Interesting! I might have to try these 8)
http://www.underwoodammo.com/10mmauto140grainxtremepenetratorboxof20-1.aspx
(http://www.underwoodammo.com/images/products/thumb/10mm232.jpg)
http://www.underwoodammo.com/10mmauto140graincontrolledfracturinghollowpointboxof20.aspx
Both are pretty neat!
Did you see the other 140 gr with the 3 segmented petal HP?
QuoteUnderwood Ammo's 10mm 140gr Controlled Fracture round. Made with Lehigh Defense's Controlled Fracture Bullet, this round offers a sure-fire, replicable pattern every time. These bullets are solid copper and pre-stressed in three particular areas to allow the petals to separate from the bullet base. At the specified penetration depth, the petals separate from the base, releasing an energy spike, and expand from the primary path of the bullet. The bullet base continues penetrating in a deep straight line along the initial path.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/p526x296/10458370_657354524363923_2182558664809502171_n.jpg?oh=98ace64928349a2ee591200b0dd33de6&oe=54AF2AD4&__gda__=1424420234_fa0873948e0a7de046d00db642752b80)
Quote from: Intercooler on October 30 2014 06:54:42 PM MDT
Interesting! I might have to try these 8)
http://www.underwoodammo.com/10mmauto140grainxtremepenetratorboxof20-1.aspx
Jeff Quinn of Gunblast.com did some interesting ballistic testing of this Lehigh Defense projectile bout a month ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=betFqFCwcYo&list=UUjzurbOLJU1GWbO0n32IJNA
Although interesting novelty, at $1.70 & $1.80 per cartridge, believe I'll pass. Kind of sorry to see
Underwood finally marketing 10mm products at pricing levels right up there with Buffalo Bore & Double Tap.
Received them today:
(https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/r180/1376361_781122228592478_7904989345178609519_n.jpg?oh=4a4b39c9fde9e51b0c1b603ab8c26e60&oe=54F74792)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/r180/10003458_781122495259118_4810734654560532603_n.jpg?oh=ce52b12cd20d0ba8317976a319116492&oe=54E12AD9&__gda__=1423726626_43ed2d8fc23f0b0d816250091c2a3fcc)
Added the 180gr XTP as well:
(https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10246266_781121881925846_6943162224874988260_n.jpg?oh=42a83105ff774c17677c2ced592025e1&oe=54F4E4CF)
Nice, those look like they would screw things up! But phillips head is so old school, need Torx head... ;D
The others (CF HP's) could be called Triceratops or Tri-CrerFlops!
Both items from LeHigh Defense are supposed to be added to the catalog as component items for reloaders. Considering they are solid copper, you could use them in California for hunting deer in the lead free zones.
I don't know if carried by 6 or tried by 12 would be any better if you use these. Don't get me wrong in a gun fight there is but 1 rule win. But life in prison when you could have just used good Hollow Points to me would bet easier to win a case because every cop in the USA uses them. But I guess there isn't any difference in CorBons Glaciers or is there? Think I will wait until these are used and the person is tried before I will carry them. That was always the strong point of being the baby of 7 you get to learn from your brothers and sisters screw up. Mostly.
Honestly if these prove to be superior I'll carry them. I want the best thing I can possibly have. You had it right when you said the key was to win. Besides, chances are you'll never have to use your CCW in your life. I'm not worried about the courts. I always find it funny when someone I know is carrying FMJ or Federal classic or some generic crap. "But Gold Dots are expensive."
The xtreme penetrators are meant for the Handgun hunting crowd. The HP's are for defense. I wish they would make the 220gr they have for the .44mag in 10mm. I would give up some powder capacity for those puppies on a deer or elk. I think 1100fps could still be possible out of a 10mm case.
Dave;
Totally agree - I want to carry and keep the absolute best for self defense. My thought is if you can't afford the best, you REALLY can't afford the gun then! My God, what are you saving it for anyway??
Pat
Right on "if these prove to be superior" we'll all be caring them.
However at this point; interesting, expensive novelty.
Really looking forward to test results of these Lehigh projectiles in 10mm fired into calibrated ballistic gel (by people not trying to sell anything) using FBI protocols.
In the meantime several very well established projectile options; all with potential to be devastatingly effective in 10mm readily available.
I decided to play hooky today and have an extended range session. The weather doesn't look too good for a while and I deserve it ;D
As usual with just about all Underwood it meets or exceeds the rating. I'm betting these 140's are the same load/powder for both.
Underwood 140gr C.F. HP
EAA Elite Limited 4.75" 1602, 1571, 1549, 1570. Average = 1573 FPS/ 769 LBS
Underwood 140gr Xtreme P
EAA Elite Limited 4.75" 1586, 1591, 1575. Average = 1584 FPS/ 780 LBS
Underwood 180gr XTP
EAA Elite Limited 4.75" 1307, 1308, 1322. Average = 1312.33 FPS/ 688 LBS
Thats movin !
With what that 140gr Xtreme does... good enough for woods?
Quote from: Intercooler on November 07 2014 04:17:49 PM MST
As usual with just about all Underwood it meets or exceeds the rating. I'm betting these 140's are the same load/powder for both.
Underwood 140gr C.F. HP
EAA Elite Limited 4.75" 1602, 1571, 1549, 1570. Average = 1573 FPS/ 769 LBS
Underwood 140gr Xtreme P
EAA Elite Limited 4.75" 1586, 1591, 1575. Average = 1584 FPS/ 780 LBS
Underwood 180gr XTP
EAA Elite Limited 4.75" 1307, 1308, 1322. Average = 1312.33 FPS/ 688 LBS
That some very interesting numbers, you sending any for a look-n-see? I know they were special & expensive...
Absolutely! Power Pistol? Compressed?
Maybe not! Will have to droop it pants to find out if its got a PP! :o LOL ;D
I'm sending all the latest and greatest Monday. You should have it by Wednesday to see what's there.
Guess I'm just to old to go for the latest maybe greatest. I am lucky that I live about 20 miles from GT Distributors I get Gold Dots at cop prices. A box of 50 is $29 + tax. These do look nasty but many BGs has lost to the Gold Dot. To me proven means a lot. I am 53 this month worn out and I can still out run any gel block. Real life has a way of proving many things that look good in a lab and on paper to be not so great. ANYBODY that sees any shootings with this ammo needs to post the results. This concept is not new Agulia had a similar round in the early 90s but they were aluminum not copper light and very fast. They were not on the market long. I guess just like everything else time will prove if this is the magic bullet everyone wants. Velocities looked great but from Underwood that was to be expected. In my Witness full size I went with the 155gr XTP another bullet that has stood the test of time and of course from Underwood Ammo.
Would like to see a 200gr at 1200fps
Quote from: MT10mm on November 07 2014 07:37:00 PM MST
Would like to see a 200gr at 1200fps
MT10mm are you referring to one of these 100% copper bullets like the 40gr C.F. HP? In a 200gr. ???
That would be very hard to do as the copper being lighter would take up too much room inside the casing and not enough room for enough powder to make it work at proper pressures.
Here's a video where someone tested XP in .380. Would be a great woods load in 10mm I would think.
Quote from: The_Shadow on November 07 2014 07:51:45 PM MST
Quote from: MT10mm on November 07 2014 07:37:00 PM MST
Would like to see a 200gr at 1200fps
MT10mm are you referring to one of these 100% copper bullets like the 40gr C.F. HP? In a 200gr. ???
That would be very hard to do as the copper being lighter would take up too much room inside the casing and not enough room for enough powder to make it work at proper pressures.
I was, what about a 180gr?
The Shadow's pull-down will give us an idea. If it isn't too long and much like a FMJ, one with more weight like a 180gr might still be able to hit 1200 FPS.
They make a 240gr XP for the .44mag, it would be no problem for them to make a 200gr+ for the 10mm. It may need to sit deeper in the case, but I still strongly feel that 1100fps is possible.
Something we tend to forget, CA has been trying to get ALL lead based ammo banned. They will have a harder time with Pistol ammo, and are not all that far from a total ban on Lead Rifle rounds. They are halfway there with the ban on Lead for Hunting in certain areas. Right, Wrong, or Indifferent, having an alternative source of effective ammo is a solid idea. One of the Gun magazines from the 70's gave instructions of casting Zinc for use in Police firearms. Cutting Edge with their Copper and Brass machined projectiles were thought to just be gimmicks, but have proven not only for Long Range Accuracy, but effectiveness as well. I see no reason why the LeHigh Defense ammo can't be more than just a gimmick, but an effective ammo if you're in an area where PETA and the EPA have tried putting a strangle hold on our sporting lifestyles.
Besides, LeHigh Defense will be offering their XP components for Reloaders to load up how they see fit!
. Have there been any updates on the xtreme penatrators?
They have not released the .401 size Extreme Penetrators yet. At least their site does not reflect it yet.
Yehaw, I really wanted to see how these Lehigh loads work and how the "lite" 140.extreme penatrator works , hopefully better than the defunct extreme ammo fang face, and freedom rounds.
140gr moving nearly over 1500fps has got to be a good deer load as well! Talk about flat shooter with its ballistic coefficient.
How good could the BC of 140 grain 40 cal bullet possibly be?
Probably closer to .100 than to .200, but certainly less than .200 ???
I hope to test the fragmenting one next time I go out. Been meaning to since Intercooler sent it but other stuff keeps getting in the way.
As for the penetrator, we're gonna need a bigger block, to paraphrase Jaws.
Its long copper bullet
I like this round and the XP concept all around. I recently wrote Lehigh Defense suggesting this style of projectile but in the form of a 12 GA slug... but I digress.
I am a firm believer that the application determines the tool to be used. I have several options for ccw but one of them is the G20 with these XPs.
When I am out riding the Harley in the middle of nowhere, it feels good to have the 10mmXPs by your side. You never know what you will come up on out there, human, animal or mechanical (I've had A-holes try to run me off the road.) and there is no civilization near you. The versatility of this round to penetrate far and do some degree damage along the way makes this an appealing ride companion for exploring the long, high roads of the Colorado Rockies.
Underwood 140 grain xtreme penetrator - 10mm 140 grain, fired from a G20SF with OEM 4.6" barrel, 22# spring over SS guide rod, 10' from Shooting Chrony recorded an average velocity of 1,447 fps, for 651 lb-ft of kinetic energy.
This isn't terrible for a 10mm load, but it's not anywhere close to other Underwood loads I've tested. I have noticed all the "xtreme penetrator" rounds seem to be loaded down from other bullets in similar weights.
By comparison, Underwood 10mm 155 grain JHP blasted from the OEM barrel G20SF at 1,524 fps average for 800 lb-ft of kinetic energy. and from the G29SF 3.6" barrel at 1,434 fps average for 708 lb-ft of kinetic energy.
Considering what Liberty is doing with ultralight 10mm loads, one would think Underwood would push the 140 grain slug as fast as possible....and clearly 1,447 average from a G20 isn't that.
Quote from: Intercooler on November 07 2014 04:17:49 PM MST
Underwood 140gr Xtreme P
EAA Elite Limited 4.75" 1586, 1591, 1575. Average = 1584 FPS/ 780 LBS
Quote from: kilibreaux on March 25 2015 03:07:09 AM MDT
Underwood 140 grain xtreme penetrator - 10mm 140 grain, fired from a G20SF with OEM 4.6" barrel, 22# spring over SS guide rod, 10' from Shooting Chrony recorded an average velocity of 1,447 fps, for 651 lb-ft of kinetic energy.
That is a very big difference in velocity...
When we are talking about the 140's are you factoring in the longer bullet? I think being all copper it's longer, giving less space for powder.
What would the wound channel width be with these in the 10mm? I would like to use these for deer but I don't know if it would be a good round. I know the penetration is there but is that all?
Quote from: Gen4G20 on November 05 2015 06:51:36 PM MST
What would the wound channel width be with these in the 10mm? I would like to use these for deer but I don't know if it would be a good round. I know the penetration is there but is that all?
About the same as a full metal jacket. Maybe a bit more.
This design originated I believe with Polycase. Their bullets are made from copper powder and epoxy resin, and therefore won't expand. This was an attempt to get some additional damage from a non-expanding bullet. And it gives just a little bit more over FMJ.
But the little bit more on average had them overlapping with FMJ. In other words, the 4 biggest wound cavities with FMJ out of twenty shots will be bigger than the 4 smallest out of twenty with this round. (numbers made up to illustrate the point).
If you want a good hunting bullet, look to a good HP design. If you hunt in a lead free area, then the Barnes 155 grain is a better choice.
Here's a cool video of the 140 Ext Pen going through bullet proof glass.
Latest is their 115 grain Penetrator @ 1700 FPS. Every third round in my carry mags is one of these.. it has been suggested that they can easily penetrate 3A Kevlar, which is why I carry them. Where I live a shoot is either righteous or not and this ammo is perfectly legal. It's also very likely the best thing going for the poor bastages in NJ, who cannot use hollowpoints
Quote from: kilibreaux on March 25 2015 03:07:09 AM MDT
Underwood 140 grain xtreme penetrator - 10mm 140 grain, fired from a G20SF with OEM 4.6" barrel, 22# spring over SS guide rod, 10' from Shooting Chrony recorded an average velocity of 1,447 fps, for 651 lb-ft of kinetic energy.
This isn't terrible for a 10mm load, but it's not anywhere close to other Underwood loads I've tested. I have noticed all the "xtreme penetrator" rounds seem to be loaded down from other bullets in similar weights.
By comparison, Underwood 10mm 155 grain JHP blasted from the OEM barrel G20SF at 1,524 fps average for 800 lb-ft of kinetic energy. and from the G29SF 3.6" barrel at 1,434 fps average for 708 lb-ft of kinetic energy.
Considering what Liberty is doing with ultralight 10mm loads, one would think Underwood would push the 140 grain slug as fast as possible....and clearly 1,447 average from a G20 isn't that.
Xtreme penetrators are solid copper and are much lighter then bullets using lead. To get the same grain weight, the bullets need to be bigger and as such, they use up more of the case capacity for powder, consequently they are slower then standard Underwood offerings. They still have some unique qualities and seem to be superior compared to standard loads for certain jobs, particularly against barriers, soft armor and bullet proof glass.
Quote from: Captain_Witness on January 16 2016 09:22:53 AM MST
Latest is their 115 grain Penetrator @ 1700 FPS. Every third round in my carry mags is one of these.. it has been suggested that they can easily penetrate 3A Kevlar, which is why I carry them. Where I live a shoot is either righteous or not and this ammo is perfectly legal. It's also very likely the best thing going for the poor bastages in NJ, who cannot use hollowpoints
I'm from New Jersey. These will most likely be my carry loads when I retire. As a law enforcement officer, upon retirement I will no longer be able to carry hollowpoints.
Quote from: 4949shooter on January 16 2016 02:27:16 PM MST
Quote from: Captain_Witness on January 16 2016 09:22:53 AM MST
Latest is their 115 grain Penetrator @ 1700 FPS. Every third round in my carry mags is one of these.. it has been suggested that they can easily penetrate 3A Kevlar, which is why I carry them. Where I live a shoot is either righteous or not and this ammo is perfectly legal. It's also very likely the best thing going for the poor bastages in NJ, who cannot use hollowpoints
I'm from New Jersey. These will most likely be my carry loads when I retire. As a law enforcement officer, upon retirement I will no longer be able to carry hollowpoints.
Do they not allow civis to carry hollow points in NJ?
Quote from: 4949shooter on January 16 2016 02:27:16 PM MST
I'm from New Jersey. These will most likely be my carry loads when I retire. As a law enforcement officer, upon retirement I will no longer be able to carry hollowpoints.
Not entirely true... As ex Leo you can carry hp's under hr218 in NJ
Quote from: tommac919 on January 16 2016 07:03:19 PM MST
Quote from: 4949shooter on January 16 2016 02:27:16 PM MST
I'm from New Jersey. These will most likely be my carry loads when I retire. As a law enforcement officer, upon retirement I will no longer be able to carry hollowpoints.
Not entirely true... As ex Leo you can carry hp's under hr218 in NJ
Out of state officers can carry hollowpoints in NJ as per HR 218. NJ regulates it's own retired officers by permit, which does not allow for the carry of hollowpoints.
Quote from: 4949shooter on January 16 2016 08:57:51 PM MST
Out of state officers can carry hollowpoints in NJ as per HR 218. NJ regulates it's own retired officers by permit, which does not allow for the carry of hollowpoints.
So hr218 doesn't apply inside the state to retired Leos of that state !? But allows you to carry HP outside in other states.... Did not know. Maybe a good choice as a 3rd round in the stack then. BTW, that sucks.
Quote from: tommac919 on January 17 2016 09:00:31 AM MST
Quote from: 4949shooter on January 16 2016 08:57:51 PM MST
Out of state officers can carry hollowpoints in NJ as per HR 218. NJ regulates it's own retired officers by permit, which does not allow for the carry of hollowpoints.
So hr218 doesn't apply inside the state to retired Leos of that state !? But allows you to carry HP outside in other states.... Did not know. Maybe a good choice as a 3rd round in the stack then. BTW, that sucks.
Unfortunately this hasn't been challenged in the courts here. It is a ridiculous law.