you would if you pushed another 100 fps faster.
Underwood's ammo doesn't do too good in tnoutdours9's gel tests. Underwood is basically driving 40SW bullets 200+ fps faster than what they were designed for. You end up with jacket separation in some loads even with gold dots and minimal penetration in others. Factor in the recoil which increases the time it takes to make follow up shots and it's not the best ammo in the world for self defense or hunting, but velocity numbers sell ammo.
The 200 grain XTP's were designed by Hornady for 10mm, not .40 S&W.
They don't load the 200 grain XTP in .40.
The 155 grain XTP's are loaded by Hornady in both .40 and 10mm as you know, but I agree they don't load them as hot as Underwood as they don't want to exceed the threshold of the bullet.
Well there was a contractual run of 200 grain Gold Dots loaded in 40S&W, this was an ATK expired lot, they never sold in .40 Cal., the Speer expert said they were never release for production only a few thousand was sold out of 50,000 produced they were pulled and sold as such by RMR.
(http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/200GDHPsmaller-2_zps9jpvfvfo.jpg)
SPEER® LE GOLD DOT® DUTY AMMUNITION 40 S&W
Specifications:
Part Number: 53883
Bullet Style: GDHP
Caliber: 40 S&W
Test Barrel Length in Inches: 4
Bullet Weight (Grains/Grams): 200 / 12.96
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.21
Velocity in Feet Per Second
Muzzle:915
25: 898
50: 881
75: 866
100: 851
Data from the sample...
Speer 200 grain Gold Dot HP
Bullet Weight 202.4 gr - 198.4 gr
Bullet length 0.7000" - 0.6995" 0.6965"
Bullet diameter crimp line 0.3920"
Bullet Diameter shank base 0.4000" 0.3995"
HP Cavity 0.2165"
Yes these were intended for the law enforcement market. I would like to see them loaded in 10mm, but I wonder of they will stand up to real 10mm velocities?
I have some. I thought I sent them for gel.
That would be good to see. I wouldn't mind seeing Speer or someone else offering them in a factory load.
I'd be happy if Speer just offered them as components for handloaders... ;D