I'm making this topic over here since it is not getting much exposure on the range report forum.
Range report 1:
Put 75 rounds of Double Tap 200 grain Noslers and hard casts through it and my KKM barrel. Very, very accurate. But I had 2 failures.
Description of these failures: case ejected properly, slide locked rearward. All you gotta do is pull back on the slide and release to fix it...
Range report 2:
Threw a 3020-2 extended slide stop lever on. No more slide lock back malfunctions after 105 rounds of the same ammo.
But this time I had 3 FTF's where the next cartridge was stuck going into the barrel. I see these same exact failures all over this website. I marked the two culprit magazines. The gun was also shooting an inch left at 10 yards...upon further examination the rear sight was slightly left on the night sights I added between today and the first trip. Fixed that.
So I'm wondering if the new failures were magazine spring related? The cartridges were slightly crooked coming out of the magazine where they were stuck.
Range trip 3
This time with extra power mag springs. Same deal with the FTF's. I have Gen 4 extra power RSA's on backorder from Glockmeister...does anybody else make them for the Gen 4?
And with the extra power mag springs I have a new issue...slide locking back on the last round.
Not to mention brass lands 20 feet away...but that has been happening from day 1. I REALLY want to try an extra power RSA.
Did you use the Wolff 10% springs?
I only have issues with the last round feeding from mine. Slide locks back as if the mag is empty. I can use the slide stop lever or sling shot that last round into battery.
Quote from: PandaBear on March 26 2014 11:10:37 AM MDT
Did you use the Wolff 10% springs?
I only have issues with the last round feeding from mine. Slide locks back as if the mag is empty. I can use the slide stop lever or sling shot that last round into battery.
Yes.
You've probably read through Panda and my thread here already. Curious: What do your stock mag springs measure from the point of the V in the first V of the spring to the other end?
Wolff 10% springs are longer than the standard Glock ones.
Were the failure to feed with the stock barrel or the KKM?
Lonewolf makes an adaptor for a Gen 3 spring to be fitted into a Gen 4 gun. I think some of the guys here have them. Other than that, to my knowledge Glockmeister is the only company making a dedicated Gen 4 RSA with heavier than stock weights.
Chucky, I will check when I'm home tomorrow.
4949, do you have links to the adapter and 22lb and 24lb RSAs? Im having trouble finding anything other than Glockmeister stuff for some reason...
I've only shot the KKM barrel. I intended to shoot the stock barrel but I keep forgetting to bring it. But the way the slide keeps catching the rounds before the mag has pushed em up all the way leads me to believe it is slide speed related and not barrel. But I still intend to test the stock barrel.
Try this link, Tom:
https://www.lonewolfdist.com/Products.aspx?CAT=83
Quote from: chucky2 on March 26 2014 02:08:38 PM MDT
You've probably read through Panda and my thread here already. Curious: What do your stock mag springs measure from the point of the V in the first V of the spring to the other end?
http://i.imgur.com/HE6EFXA.jpg
That's about a half inch longer than mine were. With my stock mag springs stretched to 6" my FTF was drastically, although not completely, reduced.
Man these Gen4's have problems, yikes! Got to wonder if Glock knows or if they think all is well or it's just an ammo problem every time. How is it possible ammo that works fine in Gen2/Gen3/Gen3SF's suddenly has all these problems in Gen4's?
Are the Gen3's good to go like the SF's? Local gun shop has a regular 20 Gen3...I like bigger grips. I ask this because if this Gen4 cant be fixed I'll have Glock replace it with another 9mm....and get the 20 from the shop.
I haven't heard of any problems with the standard Gen 3's.
Quote from: radiotom on March 28 2014 09:51:05 PM MDT
Are the Gen3's good to go like the SF's? Local gun shop has a regular 20 Gen3...I like bigger grips. I ask this because if this Gen4 cant be fixed I'll have Glock replace it with another 9mm....and get the 20 from the shop.
I had problems with my gen4. Bought a used gen 3 non SF and have yet to have an issue.
Tested the Parabellum Research 165 grain FMJ V-Supreme ammo today, 50 rounds...
My back is still a little sore, it went out last Friday, weather yesterday was horrendous, over 4"+ rain yesterday. Some of the ranges were closed; however I was able to get into one although it was sopping wet. Wind was stiff and moving clouds made some shots not register on the CHRONY.
Here are the results of the range trip, Glock 20 SF.
NO failures of any kind. I did fire 15, 5, 3, 2 from each of two different magazines.
Factory barrel/spring
1290, 1344, 1317, 1340, 1317, 1340, 1280, 1334, 1328, 1191,
1323, 1360, 1380, 1322, 1327, 1324, 1343, 1319, 1331
Factory Barrel Wolff Gun Springs 22lb non captive recoil rod and springs
1295, 1361, 1330, 1335, 1347, 1246, 1342, 1325, 1321, 1333,
1347, 1335, 1328, 1348, 1336, 1333, 1310, 1310
Those were the rounds that registered; I was sort of rushing through this, before anyone else showed up.
Case expansion was 04330"- 0.4340", typical of Glock Factory Barrels.
However the main part of the testing was gun functions, I shot singles, double taps and triple taps, testing for any failures that could possibly cause a stoppage. However the Glock-20 SF pistol was flawless in stock configuration and with the use of the non captive Wolff recoil 22lb spring setup using different magazines, loaded with varying amounts of the ammo.
Quote from: radiotom on March 28 2014 09:51:05 PM MDT
Are the Gen3's good to go like the SF's? Local gun shop has a regular 20 Gen3...I like bigger grips. I ask this because if this Gen4 cant be fixed I'll have Glock replace it with another 9mm....and get the 20 from the shop.
Glock replaced my Gen4 20 with a Gen3 20 (regular frame, not SF) at my request. The Gen3 has been flawless.
I just sent Glock a letter, trying to get them looking in to the issues so many are having with the Glock Gen4's. While the Gen 3's and SF models have been much better, there has to be a solution that can be applied to remedy these issues.
Here is what I sent...
QuoteI am a moderator on the 10mmFirearms.com website and frequent various other related sites and it seem there are many experiencing issues with the newer Generation 4 pistols. My interest is with the Glock 20 gen4, trying to help people all over understand/diagnose the issues they are experiencing.
What I think needs to happen is for Glock to setup and observe these issues with the Glock 20 4th generations, using high speed cameras, playback in slow motion, and look for frame flexing, parts bouncing/moving under recoil or other induced stresses with real 10mm ammo, not the stuff at 40S&W ballistics.
I have to wonder if the "new frame design" that uses the various grip inserts, has caused a flexing of the frame with the higher impulsed ammo... ??? Is it flexing causing drag on the slide? Looking for wear on the rails that the slide rides on, may not show up right away if the flex is bowing the frame up or down between the rails.
Then there is the current RSA which is also "new to the 4th Gen", is it part of the problems that so many people are having.
Is it enough for the control of the slide speeds? Is it too much and causing a flex of the frame?
Why is it that the last round is staying in the magazine and not being picked up by the returning slide? Is the slide stop not being held in proper location or is it bouncing at the time the round is trying to pop up, to cause the slide to lock open with rounds in the magazine. (BTW, this was noticed by S&W in their slow motion playback of video, during the development of the 10XX series.)
There has to be a solution, to solve the issues being seen by so many Glock customers! Glocks are great pistols but the latest gen4's have many disgusted.
The Gen 3's have run mostly without issues, my G-20SF has run flawlessly in stock configuration and even with the Wolff 22 non captive recoil rod & 22lb spring, it has also runs well with the LWD 6" 9x25Dillon barrel as tested also. My G-29 also runs flawlessly.
Please find a solution to fix these great pistols...
Thanks,
Wade
Hopefully this will not fall on deaf ears, we need a reliable pistol that we can trust to work every time!
Nicely put!
I am tired of having my last round in the mag not feed. I will likely give Glock a call if the Wolff 10% spring doesn't fix the problem.
All glock owners will problems with their 4th gens need to bugging them till they get it fixed.
Quote from: The_Shadow on March 31 2014 01:15:38 PM MDT
I just sent Glock a letter, trying to get them looking in to the issues so many are having with the Glock Gen4's. While the Gen 3's and SF models have been much better, there has to be a solution that can be applied to remedy these issues.
Here is what I sent...
QuoteI am a moderator on the 10mmFirearms.com website and frequent various other related sites and it seem there are many experiencing issues with the newer Generation 4 pistols. My interest is with the Glock 20 gen4, trying to help people all over understand/diagnose the issues they are experiencing.
What I think needs to happen is for Glock to setup and observe these issues with the Glock 20 4th generations, using high speed cameras, playback in slow motion, and look for frame flexing, parts bouncing/moving under recoil or other induced stresses with real 10mm ammo, not the stuff at 40S&W ballistics.
I have to wonder if the "new frame design" that uses the various grip inserts, has caused a flexing of the frame with the higher impulsed ammo... ??? Is it flexing causing drag on the slide? Looking for wear on the rails that the slide rides on, may not show up right away if the flex is bowing the frame up or down between the rails.
Then there is the current RSA which is also "new to the 4th Gen", is it part of the problems that so many people are having.
Is it enough for the control of the slide speeds? Is it too much and causing a flex of the frame?
Why is it that the last round is staying in the magazine and not being picked up by the returning slide? Is the slide stop not being held in proper location or is it bouncing at the time the round is trying to pop up, to cause the slide to lock open with rounds in the magazine. (BTW, this was noticed by S&W in their slow motion playback of video, during the development of the 10XX series.)
There has to be a solution, to solve the issues being seen by so many Glock customers! Glocks are great pistols but the latest gen4's have many disgusted.
The Gen 3's have run mostly without issues, my G-20SF has run flawlessly in stock configuration and even with the Wolff 22 non captive recoil rod & 22lb spring, it has also runs well with the LWD 6" 9x25Dillon barrel as tested also. My G-29 also runs flawlessly.
Please find a solution to fix these great pistols...
Thanks,
Wade
Hopefully this will not fall on deaf ears, we need a reliable pistol that we can trust to work every time!
did you get any reply from them?
Brian
Nada, Nothing, Zilch...No Response at all yet! :(
Got a reply from the guy I e-mailed but he called me, and I don't have time to call him back. I'll e-mail him back later today when I get un-insane here, but my start of next week will be a disaster also, so I have no idea when I'll get back in touch with him. I really hope he was calling me back to either say they are going to take a real look into the issue, or, call me back with questions about posting here. If he is calling me back to say it's an ammo problem, then...that's a problem. I think we've pretty much established at this point, this isn't an ammo issue.
Quote from: PandaBear on March 31 2014 01:31:28 PM MDT
Nicely put!
I am tired of having my last round in the mag not feed. I will likely give Glock a call if the Wolff 10% spring doesn't fix the problem.
IS this out of a g4 or g3? Any updates/results? My last round doesn't feed either in g3 with 21 lb spring on steel rod.
^Fully stock Gen 4.
Quote from: The_Shadow on April 04 2014 10:25:59 AM MDT
Nada, Nothing, Zilch...No Response at all yet! :(
that's crazy. Yeah let's ignore it and it will go away.
Quote from: n2horns on April 04 2014 05:28:05 PM MDT
Quote from: PandaBear on March 31 2014 01:31:28 PM MDT
Nicely put!
I am tired of having my last round in the mag not feed. I will likely give Glock a call if the Wolff 10% spring doesn't fix the problem.
IS this out of a g4 or g3? Any updates/results? My last round doesn't feed either in g3 with 21 lb spring on steel rod.
I had same problem. With my G 20sf gen 3 . Last round left in mag with slide back. But it's been much better since I changed thing. No problems in the last few hundred rounds .. i had a nice long post about what I did if you want to look it up.
brian
Bought a new G20 SF and stuck a 24lb Wolff spring in it. Shot a bunch of 10mm today, recovered 159 brass cases. My wrist hurts... ;D
1 FTF on DT 200grain, I 100% knew I was limp wristing that particular shot. Not worried.
1 FTF on the last mag of that new Underwood 180 Gold Dot. Probably limp wristed...that Underwood is serious business.... my wrists were really tired by the end and that was the last mag I shot.
1 slide lock back before feeding the last round of DT 200grain. I'm sure that's magazine related. (shot 5 different magazines at least twice each I believe and that's the only time it happened)
The brass wasn't getting launched 20 feet either. Probably more like 6-8 feet. When I had the 24lb Lone Wolf spring + adapter in the Gen 4 it would still go 20 feet just like with the stock Gen 4 spring.
All in all, much much much much much better than the Gen4. I'm calling Glock to send that pos back.
Would have been nice not to have any failures, but i know that I wasn't doing my part on that one shot, and also towards the end...
I've seen discussion on this website about frame flexing possibly being the problem...I think you guys are onto something with that. This is my first Gen 3 and the frame seems much harder and beefier than the Gen 4's. I've had failures with the Gen 4 where I most certainly was NOT limp wristing. Perhaps this makes it less tolerant of a loose grip than the Gen 3? If so, that is ridiculous. You are not going to have a perfect grip and posture in a defensive situation.
Good choice on the Gen 3. I am glad it is working out for you.
Got a question for you guys. Why did Wolff send me a firing pin spring with my recoil spring?
Wolff always sends the striker spring or firing pin spring with an order, the difference is explained below... If you experience light strikes to the primer without ignition you may need a new striker spring.
If you have a hammer fired pistol and experience drag or pin wipe on the primers during firing a new spring may help.
Hey look at this way, even if you don't use it, you have a replacement in hand.
STRIKER SPRINGS
Fits All Glock Models
W. C. Wolff Company offers reduced power, factory standard, and extra power striker springs (firing pin springs) for Glock pistols. This spring will help improve the trigger pull.
Warning: This spring is for competition use only - not for duty use.
Warning: Do not use extra power striker spring with reduced power recoil springs.
Reduced Power....: 4, 4.5 and 5 Lb.
Factory Standard..: 5.5 Lb.
Extra Power.........: 6 Lb.
In their FAQ's...http://www.gunsprings.com/faq (http://www.gunsprings.com/faq)
9. What is the difference between a firing pin spring and a striker spring?
A firing pin spring is actually a return spring as it returns and keeps the firing pin retracted. The firing pin spring works in front of the firing pin pushing the firing pin away from the primer usually keeping it retracted in the slide. When the firing pin is struck by the hammer the impact force of the hammer overcomes the retraction force of firing pin spring and drives the firing pin into the primer.
A striker spring is actually the spring that causes the firing pin to striker the primer. The striker spring works behind the firing pin. When the gun is in the cocked position, the striker spring is compressed behind the firing pin. When the trigger is pulled the firing pin is released and the striker spring pushes the firing pin into the primer. While technically incorrect, a striker spring is often referred to as a firing pin spring.
Shadow thanks for the clarification. The firing pin springs have been confusing to me.
Your welcome, its all about learning and knowing how things works, the ultimate goal is Safety! 8)
Shadow, I'm not complaining that they are including it, I actually appreciate it, and I understand it's purpose, I'm just wondering why they do it. It costs them(me too) more to include it and I don't think anybody would complain if they didn't...there must be a reason they go out of their way to do this?
2 range trips with the Gen 3 today...one was a massive failure the other was great.
Trip 1: fired 4 magazines of DT, each had at least 2 FTFs...some were so bad that the round was vertical in the magazine.
I suspected that the Wolff recoil spring was the problem because it wasn't as hard to rack the slide today (only fired 159 rounds...wtf?) I returned the gun to stock recoil spring and stock barrel for range trip 2.
Trip 2: 6 magazines of DT...no problems.
I will be carrying this gun in stock configuration. I will also make another range trip tomorrow... ;D
And I just bought some backup SP05586 recoil springs off of Midway...
Went to the range this weekend with a buddy. G20 g3, kkm, and updated to 22 lb stainless steel rod with new slide stop lever. No FTF from my use or my buddy. We ran Remington 180, Underwood 165 TMJ and BB 180 JHP. No issues and the slide stop with 22 lb seemed to cure my issue. Went to Glockmiester and the guy said hmm yeah go to 22lb and replace the slide stop lever.
have fun!
Shot another 112 rounds stock out of the SF...all good.
www.glockstore.com has dedicated gen 4 dual recoil springs, however for higher power ones they are under the competition ones but only offered in the little Glocks 29/30/36
Update: I've gone to the range 3 more times since my last post. All 3 times with the Gen 3 SF in stock configuration....no problems with Underwood 180 Gold Dots and Double Tap 200 grain Noslers and Hardcasts.
So stock G3, no issues. Congrats!
Guys,
Was following this thread and I have a new Glock 20 Gen 4 I purchased a while back. I took it to the range this past week and fired about 250 rounds through it. I have a 6" KKM barrel and added the extended slide release and upgraded the sights. I bought a new 22lb spring from Glockmeister recently but when I went to the range I left the stock spring in. I shot about (50) PPU 10mm rounds (weak ass rounds) and then shot (200) 10mm loads I had worked up myself.
I have to say I didn't have a single FTF or any issues at all. I'm running the stock 15 round Glock mags since I've seen problems with the 10 round mags feeding for many people. But again, so far had no problems feeding. My reloads were using Hornady XTP 180 grain hollow points and also some were loaded with 180 grain Xtreme Flat nose copper plated bullets. Next trip out I'm going to swap out the factory spring for the 22lb Glockmeister spring and see how that does.
One thing to note is I polish all my feed ramps on my automatic pistols to help the feeding process and to reduce hang ups. Since I was working up some 10mm loads, my charges went from light to very stout and no problems with any feeding.
Midwest, that's good to know. I too have a G20 gen4 with approx 400 rounds now through it. It has always cycled the weaker stuff & Double Tap 200 WFNGC fine, but early on I had many FTF's with Underwood 180 & 200 tmj's. At first, a lot of problems, particularly with the 180's. This seemed to be consistent with other posts here. I started to try heavier RSA's but decided to shoot it stock for a little longer. First the FTF with the 200's declined, then 180's. Last time out I shot a box each of UW 180 & 200 tmj's with no problems at all. I know - not the largest sample size, but it definitely seems things are improving greatly as the gun gets broken in. I sure hope this trend continues as I absolutely love the 10mm round and the G20 platform.
Just my experiences - interested if others who have had problems with Gen4s have seen a decline in those issues as round count increased.
Yah, knock on wood, my G20 Gen4 is working the way it's suppose too. The Glocks are pretty loose tolerances compared to most steel frame guns and as mentioned earlier in this post the lower frame flexing could be some of the issue. I noticed on my Gen4 that with the gun assembled, the lower receiver is actually bending or flexing from the pressure of the spring. This has to make me wonder about the alinement of the rails during cycling and if their might be some binding going on especially under heavy loads. I also think there's an issue with the 10 round mags feeding properly in the G20's. But so far mine's working and I'm hoping it stays that away. It will be interesting to see if the 22lb spring works as well or creates any issues. I'll find out the next trip to the range for sure.