Just so you know...This is what I asked Underwood today...
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 1:10 PM
To: sales@underwoodammo.com
Subject: Contact Us Submitted
Comments or Questions: One question, does your 10mm ammo fit the SAAMI pressure 37,500 psi and the MAP?
Thanks
Wade
QuoteCody Craig <sales@underwoodammo.com>
Yes, it is at the top of SAAMI's specifications, but it is still in SAAMI's specifications.
Mrs. Cody Craig
618-965-2109
hannah@underwoodammo.com
It would be interesting to see the actual test data ;)
Yes, it would be great to see an actual test report! If it were independent lab or even Kevin's own work, seeing the pressure curve data would be a big relief to many and might stimulate more people to try and use his products.
However, what I gathered from people using the QuickLoad program, shows pressures above the SAAMI MAP. ???
These included; 9.4 grains LongShot @ 58,823 psi, 10.5 grains Blue Dot @ 42,628 psi and 12.6 grains AA#9 @ 60,093 psi with the 200 Grain XTP.
The Quick Loads program doesn't have IMR800X in its database, it is possible some things in the program could be off and skewing the data. ???
Contact Us Submitted answered by Brooke Hancock <sales@underwoodammo.com> sent me another reply about my request for Ammo Specs.
QuoteAll of our ammunition is loaded within SAAMI specifications. Albeit, at the top end of the specs, but still within. If you have any questions or need anything else, please let me know.
The 10mm barrel for my Encore is in the build stage, and I have a strain gauge setup for reading pressure. I'm looking forward to seeing that curve, as well as matching the curve by setting powder parameters in Quickload. There is no way Quickload is accurate as is for Longshot powder. Might try to create an 800x profile as well.
The Quickload program has largely replaced reloading manuals for my use, and for the wildcats, i have no other choice. It would be nice for my use to extend that to the 10mm, but time will tell.
Greg
Yea, I'm looking at the "NEW" CFE pistol loads, and the ones I've tried show better velocity than Hodgdon's annual manual and even testing it with the 9x25 Dillon, but LongShot still achieves more velocity...but I'm working blindly and slowly.
It would be nice if and when QL updates the programs...Good luck with the pressure testing. The strain gauge method is useful when calibrated properly.
This is relevant to my interests.
Quote from: The_Shadow on July 11 2014 09:30:19 AM MDT
However, what I gathered from people using the QuickLoad program, shows pressures above the SAAMI MAP. ???
These included; 9.4 grains LongShot @ 58,823 psi, 10.5 grains Blue Dot @ 42,628 psi and 12.6 grains AA#9 @ 60,093 psi with the 200 Grain XTP.
Keep in mind that Quickload generally gives
very conservative results. IMO most Quickload pressure data is a rough estimation of the worst case scenario, and nothing more.
If you consider the complex mathematics and the positively gargantuan data set that would be required to accurately model conditions inside a cartridge as the powder ignites, it's clear that Quickloads couldn't reasonably be expected to do anything more than that.
QuickLoad is a great tool, but it doesn't do so well with the pistol cartridges. I cannot claim to know why, but that warning comes with the program.
The program isn't static. You measure a fired case full of water to determine capacity. You adjust start pressure, can modify grooves, lands number, type, and size. Sure there is complicated math, and it is just a model, but I expect velocities within 100fps with rifle cartridges when dialed in for a specific gun. Powder lots vary, primers too, and lot to lot variation in bullets all change things. It gives great info for adjusting seating depth and how barrel length changes velocity estimates. The program allows for temperature input so you can get an idea of the way a warm load at 60 degrees will handle 85 degrees. Complicated math, yes, and it allows input for a huge number of the variables in that math.
I'd have a hard time getting along without it now. I have a lot of trust in it with rifle cartridges, and I run barrels down to 9" in centerfire bottleneck cartridges. Its as good as it gets for wildcats for beginning load development.
Greg
I didn't mean to imply that one shouldn't use it; just that it probably isn't definitive on the subject of pressure, especially if a load is close to the SAAMI limit.
Quote from: Raggedyman on July 16 2014 11:40:20 PM MDT
I didn't mean to imply that one shouldn't use it; just that it probably isn't definitive on the subject of pressure, especially if a load is close to the SAAMI limit.
I guess my point was that its not a reloading manual. It is a tool that must be used with a crony to be at its best. If the work is done to tweak the settings, it certainly does do a great job of predicting pressure/velocity of rifle cartridges. IMO, it does better than the current loading manuals that are created by lawyers and max loads are lower and lower with every new edition.
For 10mm, the above doesn't apply across all propellents. Pistol power is ok, Longshot is way off for pressure, but is fairly close on velocity, and 800x isn't present in the database at all. For me, that has some separation anxiety not being able to use the program.
An article:
http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/test-quickload-review/ (http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/test-quickload-review/)
Greg
Gotcha. Like most things in life, it's not perfect but a great tool to have in your tool box if you keep things in perspective.